Immortal soul a lie?

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Gary51

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Hi. Identify the "Rich-Man" and you identify the "anti-christ". :wave:

Luke 16:19 A-Man/anqrwpoV, yet any/tiV <5100>, was Rich and Clothed/enedidusketo <1737> (5710) purple/porfuran <4209> and busson <1040> making-merry down to a-day, splendidly/lamprwV <2988>

Mark 15:17 And they are clothing/enduousin <1746> (5719) of-Him purple/porfuran <4209>, and are planting to Him braiding thorny crown.
Well that really explains it... that's really made me see how your mind works.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Well that really explains it... that's really made me see how your mind works.
Mind and Spirit working together. :)
Remember "judas"? His name comes from the same greek word as "judah", and Jesus calls him "comrade" which is also used in Matt 22:12.

Matthew 22:12 And He is saying to him, Comrade/Friend/etaire <2083> , how you enter here not having garment/enduma <1742> of wedding-feast? And he was speechless.

Matthew 26:50 and Jesus said to him, `Comrade/Friend/etaire <2083>, for what art thou present?' Then having come near, they laid hands on Jesus, and took hold on him.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Well that really explains it... that's really made me see how your mind works.
Mind and Spirit working together. :)
Remember "judas"? His name comes from the same greek was as "judah" and Jesus calls him "comrade" which is also used in Matt 22:12.

Matthew 22:12 And He is saying to him, Comrade/Friend/etaire <2083> , how you enter here not having garment/enduma <1742> of wedding-feast? And he was speechless.

Matthew 26:50 and Jesus said to him, `Comrade/Friend/etaire <2083>, for what art thou present?' Then having come near, they laid hands on Jesus, and took hold on him.
 
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Fireinfolding

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Heres a post written by Angelmom on Lazarus and the Rich man as well.

Lazarus and the rich man - Foru.ms Forums

Just post the link so someone can get a better idea where shes coming from. Though she has added to it I believe.

Peace

Fireinfolding
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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sawdust

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For those who remain unconvinced that it is a parable, turn to Mark 4:33-34. These two verses describe the pattern Christ always used to teach His disciples: “And with many such parables spoke He the word unto them, as they were able to hear it. But without a parable spoke He not unto them: and when they were alone, He expounded all things to His disciples.” Christ continually used parables to teach.

Show me one parable Christ did not use realities as the basis of His stories and I might read the rest of your posts.

peace
 
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sawdust

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The “soul” is the life in a person, and this can only be a reference to eternal life, because any man can take the physical life of another human being.


Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. Jn.17:3

It is not eternal life the soul has. The life it has is immortal (which is why it cannot be taken from them by another creature) not eternal. No-one receives eternal life until they believe in the Lord Jesus.

peace
 
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jesusfreak3786

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Leave this world physically is to step into eternity. Non stop.

Forgive me...
Do you have anything to offer towards this discussion other than your own opinion? Where is the scriptural references to this, or real life application, or facts or anything?
 
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sawdust

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Both. Maybe there isn't a need in your opinion, but God addresses the matter Himself.
Then what can I do when God rises up?
And when he calls for an accounting, what can I answer him? JOB 31:14
Why is it that the wicked one has disrespected God?
He has said in his heart: “You will not require an accounting. PSALMS 10:13
Therefore this is what Jehovah of armies has said: “Here I am smelting them, and I have to examine them, because how otherwise shall I act on account of the daughter of my people? Their tongue is a slaughtering arrow. Deception is what it has spoken. With his mouth, peace is what [a person] keeps speaking with his own companion; but within himself he sets his ambush.”
“Because of these things should I not hold an accounting with them?
JEREMIAH 9:7-9
And there is not a creation that is not manifest to his sight, but all things are naked and openly exposed to the eyes of him with whom we have an accounting HEBREWS 4:13
Because YOU do not continue running with them in this course to the same low sink of debauchery, they are puzzled and go on speaking abusively of YOU. But these people will render an account to the one ready to judge those living and those dead. 1 PETER 4:4-5
There are so many more verses that explain why the condemned will also be resurrected, that I fear they would overwhelm you, and you might not read them all.



Eventually they will be annihilated, but as you can see with the scripture above, they first have to answer to their sin.



This makes no sense, and is so unbelievably contradictory, that my brain hurts.




Also makes no sence, and honestly I can't remember a time that I didn't want to serve God.



If you are familiar with the terminology used in the time period this was written it would be immediately apparent. The term Torture, and tormentor meant VERY different things. Because torture had become such a common practice, jailers were referred to as tormentors. So with that understanding this verse is indicating that those who are thrown in the lake of fire are dead forever. that brings to light a verse that couples beautify with that understanding.
And death and Ha&#8242;des were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire. 15 Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire. REVELATION 20:14-15



As you can see here, it doesn't in fact mean that.

I got into this thread because I didn't understand where you were coming from. Now I don't know where you are going. :scratch:

I never said there was no resurrection of the dead unto condemnation. What I said was if one holds to your theology (that the soul is not immortal) there is no need for the second resurrection because the soul (along with body) would already be dead in the grave and the Lord is going to eventually throw death into the lake of fire. So why bring up the dead? What does it matter? If, according to you, they are completely unaware of anything why not just let "sleeping dogs lie"? That would be like waking a sleeping person to tell him he is asleep.

No-one answers for their sin. That is what Christ did on the Cross. What has to be answered for by each individual (believer and unbeliever alike) is their faith in Christ or the lack of it. Hence the Judgement Seat of Christ and the Great White Throne judgement.

peace
 
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mystery4

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I got into this thread because I didn't understand where you were coming from. Now I don't know where you are going. :scratch:

I never said there was no resurrection of the dead unto condemnation. What I said was if one holds to your theology (that the soul is not immortal) there is no need for the second resurrection because the soul (along with body) would already be dead in the grave and the Lord is going to eventually throw death into the lake of fire. So why bring up the dead? What does it matter? If, according to you, they are completely unaware of anything why not just let "sleeping dogs lie"? That would be like waking a sleeping person to tell him he is asleep.

No-one answers for their sin. That is what Christ did on the Cross. What has to be answered for by each individual (believer and unbeliever alike) is their faith in Christ or the lack of it. Hence the Judgement Seat of Christ and the Great White Throne judgement.

peace

I can understand your logic behind what you've said. I don't completely understand everything, but will help you to know where I am coming from (as this is the view I hold). To start off I will explain my view on conditional immortality, then in the next post I will try to explain from my reading of scripture why the unrighteous will be raised before being destroyed.

I believe in the garden of Eden, Adam and Eve were given conditional immortality. That is, they were to live forever provided they obeyed the commandments of God. Hence God told them

but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die (Gen 2:17)

However as we both know, they disobeyed God and rebelled against him, whether it be by deception or deliberate. What I find is interesting however is the fact that the only reason I know of that we are given for Adam and Eve not being allowed to re-enter the Garden of Eden is so they couldn't live forever.

Gen 3:22-4
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”
So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken.
After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

If you can find any other reason we are told about, for God tossing them out of the Garden of Eden, then please let me know as I would be interested to find out what it is.

One key thing I find here is that it was through eating the fruit of the tree of life that Adam and Eve had everlasting life. And apart from the few times its mentioned in Proverbs, the only time its mentioned is in Revelation. (Rev 2:7, 22:2, 14, 19)

The main time is in heaven where only the righteous are...

Rev 22:1-2
Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.

verses 14-5
“Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.
Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

Not only that, in 1 Tim 6:15-16 it says that God alone is immortal. Whether or not that means that its through the tree of life that the angels are able to live forever or not, or if God has devised some other way, I don't know.

Anyway this is a basic view of my understanding, there is far more to it. Feel free to question anything I've said and by all means check out any scripture I have quoted in context. And this is the background for answering your question.
 
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GenemZ

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Heres a post written by Angelmom on Lazarus and the Rich man as well.

Lazarus and the rich man - Foru.ms Forums

Just post the link so someone can get a better idea where shes coming from. Though she has added to it I believe.

Peace

Fireinfolding


She uses Luke 15 to make her point. The rich man and Lazarus are not mentioned in that chapter. Its a moot point.
 
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GenemZ

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Do you have anything to offer towards this discussion other than your own opinion? Where is the scriptural references to this, or real life application, or facts or anything?


If I may offer this rather salient point....

At the second resurrection? All unbelievers who DIED will appear before the Lord. Their souls did not cease existing when their bodies died.
 
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Fireinfolding

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She uses Luke 15 to make her point. The rich man and Lazarus are not mentioned in that chapter. Its a moot point.

I can never figure out what you are trying to say Genez. Please take up your "moots" with Angelmom when she gets here, shes certainly well equipped to handle them.

Mark 4:13 And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
 
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Fireinfolding

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If I may offer this rather salient point....

At the second resurrection? All unbelievers who DIED will appear before the Lord. Their souls did not cease existing when their bodies died.

Where is the word "second" ressurection?
 
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Gary51

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Where is the word "second" ressurection?
Rev 20:6
Blessed and holy is the one who takes part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

If there is a first then there must be a second. If there was only one resurrection, the passage would read...

Blessed and holy is the one who takes part in the resurrection.

By the way... where is the word "Trinity"?
 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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Do you have anything to offer towards this discussion other than your own opinion? Where is the scriptural references to this, or real life application, or facts or anything?

My opinion is not included in this discussion. I am merely echoing "The Church".

Forgive me...
 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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*OrthodoxyUSA unsubscribes in disgust over the subject and that the views of Non-Nicene "so called Christians" are being argued in a Nicene Forum.*

JW and Mormon views are NOT CHRISTIAN.

Forgive me...
 
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Gary51

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My opinion is not included in this discussion. I am merely echoing "The Church".

Forgive me...
The Church... The Church... The Church!!!!

Does your entire mindset echo The church... Is your church the ultimate truth? Is it above all other churches?

It seems The Church does your thinking for you. Do you even own a Bible? or do you rely on The Church to read it for you.

Who are you to say who is Christian? Do you think that you display a christian attitude?

You insult people and then run and hide, by claiming to unsubscribe. If you are unable to debate without throwing your toys out of the crib, maybe you should leave the site alltogether.
 
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OrthodoxyUSA

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The Church... The Church... The Church!!!!

Does your entire mindset echo The church... Is your church the ultimate truth? Is it above all other churches?

It seems The Church does your thinking for you. Do you even own a Bible? or do you rely on The Church to read it for you.

Who are you to say who is Christian? Do you think that you display a christian attitude?

You insult people and then run and hide, by claiming to unsubscribe. If you are unable to debate without throwing your toys out of the crib, maybe you should leave the site alltogether.

Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, "A Nicene Christian and member of The Church of Antioch, the first to be called Christian, the second oldest Christian community in the world with our parent Church being The Church of Jerusalem.", Yes, then "no response to your personal attack".

I'm not hiding. I have over 10000 posts, mostly in the GT and NT area, you are posting Non-Nicene Theology against The Church.

How can you offer your Amen if you do not understand it correctly? You disrespect the men that wrote that creed. It's our creed! Do you not think that we will be here to defend it?

There are many Nicene Churches.. but Muslims, JW and Mormonism are not among them, nor is their "other Gospel".

Forgive me...
 
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Gary51

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Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, "A Nicene Christian and member of The Church of Antioch, the first to be called Christian, the second oldest Christian community in the world with our parent Church being The Church of Jerusalem.", Yes, then "no response to your personal attack".

I'm not hiding. I have over 10000 posts, mostly in the GT and NT area, you are posting Non-Nicene Theology against The Church.

How can you offer your Amen if you do not understand it correctly? You disrespect the men that wrote that creed. It's our creed! Do you not think that we will be here to defend it?

There are many Nicene Churches.. but Muslims, JW and Mormonism are not among them, nor is their "other Gospel".

Forgive me...
So, you were not telling the truth about leaving this thread as you claimed. Isn't that missuse of the 9th commandment?

You seem to be your own worst enemy.

And there you go again telling others what they don't understand.

You really know how to get along with people don't you.

Again what right do you have to insult Mormons and JWs?
 
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