Immoral

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

To you, what makes something immoral?

 

[Madcoil]

Lack of personal profit.

 

[Ninja Turtles]

The only thing that pops in my head is Ali G.

What is legal?

What is illegal?

What is barely legal?

 

[James T]

Taking an action where the sole element is depriving another to the benefit of yourself where this benefit is not a requirement of life.

 

[sinner/SAVED]

Taking an action in direct opposition to universal ethics which apply to everyone in every moment.

 

[James T]

Taking an action in direct opposition to universal ethics which apply to everyone in every moment.

Define them.

Forget it, don't bother, they don't exist.

We define those we wish to follow. We are responsible for the results of our choices. We are responsible for correcting the errors we make. There are no cop-outs for personal responsibility in this, not even god.

 

[philN]

There is a fatal logical flaw with your argument.

If ethics are not universal or at least defined by a universal absolute, then how could someone make an error? You admit that there are errors, but if ethics are only defined personally, then why couldn't I change what my personal ethics, thereby undoing any errors I may have made.

If what you say is true, then a murderer who does not think murder is wrong is being completely moral when he kills a child. A rapist who does not think rape is wrong is being moral when he rapes helpless people.

How does that add up?

 

[James T]

There is a fatal logical flaw with your argument.

Unfortunately you are wrong.

If ethics are not universal or at least defined by a universal absolute, then how could someone make an error? You admit that there are errors, but if ethics are only defined personally, then why couldn't I change what my personal ethics, thereby undoing any errors I may have made.

People make errors every day. Sometimes these are errors they know to be errors by their own standards. Sometimes they consider the error being caught, when by society's standards they have made an error and been imprisioned. Sometimes their error is worse and they are reelected into power following it.

There have been various philosophical attempts to deal with identifying universal rules. The first difficulty is even demonstrating that universality is correct. One such rule is the golden rule, another is the universality one (in a different sense). These ignore the fact that human history is punctuated by individuals who have acted in ways that have changed history utterly who routinely violate these principals. Sometimes for the good, other times not.

I do note you claim universal ethics yet you do not state them. The reason for this is that for each you state there are usually examples of situations where you would prefer they did not apply. Or more commonly someone else is prepared to disagree with you as vehemently as you choose to believe in your position.

Even for one as simple as thou shalt not kill one is faced with numerous counter examples, some necessary to maintain your freedom, some necessary if you are going to have compassion.

If what you say is true, then a murderer who does not think murder is wrong is being completely moral when he kills a child. A rapist who does not think rape is wrong is being moral when he rapes helpless people.

At another site someone ran a poll on who had been raped. The numbers of women who said yes was disturbing.

Anyway the point is that people obviously consider US invasion of Iraq ethically correct so they voted GW back into power. The death toll in Iraq is not a number you routinely see, however I have heard it compared to the death toll in the Asian tsunami in terms that are of the same order of magnitude.

How does that add up?

The absolute worst case is for a large number of people to run around claiming that they have the right, the only, the correct morals and attempt to impose these on others.

The best case is for us to recognise that there are no absolutes, to take responsibility for our own actions and understand that improving our way of life involves understanding our actions for what they are, taking responsibility for our actions and for dealing with those compromises we must and to focus on improving the standards we fallible humans attempt to set.

 

[Shizzle]

what christ defined morality as

 

[Electric Skeptic]

what christ defined morality as

And what was that?

 

[crazyfingers]

To you, what makes something immoral?

Violating the rights of others
Failing to follow the Golden Rule

 

[Forest]

Taking an action where the sole element is depriving another to the benefit of yourself where this benefit is not a requirement of life.

But the question of the OP was what makes something immoral...or why is something immoral. You stated an instance of immoral action, but explain why that action is immoral.

 

[Forest]

Violating the rights of others
Failing to follow the Golden Rule

I agree that those are instances of acting imorally, but, the OP was asking what makes something immoral, or why is that immoral.

 

[Electric Skeptic]

Violating the rights of others
Failing to follow the Golden Rule

Where does he talk about "violating the rights of others"?

 

[Fear]

Whatever I decide is immoral, such as suicide bombing an ophanage after murdering a paralyzed war hero.

 

[Forest]

Whatever I decide is immoral, such as suicide bombing an ophanage after murdering a paralyzed war hero.

Do you think that whatever you decide is immoral, is immoral for other people too or just you?

 

[James T]

But the question of the OP was what makes something immoral...or why is something immoral. You stated an instance of immoral action, but explain why that action is immoral.

You have an agenda in your question, why not just front with it?

 

[Forest]

You have an agenda in your question, why not just front with it?

I have no "agenda". I think morality is measured by what the bible says. I do not think that morals are realtive to self, culture or society.

 

[James T]

I have no "agenda". I think morality is measured by what the bible says. I do not think that morals are realtive to self, culture or society.

Yes, I was pretty sure that your agenda was to refer back to the bible.

I don't really want to follow you down this route because you will not like where it takes us.

 

[Forest]

Yes, I was pretty sure that your agenda was to refer back to the bible.

I don't really want to follow you down this route because you will not like where it takes us.

Actually, I would like to know your and other's opinions, that way I can learn. I will probably disagee with you, but will neither like or dislike where it takes us, unless it takes us somewhere physically painful. (Like the last trip to the dentist I had to make.)