Immaculate Conception???

1stcenturylady

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This post is titled Immaculate Conception??? but the actual reason for my writing this is to correct the preconceived idea that caused the Romans Catholics to believe that it was necessary or fitting that Mary, herself, be born without sin, to bear Jesus. The fictional story that turned into a "holy tradition" was not necessary because Mary was a woman...

I also want to show why this is so important for us, so read to the end.

In the Garden of Eden, when Eve was deceived by the serpent and took a bite of the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, nothing happened to her. But when she gave the fruit to Adam and he took a bite, BOTH of their eyes were opened and they saw their nakedness.

Eve was deceived into thinking she would be like God, but Adam willfully sinned, knowing full well it was disobedience against God. This is why the original sin is always placed on Adam. And because Eve was deceived, God put the man as head over the woman. This is also why in the second commandment, Exodus 20:5 and Exodus 34:7, the mother is not mentioned, only the father. "For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me," Otherwise the commandment would have been "parents" to include the woman.

The theory of the immaculate conception is not found in scripture, but was thought up because of their human reasoning that the sins of the mother would have been passed on, when in actuality Jesus did not receive a carnal nature from His mother for the simple reason she was a woman, and with God as His Father, even as a child Jesus was sinless, therefore, even though He was tempted in all things, He never sinned.

This is also why God is always referred to as male, and not female, or even "it." It may also be why pagan religions have goddesses with a child. Satan counterfeits everything of God and reverses it, perverts it, or makes it upside down, like the upside down crucifix.

Now why is this important to us? Because when we are born again, we are born of God. Romans 6:2 says we are dead to sin. Romans 8:9 says we are not in the flesh/our carnal nature if we have the Holy Spirit in us (how we are born again). And this is why 1 John 3:5-9 is TRUTH we should test ourselves against:

5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Remember, that this life is our testing ground to be perfected. Hebrews 12:14 says "14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord"

Revelation 22:11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”
 
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1stcenturylady

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This is a bit like posting

A Bible With 66 Books??????

in the controversial theology forum.

Which forum should it go in? I don't understand your statement.

It is controversial
It is theology
 
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1stcenturylady

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I mean, it's official dogma in a Church that claims a billion lay people.

It is not scripturally confirmed. It is merely a "holy tradition" without authority, except in their own minds.
 
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1stcenturylady

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It's not Biblical. It's not necessary for the holiness/sinlessness/divinity of the Christ child either.

The WHY it was not necessary to make up the story in the first place is what this thread is suppose to be about. Did you read past the title?
 
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1stcenturylady

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chevyontheriver

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I edited my first paragraph because this post is not so much about story of the Immaculate Conception, but the REASON it was not necessary to make it up in the first place.
I have to hand it to you that you have come up with a novel interpretation.
 
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chevyontheriver

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That does not necessarily make it true. If Mary was sinless, she would not have spoken of "God MY Savior".
You do know that is easily answered? And that Catholics are aware of the Magnificat and how Mary calls God her savior? It's not like it is news to us, a surprise or anything. If you can't figure out on your own how Mary can both have a savior AND be sinless, then do ask me and I can explain it simply.
 
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chevyontheriver

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[Staff edit].

Still, it's the most novel disagreement with the Immaculate Conception I've ever seen, saying that sinfulness is only passed down from the father. The way I see it is that we all have hearts of darkness so we all pass it on.

Oh, and another thing before I forget. Catholic theology DOES NOT SAY that Mary had to be sinless for Jesus to be sinless. It only says it was 'fitting' that Mary be sinless, not that it is or was required or necessary. How might that factoid fit into your theory?
 
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Micah888

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If you can't figure out on your own how Mary can both have a savior AND be sinless, then do ask me and I can explain it simply.
There is nothing to figure out. Only the Lord Jesus Christ was sinless. For every other human being God says "ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God" and "that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God." (Rom 3:19,23).
 
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1stcenturylady

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Still, it's the most novel disagreement with the Immaculate Conception I've ever seen, saying that sinfulness is only passed down from the father. The way I see it is that we all have hearts of darkness so we all pass it on.

Oh, and another thing before I forget. Catholic theology DOES NOT SAY that Mary had to be sinless for Jesus to be sinless. It only says it was 'fitting' that Mary be sinless, not that it is or was required or necessary. How might that factoid fit into your theory?

It doesn't change a thing. Many things from God's point of view, like iniquity of the "father" is above our pay grade to understand, because they are symbolic. But we do know the hierarchy in God's eyes from that which is revealed in the New Testament. Christ over man. Man over woman. Woman over children.
 
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1stcenturylady

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[Staff edit].

The point I was ultimately trying to make was that WE can be sinless too. Did you understand that that was the main point. Like Jesus - we are born of God if we have been baptized in the Holy Spirit.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Still, it's the most novel disagreement with the Immaculate Conception I've ever seen, saying that sinfulness is only passed down from the father. The way I see it is that we all have hearts of darkness so we all pass it on.

Oh, and another thing before I forget. Catholic theology DOES NOT SAY that Mary had to be sinless for Jesus to be sinless. It only says it was 'fitting' that Mary be sinless, not that it is or was required or necessary. How might that factoid fit into your theory?

How does the belief that being born again is being born of God, thus making us sinless fit into Catholic theology?
 
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chevyontheriver

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It doesn't change a thing. Many things from God's point of view, like iniquity of the "father" is above our pay grade to understand, because they are symbolic. But we do know the hierarchy in God's eyes from that which is revealed in the New Testament. Christ over man. Man over woman. Woman over children.
Actually, given your premise of sin only being passed on by the male, it blows your particular novel argument against the Immaculate Conception back to the drawing board.

For if it is only 'fitting' in Catholic theology that Mary be sinless, and not 'required' that Mary be sinless, all you posted proves nothing about the Immaculate Conception. You would have to go back to the more 'traditional' Protestant prooftexts against the Immaculate Conception.

But I use the term 'traditional' in a more limited way because even Luther believed in the Immaculate Conception, so the modern Protestant view isn't really all that traditional.
 
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chevyontheriver

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How does the belief that being born again is being born of God, thus making us sinless fit into Catholic theology?
Well, I have yet to maintain being sinless for more than a few minutes. And the accumulated damage done in my soul of the sins I have committed continues to have bad effects on me. I have a savior who I have to turn to continually because aside from the moment after my baptism I have not been sinless.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Well, I have yet to maintain being sinless for more than a few minutes. And the accumulated damage done in my soul of the sins I have committed continues to have bad effects on me. I have a savior who I have to turn to continually because aside from the moment after my baptism I have not been sinless.

How do you understand 1 John 3:5-9 then?
 
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