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Immaculate Conception?

Standing Up

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Can you provide citations showing that they believed the blood was from the mother? Sounds like a classic straw man argument to me. Also, "blood from the father"? Aren't you replacing one (supposed) bad science for another? Blood comes from the bone marrow of the developing body of the child in the womb.
Google is your friend for blood and father.

John of Damascas was an advocate of the so-called pure blood of Mary producing Christ's pure blood.

but taking up His abode in the womb of the holy Virgin, He unreservedly in His own subsistence took upon Himself through the pure blood of the eternal Virgin a body of flesh animated with the spirit of reason and thought,
NPNF2-09. Hilary of Poitiers, John of Damascus - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

This thought continues through the present.

So, your sacrifice that washed away your sins, Mary's blood or God's blood?
 
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prodromos

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Google is your friend for blood and father.
I don't know what I'm supposed to be looking for. If you know then provide a link.
John of Damascas was an advocate of the so-called pure blood of Mary producing Christ's pure blood.

but taking up His abode in the womb of the holy Virgin, He unreservedly in His own subsistence took upon Himself through the pure blood of the eternal Virgin a body of flesh animated with the spirit of reason and thought,
NPNF2-09. Hilary of Poitiers, John of Damascus - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

This thought continues through the present.
The mother's blood provides everything that the baby needs to grow in the womb, oxygen, nutrients, etc via the placenta, so there is nothing intrinsically wrong with his statement.
 
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Galilee63

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There were Holy Books of which God our Creator gave to Holy Blessed Ezra with God saying to Ezra to keep aside. These were for the wise among His People. There were parts of God's Holy Word kept aside by Roman Catholics - Saint Peter onwards. These were not disclosed.

In relation to our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary - God chose our Heavenly Mother Mary prior to Conception in "Humility". Jesus and Mary are "Humble". Humility is one of the Holy Fruits all Christians should be striving for to reach Heaven. Beautitudes and as Jesus said to His Saints "I favour humble souls the most". God loves His "Children" - Little Children because many of them are humble.

Naturally our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary - Mary - to remain Humble - was not spoken of much within God's Holy Word. However, if one is Gifted with the Holy Spirit, one will be able to know and feel through The Holy Spirit immediately the most Special Holy Role our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary has been given by God The Most High.

One being Jesus Christ our Merciful Saviour's Mother and in Holy Union with Jesus Christ at all times for eternity - The Annunciation, two being The Visitation, three being The Prophesy of Simeon, "The sword piercing of The Heart of Mary", four being The Marriage at Cana "Mary told the Disciples and others to listen to Her Son", Mary Queen of Heaven (Revelations), and five of which should have been the first point made that God our Creator had chosen His Favoured Daughter Mary from the very beginning for the most Special Holy Role here on earth with His Beloved only Begotten Son Jesus Christ and for the most Special Holy Role in Heaven alongside The Lamb of God, King of Heaven as Queen of Heaven. God's Favoured One - The Magnificat and Revelations.

The Angel Gabriel Comes to Mary
26 Six months after Elizabeth had become pregnant, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a city in Galilee. 27 The angel went to a virgin promised in marriage to a descendant of David named Joseph. The virgin’s name was Mary.

28 When the angel entered her home, he greeted her and said, “You are favored by the Lord! The Lord is with you.”

29 She was startled by what the angel said and tried to figure out what this greeting meant.

30 The angel told her,

“Don’t be afraid, Mary. You have found favora]'>[a] with God.
31 You will become pregnant, give birth to a son,
and name him Jesus.
32 He will be a great man
and will be called the Son of the Most High.
The Lord God will give him
the throne of his ancestor David.
33 Your son will be king of Jacob’s people forever,
and his kingdom will never end.”

34 Mary asked the angel, “How can this be? I’m a virgin.”

35 The angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come to you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore, the holy child developing inside you will be called the Son of God.

36 “Elizabeth, your relative, is six months pregnant with a son in her old age. People said she couldn’t have a child. 37 But nothing is impossible for God.”

38 Mary answered, “I am the Lord’s servant. Let everything you’ve said happen to me.”

Then the angel left her.



Mary Visits Elizabeth

39In those days Mary got ready and hurried to a town in the hill country of Judah, 40where she entered the home of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth.

41When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42In a loud voice she exclaimed, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43And why am I so honored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44For as soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy. 45Blessed is she who has believed that the Lord’s word to her will be fulfilled.”

(Saint Elizabeth) "Elizabeth said why am I so honoured that The Mother of My Lord should come to Me?"

Elizabeth knew then through The Holy Spirit how Honoured Mary was and would be in the future.


56 Mary stayed with Elizabeth for about three months and then returned home.

Original sin (The sin of Adam) was passed down through the womb from one generation to the next, however God created Mary free from original sin so that Jesus would also be free from it. The Immaculate Conception of Mary.

(Luke 1:47).

The Holy Magnificat

My soul magnifies the Lord
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior;
Because He has regarded the lowliness of His handmaid;
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed;
Because He who is mighty has done great things for me,
and holy is His name;
And His mercy is from generation to generation
on those who fear Him.
He has shown might with His arm,
He has scattered the proud in the conceit of their heart.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and has exalted the lowly.
He has filled the hungry with good things,
and the rich He has sent away empty.
He has given help to Israel, his servant, mindful of His mercy
Even as he spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to his posterity forever.


Genesis 3:15, where God told Adam and Eve that He “Will put enmity” between the devil and “THE WOMAN”. The entire Genesis 3:15 verse reads as follows from the RSV:
“I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel."

The Holy Spirit descended upon them:

This was Jesus' Disciples and our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary Present.



Only those of whom The Holy Spirit flows through in Holy Discernment will comprehend, believe and have no problem with this, because they truly believe in God's Holy Word in entirety regardless of faith denominations, regardless of trying to get earthly heads around God being able to create His Blessed Virgin and being sin free as Jesus was.

Every soul desperately needs our Blessed Virgin Mother at the hour of death for soul salvation. Because our Queen of Heaven and Mother works closely in Holy Union with Jesus, God and The Holy Spirit converting souls, saving souls, freeing souls and thousands of people over the centuries whom have seen Heaven Hell and Purgatory attest to this fact.

Anyone who degrades our Blessed Virgin Mother, Queen of Heaven, Mother of God and/or leads others attempting to turn hearts and souls away from our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary needs to realise that these are serious sins accountable to Jesus, God and The Holy Spirit before passing over.

God our Heavenly Father Gifted His Blessed Favoured Daughter to bring souls back to Jesus Her Son and is working with God our Heavenly Father in Heaven imploring, praying, invoking others to pray for souls, the sick and dying, and those souls awaiting judgement, including souls on their way to eternal damnation and the Holy Souls in Purgatory.

Conversions of people/souls/hearts to Jesus, God and The Holy Spirit is performed/done by The Holy Spirit and our Blessed Virgin Mother with Jesus Christ Her Son. When one goes against our Blessed Virgin Mother Mary, one is going against Jesus Her Son, God our Heavenly Father and The Holy Spirit. People should know this in their hearts.
 
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Standing Up

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There were Holy Books of which God our Creator gave to Holy Blessed Ezra with God saying to Ezra to keep aside. These were for the wise among His People. There were parts of God's Holy Word kept aside by Roman Catholics - Saint Peter onwards. These were not disclosed.-snip-
You missed by about 3,000 years. Those other books were given to sons of Levi for various reasons. -insert wink-
 
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Standing Up

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I don't know what I'm supposed to be looking for. If you know then provide a link.

The mother's blood provides everything that the baby needs to grow in the womb, oxygen, nutrients, etc via the placenta, so there is nothing intrinsically wrong with his statement.
Your last breakfast egg. Everything ok there? 'Cause if it wasn't, who's to "blame"?
 
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prodromos

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John of Damascas was an advocate of the so-called pure blood of Mary producing Christ's pure blood.

but taking up His abode in the womb of the holy Virgin, He unreservedly in His own subsistence took upon Himself through the pure blood of the eternal Virgin a body of flesh animated with the spirit of reason and thought,
NPNF2-09. Hilary of Poitiers, John of Damascus - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
What St John of Damascus is saying is that Christ received His flesh from Mary. If He didn't then His death and resurrection would not have taken our humanity to the grave and raised it up again. We would still be subject to death because His flesh which entered Hades and smashed its gates from the inside would have been His alone and not ours.

It is nonsense to say that Christ got His blood from the Father because God is Spirit. The Father has no flesh or blood.
 
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BobRyan

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What St John of Damascus is saying is that Christ received His flesh from Mary. If He didn't then His death and resurrection would not have taken our humanity to the grave and raised it up again.

Where did Adam get "our humanity" from in your view??

Doesn't that prove that making "our humanity" out of thin-air is well within God's power?


We would still be subject to death because His flesh which entered Hades and smashed its gates from the inside would have been His alone and not ours.

That didn't happen.

It is nonsense to say that Christ got His blood from the Father because God is Spirit. The Father has no flesh or blood.

Where did Adam get his flesh and blood from ??
 
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Albion

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Where did Adam get "our humanity" from in your view??

Doesn't that prove that making "our humanity" out of thin-air is well within God's power?
It doesn't prove that God did what you're theorizing in the case of Jesus, though. For the answer, we have to be guided by the Bible. Its account seems pretty clearly to say that the conception was miraculous, but that the development of the fetus and everything else up to and including the birth occurred in the usual way.
 
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Standing Up

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What St John of Damascus is saying is that Christ received His flesh from Mary. If He didn't then His death and resurrection would not have taken our humanity to the grave and raised it up again. We would still be subject to death because His flesh which entered Hades and smashed its gates from the inside would have been His alone and not ours.

It is nonsense to say that Christ got His blood from the Father because God is Spirit. The Father has no flesh or blood.

So you're thinking man descended from apes? Of course God created what He is not.

You're simply wrong about J of D, as he is also wrong about Christ's blood source.

"So then, after the assent of the holy Virgin, the Holy Spirit descended on her, according to the word of the Lord which the angel spoke, purifying her, and granting her power to receive the divinity of the Word, and likewise power to bring forth. And then was she overshadowed by the enhypostatic Wisdom and Power of the most high God, the Son of God Who is of like essence with the Father as of Divine seed, and from her holy and most pure blood He formed flesh animated with the spirit of reason and thought,"
NPNF2-09. Hilary of Poitiers, John of Damascus - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

It was bad science (baby blood comes from mother) that led to bad doctrine (Mary must be made immaculate at either her birth (RC) or at agreement (EO)). And thus Christ's salvific blood came from holy, pure, sinless Mary.

The truth is Christ's blood is of God. The life is in the blood.
 
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Standing Up

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It doesn't prove that God did what you're theorizing in the case of Jesus, though. For the answer, we have to be guided by the Bible. Its account seems pretty clearly to say that the conception was miraculous, but that the development of the fetus and everything else up to and including the birth occurred in the usual way.
The conception was miraculous. The question is the source of Christ's blood. EO and RC speculate it is from Mary, rather than God the Father.
 
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prodromos

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So you're thinking man descended from apes?
How can you hope to comprehend St John of Damascus when you make such stupid assumptions out what I wrote. I'm not going to waste my time chasing nonsense. Go with God as best you can.
 
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prodromos

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Where did Adam get "our humanity" from in your view??
That's beside the point. We all got our humanity from Adam, otherwise we would not suffer the effects of the fall.
Doesn't that prove that making "our humanity" out of thin-air is well within God's power?
No. It is the same reason God didn't create Eve out of the clay but instead used Adam's flesh, his rib.
That didn't happen.
Sure it did.
Where did Adam get his flesh and blood from ??
God made the first Adam, and He has subsequently used Adam's flesh for every other human on the planet including His Son.
 
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BobRyan

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BobRyan said:
Where did Adam get "our humanity" from in your view??

That's beside the point. We all got our humanity from Adam, otherwise we would not suffer the effects of the fall.

And where did Adam get HIS humanity? --- "dirt"??? or might we say "God"??

IF God can do it for Adam - He can do it for Christ. OR He could pick any other virgin other than Mary. He had lots of options. He chose Mary which was God's gift to her. But she was not God's gift to God. She was a sinner, saved by grace who received a great privilege. But she needed Jesus as Savior just like everyone of us "For ALL have sinned" so ALL need salvation from sin.



God made the first Adam, and He has subsequently used Adam's flesh for every other human on the planet including His Son.

True - but at no point was "God stuck" - because "he can start with just dirt"
 
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BobRyan

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It doesn't prove that God did what you're theorizing in the case of Jesus, though.

What do you propose I am theorizing in the case of Jesus???

For the answer, we have to be guided by the Bible. Its account seems pretty clearly to say that the conception was miraculous,

Indeed it was miraculous. Just like forming dirt into the shape of a human being then turning it into the adult - Adam ... was miraculous.
 
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BobRyan

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It was bad science (baby blood comes from mother) that led to bad doctrine (Mary must be made immaculate at either her birth (RC) or at agreement (EO)). And thus Christ's salvific blood came from holy, pure, sinless Mary.

The truth is Christ's blood is of God. The life is in the blood.

That is a good point - babies all make their own blood and the Bible says nothing to contradict that point.

Jesus was "incarnate" the start of the process - the zygote was the miracle - but beyond that the Bible does not get into biology or neonatology details beyond the conception. No biochemistry discussion in the Bible.

Same as in the case of Adam. God forms him directly from the dust of the ground - but no biochemistry, no molecular biology lesson about how dirt elements get formed into human tissue on day 6 other than it happened in less than one evening and morning cycle.
 
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Standing Up

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That is a good point - babies all make their own blood and the Bible says nothing to contradict that point.

Jesus was "incarnate" the start of the process - the zygote was the miracle - but beyond that the Bible does not get into biology or neonatology details beyond the conception. No biochemistry discussion in the Bible.

Same as in the case of Adam. God forms him directly from the dust of the ground - but no biochemistry, no molecular biology lesson about how dirt elements get formed into human tissue on day 6 other than it happened in less than one evening and morning cycle.
So obvious, I have to chuckle at those bound by their Tradition.
 
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prodromos

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True - but at no point was "God stuck" - because "he can start with just dirt"
Except that it would not be our flesh but a parallel flesh with no connection to our own. If God could do what you propose, don't you think He would have? Why go to all the trouble of finding a suitable virgin then going through all the difficulty of growing in her womb, being born and nursed, getting nappies changed etc. Why not just do what He did with Adam?
Unless, contrary to what you suggest, it was necessary for the purpose of our salvation that Christ actually be born of the same flesh that we all are.
 
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Standing Up

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How can you hope to comprehend St John of Damascus when you make such stupid assumptions out what I wrote. I'm not going to waste my time chasing nonsense. Go with God as best you can.
Thank you. Google is your friend for information, rather than dusty blah blah of uninformed false piety.
 
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