Images of Jesus, right or wrong?

[Bible Highlighter]

Well, lets look at the fruits. Images of Jesus spread the Gospel. That's a fruit. Images of Jesus have helped Christians come to deeper understanding of their faith. Images of Gospel scenes have helped Christians remain in Christ. Good fruits. A fear of idolatry is the only evil. Has any Christian taught that an image of Christ is God?

How do you know the fruits are good? Sure, people may be led to the Lord, but are they still holding onto the false lie that Jesus is white and promoting such false said images? What if people are worshiping false images of Jesus because of their continued promotion of wrong images of Jesus? Is the fruit truly good? Do they find themselves to be living a holy life or a sinful one as a result?

 

[name_is_irrelevant]

I think it can promote that Truth about Jesus.

Well, it's like, if you have a white Jesus picture, a black Jesus picture, a Japanese Jesus picture.... then you need to start having more and more pictures for every single identity group, even though we're not supposed to be basing our identity on our ethnicity but in Christ. Otherwise someone feels marginalized. It's more practical to just not draw the pictures, given that we have don't have much information about his appearance to work with (likely for a reason), which would also avoid inaccuracy. Sometimes less is more.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Well, lets look at the fruits. Images of Jesus spread the Gospel. That's a fruit. Images of Jesus have helped Christians come to deeper understanding of their faith. Images of Gospel scenes have helped Christians remain in Christ. Good fruits. A fear of idolatry is the only evil. Has any Christian taught that an image of Christ is God?

I am going to assume you are white. Now, lets say I promote a picture of you as being a black man with your name on it. What if I wrote a biography of your life and then put pictures of you as being a black man? That would be a lie, right? A promotion of a lie. It is no different when folks do this when they promote images of Jesus who is white. It is clearly a lie or fabrication because the Scriptures say Jesus was Jewish.

 

[FenderTL5]

Again, not the same thing. Exodus 20:4-5 is not talking about making images in general. It is talking about making images of God because it is the kind of images that one would bow down to. To bow down in this context is in reference to "bowing down to God." In short, Exodus 20:4-5 is saying not to make images of God. Jesus is God. So we should not make an image of Him. It's really simple for those who want to see it.

I wasn't responding to you. The person I responded to was using a completely different rationale, indicating that, "it would seem to be common sense to not put up a picture of someone when you have no information of what they actually looked like."
My question was to inquire how far this so-called common sense approach should extend. Does this only apply to Jesus or to all throughout history?
Does this so-called common sense approach prohibit illustrations for teaching purposes?
If that's the rationale, how far should it be taken?

 

[Eloy Craft]

While a person may be led to the Lord (Who is truth), it would be a lie to make a person believe that Jesus is white.

Jesus was a Semite and I prefer renderings to be true to that. What's important is who He is not what he looks like.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I wasn't responding to you. The person I responded to was using a completely different rationale, indicating that, "it would seem to be common sense to not put up a picture of someone when you have no information of what they actually looked like."
My question was to inquire how far this so-called common sense approach should extend. Does this only apply to Jesus or to all throughout history?
Does this so-called common sense approach prohibit illustrations for teaching purposes?
If that's the rationale, how far should it be taken?

I know who you were replying to. I was responding to your post because it was posted publicly within this thread and not to him alone in private. I have a right to talk about what you said (even if you were talking to someone else).

Okay. As for your reply to me: Well, what if I wrote a biography of your life and then posted pictures of you looking like a Chinese crippled man in a wheel chair? What if I kept doing this through out the book? It would be promoting a lie about you. It surely would not be nice, would it?

Imagine how God feels. God tells us not to make images of Him and look at what people do today. They not only make idol images of Him but they do so in such a way that is blatantly inaccurate and false. Who cares about how we view God, right? But did not Jesus say we are to worship God in spirit and in truth? (John 4:24). How can one do that if they are worshiping an image that is clearly a lie?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus was a Semite and I prefer renderings to be true to that. What's important is who He is not what he looks like.

So you wouldn't mind me posting images of you looking like some kind of black man through out a book that was about your life? You honestly would not care? You would say.... It is not important what I look like.... etc.?

 

[Eloy Craft]

I am going to assume you are white. Now, lets say I promote a picture of you as being a black man with your name on it. What if I wrote a biography of your life and then put pictures of you as being a black man? That would be a lie, right? A promotion of a lie. It is no different when folks do this when they promote images of Jesus who is white. It is clearly a lie or fabrication because the Scriptures say Jesus was Jewish.

That's a good point for anyone but Our Savior. I believe because Jesus is love, when people imagine Him as looking similar to themselves, I think Jesus rejoices. I think He wants to be one with all people way more than they know exactly what He looked like on earth.

 

[Daniel9v9]

I don't reject the use of a cross here and there or a picture of the tomb, etc. That is not the same thing as the command given to us in Exodus 20:4-5. The first part of the command simply tells us to not making any graven image in heaven above and the earth below, etc. This is in context to second half of the command that says not to bow down to such an image. In other words, who should you bow down to? God. So this command is saying not to make any images of God. It's not talking about crosses and or drawings of things that are not what we believe to be God. When people post pictures of Jesus, they are saying that this is God. Well, most people believe Jesus is God (like myself). So that is what they are saying when they post pictures of Jesus. They are saying.... "Hey look! This is my God!" That is what they are saying (whether they want that to happen or not). In other words, it is a lie. The picture is not really what Jesus looks like. A picture is merely a different form of communication than words. We are told not to lie in the Bible. So if we can lie with our words, we can most certainly lie with our pictures or artwork or images that we create or promote. We have to be true with everything that we do.



Actually, Romans 14 mentions NOTHING about creating or promoting images. It talks about our liberty in Christ in regards to what we can eat and on what day we choose to rest and worship God.

Also, Romans 14:21 says,

"It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. " (Romans 14:21).

So if you believe Romans 14 extends to making idol images of our Lord (when it doesn't specifically say that), than this would mean that you should not approve of the open public display of them because they can lead others who are weak to stumble into idolatry.

Well, now. Romans 14 correctly concerns not abusing our freedom in Christ that may cause our neighbour to stumble. This is not limited to food and holy days only, but all kinds of adiaphora.

What I mean by this is that while some, for example, lift their hands in worship, others clap, still others make the sign of the cross. No one is any more pious than the next with regards to mode. Likewise, no one has the right to force or deny any of these practices, which are not sinful in and of themselves. Iconography falls under adiaphora.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That's a good point for anyone but Our Savior. I believe because Jesus is love, when people imagine Him as looking similar to themselves, I think Jesus rejoices. I think He wants to be one with all people way more than they know exactly what He looked like on earth.

Why would you assume that? Jesus is both God and man. I think it would upset God just as it would upset you and me. Why? Because it is the promotion of a lie. Jesus is not a chameleon whereby He changes to be like whoever worships Him. That is not Scriptural and nor is it morally correct.

 

[Eloy Craft]

Well, it's like, if you have a white Jesus picture, a black Jesus picture, a Japanese Jesus picture.... then you need to start having more and more pictures for every single identity group, even though we're not supposed to be basing our identity on our ethnicity but in Christ.

If all ethnic groups are imagining Jesus as a person of their ethnic groups and we are all one people in Christ, and we are for the most part, then by definition we aren't basing our identity on ethnicity. Japanese people don't have a problem with Jesus looking European, and visa versa. Walls between ethnic groups are broken down in that way not built.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Well, now. Romans 14 correctly concerns not abusing our freedom in Christ that may cause our neighbour to stumble. This is not limited to food and holy days only, but all kinds of adiaphora.

No, it's not. You are seeing something in the text that is not there. Nowhere is idolatry mentioned as a liberty in that chapter anymore than murdering people or stealing is mentioned as a liberty in Christ.

What I mean by this is that while some, for example, lift their hands in worship, others clap, still others make the sign of the cross. No one is any more pious than the next with regards to mode. Likewise, no one has the right to force or deny any of these practices, which are not sinful in and of themselves. Iconography falls under adiaphora.

No, it doesn't. Iconography involving images of God is idolatry. See Exodus 20:4-5.
Iconography involving images of God is making an image of God.
Making an image of God is forbidden in Exodus 20:4-5.

We are not to make images of God. It's not up for debate. The Bible is clear in what it says.

Worship is when we adore God in some form another (either through prayer, singing, reading His Word (with His help), and or loving others). Worship is about our spiritual adoration of God and this is manifested in our actions towards God.

Why did King Hezekiah later destroy the brass serpent?
It's because the Israelites were making an idol out of it.
Do you not realize that people do worship Jesus as being white?
Should we not follow the same example and destroy such idols?
How would you apply the destruction of the brass serpent in your own life?

 

[Eloy Craft]

Why would you assume that? Jesus is both God and man. I think it would upset God just as it would upset you and me. Why? Because it is the promotion of a lie. Jesus is not a chameleon whereby He changes to be like whoever worships Him. That is not Scriptural and nor is it morally correct.

Honesly, for me there is very little about His outer appearance that has contributed to my growth in Him. Obviously since I've ever seen what He looked like when He was on earth. It really must not matter at all.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Honesly, for me there is very little about His outer appearance that has contributed to my growth in Him. Obviously since I've ever seen what He looked like when He was on earth. It really must not matter at all.

But before you said that a person can view Jesus as looking similar to themselves. How is that not a problem? Do we make God in our image and our likeness?

The greatest lie in the garden is that we shall be as gods.
Are we not trying to be like God when we seek to make the Lord like us in some way?

 

[Eloy Craft]

@jasonBut before you said that a person can view Jesus as looking similar to themselves. How is that not a problem? Do we make God in our image and our likeness?

I think if it were a problem there would be some Apostolic teaching about it. The Apostles seemed to not put any importance at all on what He looked like. They taught that to be Christ to others we need to be as much like them as possible. A Jew to a Jew a Roman to a Roman...etc.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@jasonBut before you said that a person can view Jesus as looking similar to themselves. How is that not a problem? Do we make God in our image and our likeness?

I think if it were a problem there would be some Apostolic teaching about it. The Apostles seemed to not put any importance at all on what He looked like. They taught that to be Christ to others we need to be as much like them as possible. A Jew to a Jew a Roman to a Roman...etc.

Let me ask you a question. Why do you think the Bible records King Hezekiah as destroying the brass serpent? Do you think that such a truth can be applied today?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@jasonBut before you said that a person can view Jesus as looking similar to themselves. How is that not a problem? Do we make God in our image and our likeness?

I think if it were a problem there would be some Apostolic teaching about it. The Apostles seemed to not put any importance at all on what He looked like. They taught that to be Christ to others we need to be as much like them as possible. A Jew to a Jew a Roman to a Roman...etc.

Do you think it is wrong for a person to worship Jesus as being white?
If not, then why did Jesus say we are to worship God in spirit and in truth?
Is a false image of Jesus the truth or is it a lie?
Is it possible that we can worship God (having a false image of Him in our mind) by praying, fasting, reading His Word, singing praises to Him, and in loving others, etc.?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."
(John 4:24).

 

[Blade]

Got a anchor with Christ on it.. have a picture my kids gave me of Yeshua/Jesus. Truth? The anchor/cross lol... a not Jesus at all. He is seated at the right hand of my Father/OUR Father. And that Picture? Please.... in it He is holding one sheep with many around Him. Says it all.. again.. not Him though. Its HOW your treat those things. If I KISSED it or prayed to it.. then it has become an idol. For its NOT Him... as I see it

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Since Christ became man it was then possible for us to depict him. The same is true of any of the Saints as well, whom we do not have photographs of yet were just as real as Jesus was.

The prohibitions on idolatry were speaking against societies that literally believed the god or gods lived in their idols. Icons do not have Jesus or the saints inhabiting them but are merely representations of them.