I'm stumped

[chaowdur]

Hello,

I'm a first time poster, long time reader of these forums. I've been a Christ follower for all my life (all 16 years), and tried to mature in my faith.

Recently I've come across a strong atheist whom I have tried to talk to about Christianity. He basically says that all human life is the result of random coincidence and that human consciousness is the only thing that separates us from the animals. He adds that religion is a illusion of how humans try to find an answer for the unknown and that the only purpose of life is self satisfaction.

I know that a historical figure Jesus Christ preached the gospel through his ministry and through actions (I.E. miracles). I know that He died to bridge the gap we had from God and take responsibility for our sins.

I'm not sure how I can deal with this situation because his purpose for life is self satisfaction and he believes that there is no factual evidence behind Christianity. I really can't think of any hard evidence (other than scriptures which he believes are corrupted; I know that it was passed down through MANY scribes, and any alterations are grouped and eliminated). I think that if I was in his position, the only logically thing to do is to seek self satisfaction in every selfish way possible and end his "meaningless" life if he cannot. I really need help in ways of approaching this situation in a Christian manner.

Thank you.

 

[laconicstudent]

that human consciousness is the only thing that separates us from the animals.

Humans are animals.

And he's wrong. Humans aren't different from the rest of the Animal Kingdom on the basis of consciousness, because other animals have that: dolphins and higher primates and a few others like elephants and pigs.

I'm not sure how I can deal with this situation because his purpose for life is self satisfaction

Has he said that?

 

[Tangible]

1. Pray for him
2. Be a true friend to him
3. Pray for him
4. Tell him what God has done for you
5. Pray for him
6. Invite him to church
7. Pray for him
8. Only if he asks, suggest a few good books
9. Pray for him
10. Don't beat him over the head, just be his truest friend
11. Pray for him
12. Don't stop being his friend if he isn't interested
13. Pray for him
14. Keep praying
etc.

 

[chaowdur]

Has he said that?

Yes.

Lovely quote by the way.
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for ever should we fail- should we fall- we will know that we have lived."

 

[DD2008]

It's possible the atheist might just be an idiot. Only God can fix stupid.

Psalms 14:1 KJV
[1] The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

 

[Dorothea]

Love him and pray for him. Don't discuss God with Him, live the life of a follower of Christ. This is the best example for someone who is not a believer.

 

[Yarddog]

Hello,
I'm a first time poster, long time reader of these forums. I've been a Christ follower for all my life (all 16 years), and tried to mature in my faith.

Trust God and don't rush things.

Recently I've come across a strong atheist whom I have tried to talk to about Christianity. He basically says that all human life is the result of random coincidence and that human consciousness is the only thing that separates us from the animals. He adds that religion is a illusion of how humans try to find an answer for the unknown and that the only purpose of life is self satisfaction.

None of these guys can explain how random coincidence allowed creatures to develop sight. How single celled creatures who reproduce by splitting can somehow decide to become male and female.

I'm not sure how I can deal with this situation because his purpose for life is self satisfaction and he believes that there is no factual evidence behind Christianity. I really can't think of any hard evidence (other than scriptures which he believes are corrupted; I know that it was passed down through MANY scribes, and any alterations are grouped and eliminated). I think that if I was in his position, the only logically thing to do is to seek self satisfaction in every selfish way possible and end his "meaningless" life if he cannot. I really need help in ways of approaching this situation in a Christian manner.

We cannot prove God to someone who does not believe in scripture by quoting them, so don't try. The only way to get through to an atheist is to live Christ and let him see the Spirit of God alive in you. Live a life of love for others to see and allow the Spirit of God to do the touching.

God may or may not reveal himself to this person but that is God's place and not yours.

Thank you.[/quote]

 

[wayseer]

Hello,

I'm a first time poster, long time reader of these forums. I've been a Christ follower for all my life (all 16 years), and tried to mature in my faith.

Recently I've come across a strong atheist whom I have tried to talk to about Christianity. He basically says that all human life is the result of random coincidence and that human consciousness is the only thing that separates us from the animals. He adds that religion is a illusion of how humans try to find an answer for the unknown and that the only purpose of life is self satisfaction.

I know that a historical figure Jesus Christ preached the gospel through his ministry and through actions (I.E. miracles). I know that He died to bridge the gap we had from God and take responsibility for our sins.

I'm not sure how I can deal with this situation because his purpose for life is self satisfaction and he believes that there is no factual evidence behind Christianity. I really can't think of any hard evidence (other than scriptures which he believes are corrupted; I know that it was passed down through MANY scribes, and any alterations are grouped and eliminated). I think that if I was in his position, the only logically thing to do is to seek self satisfaction in every selfish way possible and end his "meaningless" life if he cannot. I really need help in ways of approaching this situation in a Christian manner.

Thank you.

Your atheist is right. Science has demonstrated that life is the result of chance mutations. It appears your friend has read Dawkin's The Selfish Gene.

Where your friend is wrong is that no one cannot prove a negative. No one can prove something does not exist.

You might also catch up on Anslem's Proslogin, commoningly known as the otological argument for the existence of God.

 

[silence_dogood]

Hello,

I'm a first time poster, long time reader of these forums. I've been a Christ follower for all my life (all 16 years), and tried to mature in my faith.

Recently I've come across a strong atheist whom I have tried to talk to about Christianity. He basically says that all human life is the result of random coincidence and that human consciousness is the only thing that separates us from the animals.

But where did that human consciousness come from? Simply saying that it's a coincidence isn't an answer because even coincidental events need a first cause.

The question I always like to ask atheists is, when life magically appeared on Earth, what developed first: the ability to reproduce or the drive to reproduce.

He adds that religion is a illusion of how humans try to find an answer for the unknown and that the only purpose of life is self satisfaction.

In a sense, he's right. But the difference is that our religion is based on real, verifiable evidence concerning a real person and real historic events.

I know that a historical figure Jesus Christ preached the gospel through his ministry and through actions (I.E. miracles). I know that He died to bridge the gap we had from God and take responsibility for our sins.

Well, not exactly. We are still responsible for our sins. Jesus died to purchase the atonement for our sins. And there wasn't merely a gap between us and God, but we were enemies of God, in danger of facing His wrath on Judgement Day.

 

[hv/2π]

.

 

[E.C.]

Just pray for him.


As I like to say...

If asked a question; answer it.
If not; shut up.

 

[bbbbbbb]

The irony I experience with people such as your friend is that as I live a consistent, Christian life before them, they are more and more convicted of their personal sin and, as a result, become ever more angry. As has pointed out, prayer is the key item, followed by steadfastness. Don't argue, but do show Christlike love for him and a genuine compassion for his soul.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The irony I experience with people such as your friend is that as I live a consistent, Christian life before them, they are more and more convicted of their personal sin and, as a result, become ever more angry. As has pointed out, prayer is the key item, followed by steadfastness. Don't argue, but do show Christlike love for him and a genuine compassion for his soul.

One of my favorite verses concerning that

http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm

T-R) 1 Peter 3:15 Lord yet the *God* hallow ye! in the hearts of ye, ready ever toward a defense to every the one asking ye an account concerning the in ye hope, but with meekness/prauthtoV <4240> and fear.

Textus Rec.) 1 Peter 3:15 kurion de ton *qeon* agiasate en taiV kardiaiV umwn etoimoi de aei proV apologian panti tw aitounti umaV logon peri thV en umin elpidoV meta prauthtoV kai fobou

4240. prautes prah-oo'-tace from 4239; mildness, i.e. (by implication) humility:--meekness. 1) mildness of disposition, gentleness of spirit, meekness

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I would even go so far as to tell you to distance yourself from this person and pray for him.

You don't need that mud slung on you.

Forgive me...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

*snip* OP:

Recently I've come across a strong atheist whom I have tried to talk to about Christianity. He basically says that all human life is the result of random coincidence and that human consciousness is the only thing that separates us from the animals. He adds that religion is a illusion of how humans try to find an answer for the unknown and that the only purpose of life is self satisfaction.

I would even go so far as to tell you to distance yourself from this person and pray for him.

You don't need that mud slung on you.

Forgive me...

Paul seemed to distinquish between those outside of the Church of God and those inside..afterall, our Lord ate with Sinners in the Gospels

1 Corin 5:9 I did write to you in the epistle, not to keep company with whoremongers--
10 and not certainly with the whoremongers of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, seeing ye ought then to go forth out of the world--
11 and now, I did write to you not to keep company with [him], if any one, being named a brother, may be a whoremonger, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--with such a one not even to eat together;

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

All i see in this thread is "pray for him" and "scripture this, scripture that" im not taking the side of the atheist but i think all he wants is that you provide real evidence for the existence of god other than a book
@ hv/2n.. you say there is plenty of factual evidence for christianity.. well can you post that evidence right now so we can all see it?
Nobody is trying to stop god.. people just want to know the truth..

Good post! I find throwing NT Scriptures at both the unbelieving Jews and Atheists likened to a salmon swimming upstream....but sometimes I just can't help myself

http://www.christianforums.com/t7350852-17/#post51039482
GT Fundies. Who are they?

quote: From what I've seen, LLJ is a bit of a bible-quoting robot.
Often he posts things in General Apologetics that are quite off-topic.
At least he doesn't call Atheists deluded unlike most Christians. I think that he's too far gone to be saved at this point.

 

[SeraphimSarov]

Angry atheists sometimes are more desperate for God than any of us who call ourselves Christians. Why do you think they're so angry? Your best bet is to live a Christian life and demonstrate Christ. Even the hardest of hearts that so many of us love to look down on can be melted by the love of Christ.

In reference to a few of the posts above... if my Christian friends had turned away from me when I was an atheist and saying all the same things the OP is reporting, I'd probably still be an atheist. God helps; pray.

 

[Tangible]

All i see in this thread is "pray for him" and "scripture this, scripture that" im not taking the side of the atheist but i think all he wants is that you provide real evidence for the existence of god other than a book
@ hv/2n.. you say there is plenty of factual evidence for christianity.. well can you post that evidence right now so we can all see it?
Nobody is trying to stop god.. people just want to know the truth..

That kind of evidence precludes faith. Attempting to persuade someone who is hostile to spiritual truths will not be effective, and will only give him something to argue against.

Only God can give him a change of heart.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Care for your own salvation first.

Forgive me...

 

[Fireinfolding]

Hello,

I'm a first time poster, long time reader of these forums. I've been a Christ follower for all my life (all 16 years), and tried to mature in my faith.

Recently I've come across a strong atheist whom I have tried to talk to about Christianity. He basically says that all human life is the result of random coincidence and that human consciousness is the only thing that separates us from the animals. He adds that religion is a illusion of how humans try to find an answer for the unknown and that the only purpose of life is self satisfaction.

I know that a historical figure Jesus Christ preached the gospel through his ministry and through actions (I.E. miracles). I know that He died to bridge the gap we had from God and take responsibility for our sins.

I'm not sure how I can deal with this situation because his purpose for life is self satisfaction and he believes that there is no factual evidence behind Christianity. I really can't think of any hard evidence (other than scriptures which he believes are corrupted; I know that it was passed down through MANY scribes, and any alterations are grouped and eliminated). I think that if I was in his position, the only logically thing to do is to seek self satisfaction in every selfish way possible and end his "meaningless" life if he cannot. I really need help in ways of approaching this situation in a Christian manner.

Thank you.

I'd pray for him if I were you, but what can you do to convince a man of an invisible God he does believe exist? Afterall anyone that comes to God must believe he (at least) that he is (or exists). He might not believe in Gods son (wherein that would take some "convincing" or reasoning from scripture) wherewith one is familiar enough with them to prove from them that He is.

But as it says here...

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

I hope you wont be so hard on yourself over it, keep him in your prayers. Just be ready to give an answer to those who ask you about the hope in you (I might regard that as an open door) that God opened for you but not unto doubtful disputations concerning God, I wouldnt advise that especially when he is reasoning out of his own thoughts verses the scriptures. Been in that place before, sometimes folks are ripe for hearing and other times ripe for arguing (if you know what I mean).