I'm stumped

[Dorothea]

so basically you're saying.. you dont have and cant provide proof.. so i just have to have faith.. so with evidence there would be no need for faith?.. i believe theres a god im just not seeing the christian god as being plausible .
So tell me what kind of evidence doesnt preclude faith?

I don't think that's what he and others were saying. I believe what they were saying is that to give historical evidence or whatever "proof" would not sway the mind of an atheist who's mind and heart are closed to anything having to do with God.

 

[Tangible]

so basically you're saying.. you dont have and cant provide proof.. so i just have to have faith.. so with evidence there would be no need for faith?.. i believe theres a god im just not seeing the christian god as being plausible .
So tell me what kind of evidence doesnt preclude faith?

(First off, if you believe the Christian God is implausible, you probably need to review the rules for this CF area.)

Faith needs an object. It's not just faith that saves, but faith in something.

While it's perfectly fine to look to various evidences - historical, philosophical, rational, scientific -that exist for the objective truth of Christian claims, they are not the primary object of saving faith.

The object of saving faith is the cross of Christ and the promises of God. Only God can give you that kind of faith. It's not something that you can produce for yourself or gain by rational deliberation.

 

[Tangible]

Not to be rude, but GT is a Christians-only forum. Perhaps you would like to take your questions to another more appropriate forum.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Not to be rude, but GT is a Christians-only forum. Perhaps you would like to take your questions to another more appropriate forum.

Outreach - Christian Forums

This sounds like the board he would enjoy:

Exploring Christianity - Christian Forums
Exploring Christianity

http://www.christianforums.com/t7461547/
Why is it that when Christians can't handle ex-Christians, they say...?

 

[Tangible]

Thanks, LLOJ. I'm not familiar with that side of CF.

 

[New_Wineskin]

Hello,

I'm a first time poster, long time reader of these forums. I've been a Christ follower for all my life (all 16 years), and tried to mature in my faith.

Recently I've come across a strong atheist whom I have tried to talk to about Christianity. He basically says that all human life is the result of random coincidence and that human consciousness is the only thing that separates us from the animals. He adds that religion is a illusion of how humans try to find an answer for the unknown and that the only purpose of life is self satisfaction.

I know that a historical figure Jesus Christ preached the gospel through his ministry and through actions (I.E. miracles). I know that He died to bridge the gap we had from God and take responsibility for our sins.

I'm not sure how I can deal with this situation because his purpose for life is self satisfaction and he believes that there is no factual evidence behind Christianity. I really can't think of any hard evidence (other than scriptures which he believes are corrupted; I know that it was passed down through MANY scribes, and any alterations are grouped and eliminated). I think that if I was in his position, the only logically thing to do is to seek self satisfaction in every selfish way possible and end his "meaningless" life if he cannot. I really need help in ways of approaching this situation in a Christian manner.

Thank you.

Hi .

The only way that I would suggest discussing Christianity with an athiest is to deal only with the aspect of it being a personal relationship with the Lord . Once you attempt to "prove" Christianity , you lose . Be real with them .

 

[Tangible]

EXACTLY the kind of answer i expected.. NO answer.. how come everytime you are presented with a difficult question you dont even attemp to answer it but you comepletely dodge the question?

I don't dodge the difficult questions, but this isn't the appropriate venue. Follow the links to the forums LLOJ linked to and knock yourself out.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I don't dodge the difficult questions, but this isn't the appropriate venue. Follow the links to the forums LLOJ linked to and knock yourself out.

I agree.

I looked at some of his posts and from what I can see, he is playing "devil's advocate" with other Christians, just as the atheists and non-Christian religions/Pagans do with us

http://www.christianforums.com/t7462482/#post54588614

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

na.. how come when somebody says something or brings up something that you dont agree with you label them as a person playing some type of role, the only thing im guilty of is being curious.. but you dont have to answer my questions its fine, cherry-pick all you want, stop thinking that everyone has an agenda

What answer are you looking for? Seems like a lot of members here have given you their views [including myself], but evidently you don't like the ones given to you.

Tell me this, how would you answer your own questions?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Like this:

Question answered. Now are you happy?

 

[avra34v2]

as far as you're last sentence about seeking self-satisfaction, that's simple

Christianity is the greatest and most effective method of seeking satisfaction and pleasure. God is most glorified in you when you are most satisfied on him.

I would listen to/read up on John Piper; he's defined Christian hedonism with his ministry. desiringgod.org

 

[laconicstudent]

Yes.

Lovely quote by the way.
"There is no struggle too vast, no odds too overwhelming, for ever should we fail- should we fall- we will know that we have lived."

Thank you.


Anomandaris Purake, Son of Darkness, Knight of High House Dark and Lord of Moon's Spawn, was teh awesome. Before he orchestrated his own death, by his own sword, Dragnipur, at the hand of Dessembrae, Lord of Tragedy, in order to release the Gate of Dark from Dragnipur and force Mother Dark to turn her face back to the Tiste Andii.


*sobs*

*wails* Anomander Rake, I still can't believe your gone!!!!!

 

[heymikey80]

Recently I've come across a strong atheist whom I have tried to talk to about Christianity.

Love him and talk about Christ initiating those things in you. How the origins of thought, meaning, good & evil, life, humanity, spirit, love (not the emotion -- the spiritual, sacrificial concern), are all from outside this physical universe, and God -- and how they exist.

No one ever got to Christ through silence. Not me, who could readily be that person, thirty years ago. It took immersion in a Christian environment to actually rip existential reality away from me as the only reality.

Drag more Christians around him, and be friendly and open to thinking about his position from your perspective. It's perfectly reasonable to say, "I don't know, let's talk about this some more." But be sure to commune with others who can help you with the struggles it'll cause in you as well.

Please. This is not a final exam. You can look on other people's papers. Don't go it alone. But do go it.

As for his "greatest happiness" initiative, I remember CS Lewis (paraphrasing): "If you look for truth, you may find comfort in the end. If you want to find comfort, you'll get only soft-soap [sentimentality] and in the end, despair. " That paragraph of CS Lewis' just skewers my Christian experience, so I recommend it. Search for CS Lewis and "soft soap".