I'm starting to change my mind about the End Times (help!)

[Saucy]

Wow! This hits the nail right on the head.
The Zionist's who established the Jewish State of Israel, have no relationship, ethnically, [maybe a few might, but they cannot prove it] or Spiritually to ancient Israel.
They and their evil neighbors face God's punishment quite soon. Jeremiah 12:14

In Matthew 24:34, Jesus was not referring family generations, but to all the people alive who see the fig tree come into bud and leaf. Verse 32-33 An obvious reference to the new nation of Israel.

Those who see that happen, in May 1948 and are born subsequently, are the generation who will see it all. That is: ALL the end time Bible prophesies, leading up to the glorious Return of Jesus for His Millennium reign.

And today, as evidenced by the proliferation of theories and guesses about God's Plans for our future.
Why? Jesus tells us in Matthew 11:25-26.

So then who are the Jews who will return from all directions and eventually accept Christ?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I understand. Many are interpreting the idea of the third temple because there must be the antichrist standing in the temple and calling himself God. Since the temple was destroyed, it must be rebuilt, and sacrifices would resume. I know it would insult God, but Jews, at this time, do not believe in Jesus as their Messiah. This is partly why I believe Revelations hasn't happened yet because Jews accepting Jesus as Messiah is expected to happen in the future.

There have been a good number of Jews over the years who have accepted Jesus as Messiah. Including 3,000 on the day of Pentecost alone. Why is this seen as only a future thing?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

So then who are the Jews who will return from all directions and eventually accept Christ?

You tell us. That isn't taught in scripture.

 

[Douggg]

Jesus declared that it was not the Fathers house

Matthew 23:37-38 King James Version

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

The tone in those verses is that Jesus lamented over it, not that he desired to destroy the temple, nor city.

In John 2:16, that same temple, Jesus called as "my Father's house".

John 2:16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.

 

[Douggg]

You won't find anything in the new testament about a 3rd temple being built. To say there will be one is to add to the Bible.

There has to be a temple built in order for the daily sacrifice to begin again - so the time of the end vision of the little horn stopping it can take place.

Daniel 8:11-17.

 

[keras]

So then who are the Jews who will return from all directions and eventually accept Christ?

Some may be Jews, as Paul says: only a remnant of [Jewish] Israel will be saved. Romans 9:27, but mostly the people who will go to live in all of the holy Land, are the faithful Christian peoples, from every tribe, race, nation and language. John sees then there in Revelation 7:9

 

[keras]

There has to be a temple built in order for the daily sacrifice to begin again - so the time of the end vision of the little horn stopping it can take place.

Right; and it will be we Christians who will build the new Temple. Zechariah 6:15 and the Prophecies of Ezekiel 40 to 48.
Jesus will Return to it and will reign from it. Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14:16-21

 

[Douggg]

absolutly not

The temple is 2Thessalonians2:4 is the time of the end temple which the little horn (the Antichrist person) will stop the daily sacrifice.

Daniel 8:11-17. Gabriel said the vision about the little horn's action is time of the end.

That same vision that was referenced by both Daniel and Gabriel in Daniel 9:21-24.


21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

 

[wonderkins]

Then who is the lawless one mentioned in 2nd Thessalonians 2:4 "who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God." That is the same anti-christ figure. Just because he is not always called the antichrist does not mean it is not the same person. It goes on to say he will be suppressed (by the Holy Spirit) until the Spirit is taken away. That taking away, in my opinion, is the church's rapture.

We are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. The Spirit cannot leave the earth and leave us who are sealed without Him, so this tells me the church will go with Him. The Spirit clearly has not left yet, but when the church is raptured, the antichrist will not be suppressed any longer and will have free reign to wreak havoc on the earth.

I've come to the belief that the emperors were under demonic influence during their reigns.

I also believe the man of lawlessness to be Nero. 2 thessalonians was written around 51-52ad. Nero wasn't in power yet, but he was being trained. He was an evil man being restrained by his mother and two tutors. He eventually has his mother and one of the tutors executed. The other tutor was exiled. With them out of the way, Nero could do whatever he wanted. And he did.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Right; and it will be we Christians who will build the new Temple. Zechariah 6:15 and the Prophecies of Ezekiel 40 to 48.
Jesus will Return to it and will reign from it. Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14:16-21

Ezekiel 45:15 Also one sheep is to be taken from every flock of two hundred from the well-watered pastures of Israel. These will be used for the grain offerings, burnt offerings and fellowship offerings to make atonement for the people, declares the Sovereign Lord. 16 All the people of the land will be required to give this special offering to the prince in Israel. 17 It will be the duty of the prince to provide the burnt offerings, grain offerings and drink offerings at the festivals, the New Moons and the Sabbaths—at all the appointed festivals of Israel. He will provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings and fellowship offerings to make atonement for the Israelites.

Why would sacrifices and offerings be made in the future "to make atonement for the people"? Will the blood of Christ somehow no longer be sufficient to make atonement for people's sins?

 

[wonderkins]

There has to be a temple built in order for the daily sacrifice to begin again - so the time of the end vision of the little horn stopping it can take place.

Daniel 8:11-17.

The first temple wasn't even standing when Daniel wrote that. But the second temple was a future temple when he wrote it. Why don't you believe he's talking about the second temple?

 

[wonderkins]

Right; and it will be we Christians who will build the new Temple. Zechariah 6:15 and the Prophecies of Ezekiel 40 to 48.
Jesus will Return to it and will reign from it. Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14:16-21

Why would Christians build the temple so that sacrifices can start again? That would be spitting in the face of Jesus.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The temple is 2Thessalonians2:4 is the time of the end temple which the little horn (the Antichrist person) will stop the daily sacrifice.

How could such a temple qualify to be called "the temple of God"? In what sense would it be God's temple?

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Why would Christians build the temple so that sacrifices can start again? That would be spitting in the face of Jesus.

Exactly. I can't believe any Christian would not understand this.

 

[Douggg]

The first temple wasn't even standing when Daniel wrote that. But the second temple was a future temple when he wrote it.

There was not temple standing during the time of the Babylonian captivity agreed.

But "time of the end" is a term that fits with other bible passages... such as in Daniel 12:4, and Daniel 's contemporary Ezekiel in Ezekiel 38:4 and 38:16.

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I've come to the belief that the emperors were under demonic influence during their reigns.

I also believe the man of lawlessness to be Nero. 2 thessalonians was written around 51-52ad. Nero wasn't in power yet, but he was being trained. He was an evil man being restrained by his mother and two tutors. He eventually has his mother and one of the tutors executed. The other tutor was exiled. With them out of the way, Nero could do whatever he wanted. And he did.

What Paul wrote about in 2 Thess 2 was about "the temple of God". The physical temple standing at that time was no longer "the temple of God" at that time, so you should consider what Paul would have called "the temple of God" at that time.

 

[wonderkins]

What Paul wrote about in 2 Thess 2 was about "the temple of God". The physical temple standing at that time was no longer "the temple of God" at that time, so you should consider what Paul would have called "the temple of God" at that time.

Fair enough. That's a relatively new thought that I'm still working through. I heard Phil Kayser teach on it and it seemed reasonable.

 

[keras]

Why would sacrifices and offerings be made in the future "to make atonement for the people"? Will the blood of Christ somehow no longer be sufficient to make atonement for people's sins?

Why would Christians build the temple so that sacrifices can start again? That would be spitting in the face of Jesus.

Jesus did atone for our sins, but we keep on sinning! He does not keep on dying, and the fact is we must continue to ask for forgiveness.
I do not claim to know how the requirements of God for our redemption works, but I do know that many scriptures say there will be a new Temple and sacrifices and offerings will be made in it.
Remember; God does not change, He wanted sacrifices before and He will do so again. Isaiah 56:7, +

Denial of plainly stated scriptures is not a good look and to make nasty comments about a Prophesied Temple in Jerusalem during the end times, is foolishness.

 

[Hank77]

I apologize if this is not the right place for this.

I wanted some help with End Times theology. For most of my Christian walk, I've believed in the Left Behind type of theology. The tribulation is ahead of us and will be kicked off by the rapture of the church.

But all of a sudden I've been introduced to preterist theology and I don't know what to believe anymore. Could Daniel and even Revelations have warned about Nero being the fulfillment of being the little horn rising up as the Beast of the Sea? I heard he matches up with 666, he ended temple sacrifice after breaking a treaty with Jerusalem, and so much more.

I always heard that the best would be killed and brought back from the dead, which I just read the beast was Rome and after Nero killed himself, the empire was surely dead, but "came back to life" better than ever after Vespasian came to rule.

This is difficult for me because I have been waiting for the return of the Messiah. Is He not supposed to return after the tribulation? What have we been doing for the last 2,000 years if the tribulation happened so long ago? Was Nero the antichrist?

I don't know what to believe anymore! Please help me out if you have some answers for me (or even share good books and resources that can help me.) Thanks!

You've received a lot of good advice here, I just say that there are good scriptural places to land between dispensationalism and preterism.

 

[keras]

What Paul wrote about in 2 Thess 2 was about "the temple of God". The physical temple standing at that time was no longer "the temple of God" at that time, so you should consider what Paul would have called "the temple of God" at that time.

This idea simply does not hold water. Paul's prophecy proves that there will be a new Temple and it will be dedicated to God. Proved by how the Anti- Christ stops the offerings; Daniel 9:27 and desecrates it by sitting in the holy of holies. 2 Thessalonians 2:4
Ezekiel 43:1-4 shows h that the Glory of God will be in the new Temple.