I'm so confused

[Mustang56]

So recently I thought I was accepting Christ as my savior and starting to believe in God again, but then I start to realize we live in a world of deception, and how Christians would ALWAYS be persecuted.

I've listened to some of Zac Poonen's sermons recently (you can find them on Youtube) and he constantly warns that other preachers don't preach what Jesus did with his Sermon on the Mount, and that although other denominations seem godly and nice on the outside, he said to be careful of deception and discern.

Those who follow Christ should abide by all his commandments, not just some. To abide by the will of the Father.

I've been struggling because I still have things in my life which I feel aren't godly and may LEAD to sin but in itself aren't sinful (at least I don't think they are). But the passage regarding Jesus' second coming and how he will tell many that 'I never knew you, depart from me' frightens me. This passage has send my mind into a whirlwind in the past few days.

Many will claim to be Christian and accept Jesus as savior, but their lives will be wasted because they didn't worship the true Jesus. They didn't read the Bible and abide by his commandments, though they claim they have. And it's even more disturbing for those who just claim to be contemporary Christians (basically live your worldly life but feel obligated to go to church few times a year for holidays, chant a repetetive prayer every night, etc) are going straight for hell. The fact that my family, my parents, my friends would all go to hell because they didn't truly give up their worldly life for Jesus just has me frantically confused and scared.

I almost feel like giving up completely and going back to Atheism. Why do we have these fossil records of hominids and evidence of a really old Earth but none of it is mentioned in the Bible? What of the hominids before us? Did they all go to hell? Did they have souls? You can't deny their existence, the fossils are authentic and buried deep within the Earth undisturbed. Evolution, the continental drift theory, all these present compelling evidence.

But at the same time I would HATE to just give up God and Christ just because I can't give up the world for them. I feel as if I have to give up all my friends and family to follow them because the path is that narrow. Why waste your life pretending to be Christian when you aren't 100% faithful?

I'm a trainwreck right now and not sure what to do. I feel like all Catholics would go to hell for their idolatry and repetitive verses (none of which are ever mentioned in the Bible), but I have so many loved ones who are Catholic and would depress me to know they would suffer for eternity.

I know deception exists because God wants to test us but I sometimes feel EVERYONE is deceived because everyone says this group is deceived that group is deceived, etc. What of the Jews? Muslims? How do we know for certain we are the only right ones?

Sorry just felt like getting that off my chest. It's a lot to think about.

 

[Forge3]

Elaborate on what is a true Christian in your eyes. The Bible was not meant to be a scientific treatise.

 

[Mustang56]

Well, from what I understand, a true Christian is one that gives up their worldly life and interests (things that make you curse, angry, things which may lead you to sin), one that abides by all things told by Jesus and his Sermon on the Mount. Don't care about looking good or trying to fit in because Christians are to always face persecution, not just "I'm a Christian I go to church on Sunday" and people accept that. Most people mock those who decline to partake in certain activities or events that would contradict their faith like watching a UFC match, sports, drinking, playing violent video games. To me that is what a true Christian sounds to be. One that truly tries to be holy and perfect like their father in heaven.

To be honest, I'm confused as to what a true Christian is, that's part of the problem. It sounds like I'd have to give up my comforting worldly life to be a true Christian or else I'm wasting my efforts.

Not to mention everyday I interact with friends and family who aren't abiding Christians I can't shake the concept that they would go to the hell I believe sinners deserve. Including myself. It's hard to grasp and very discomforting, and I can't just force them to convert or read the bible.

EDIT: Plus I've been told by a lot of fundementalist biblical Christians that Catholics are all unsaved and have been greatly deceived because they don't follow the Bible alone and they add man made traditions with pagan origins and no biblical references and they aren't putting their faith on Christ alone when he says "I am the way". Just disturbs me that millions who try to follow Christ will be told on Judgement Day "I never knew you, depart from me" despite their praise of the Lord.

 

[Forge3]

Well, from what I understand, a true Christian is one that gives up their worldly life and interests (things that make you curse, angry, things which may lead you to sin), one that abides by all things told by Jesus and his Sermon on the Mount. Don't care about looking good or trying to fit in because Christians are to always face persecution, not just "I'm a Christian I go to church on Sunday" and people accept that. Most people mock those who decline to partake in certain activities or events that would contradict their faith like watching a UFC match, sports, drinking, playing violent video games. To me that is what a true Christian sounds to be. One that truly tries to be holy and perfect like their father in heaven.

To be honest, I'm confused as to what a true Christian is, that's part of the problem. It sounds like I'd have to give up my comforting worldly life to be a true Christian or else I'm wasting my efforts.

Not to mention everyday I interact with friends and family who aren't abiding Christians I can't shake the concept that they would go to the hell I believe sinners deserve. Including myself. It's hard to grasp and very discomforting, and I can't just force them to convert or read the bible.

EDIT: Plus I've been told by a lot of fundementalist biblical Christians that Catholics are all unsaved and have been greatly deceived because they don't follow the Bible alone and they add man made traditions with pagan origins and no biblical references and they aren't putting their faith on Christ alone when he says "I am the way". Just disturbs me that millions who try to follow Christ will be told on Judgement Day "I never knew you, depart from me" despite their praise of the Lord.

"One that truly tries to be holy and perfect like their father in heaven."


This with the help of God's grace. Endeavor to be loving and compassionate with yourself and others as you understand the Lord would be.

1 Corinthians 13
New International Version (NIV)
13 If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

You mentioned the recitation of words/prayer. Of course God does not want robots God wants the human beings He created. So if sombody is mindlessly reciting a pre-written formula it is hard to imagine how that would be pleasing though it may still be an act of faith. Personally I have prayed :"The Jesus Prayer and Hail Mary, Our Father etc" but I do it in my mind and from my heart giving thought to the words. What I have found essential is to pray from the heart. I speak in my own words and if they are charged with emotion or even frustration I bring it to the Lord because I want a real relationship with Him. I authentic so it would be difficult for Him to say He did not know me because I bare my soul and heart to him like a child to a Father.


Church is from the Latin word Ecclesia I believe which simply means community, or the community of believers so Church can happen as much in a Cathedral as in a pasture. It seems it is pleasing to Him when follow belivers gather in His name to celbrate His word and pray in common. Simply going out of obligation to get it over with and then think one is a good Christian because of their attendance record is a different matter.


Following the Bible: The Word is meant to be read, reflected upon, prayer over and discerned. You seem worried that Catholics have had theologians to help us understand the Word and extra inspiration from the Saints. The Bible is always the main inspiration to follow. Yet it is not harmful to be inspired by the lives of the Saints or insight from those who have studied Hebrew and Aramaic to interpret the old scripture as it was written and not just the Vulgate. The English versions are in themselves an interpretation.

 

[Harry3142]

Mustang56-

The definition of a Christian is one who has accepted the gift of salvation as God offers it. Romans 3:19-5:10, Romans 9:30-33, and Romans 10:5-13 make it clear that the righteousness we need in order to merit salvation is a righteousness which we must receive as a gift from God in exchange for our putting our trust totally in the efficacy of his Son's atoning sacrifice.

Jesus Christ himself taught his disciples that they could not expect to obtain salvation through their own efforts. In Matthew 19:16-26, he said quite clearly that the obeying of laws and commandments did not confer on their adherents perfection; it demanded much more of them than that. In fact, it demanded so much of them that no one could possibly do all that was required in order to attain that perfection. That's why salvation was possible only through the actions of God himself rather than the actions of men.

There is also a quirk in our psyche which prevents us from obeying laws and commandments perfectly. Paul described it in Romans 7:14-25, and psychologists have now identified it as an important part of all of us. This quirk is called 'paradoxical intention', and makes it impossible for us to accomplish what we try to do. Either it comes naturally to us, or it won't come at all. There's even an old saying which describes it: "The harder you try, the faster you fail."

So not only is our salvation totally dependent on what God has already accomplished for us, but our conduct as Christians is totally dependent on what God is still capable of accomplishing inside us. Instead of our trying to obey laws and commandments while using our original, sinful nature (a goal doomed to failure from the start) we are to accept a new nature, which is another gift from God.

Paul describes the motivations which are at the core of our sinful nature, as well as the motivations which are at the core of the nature which God's Spirit willingly implants within us, in Galatians 5:16-26. And it is only when our words and actions have as their impetus the motivations of this new nature ('the fruit of the Spirit') that what we say and do truly conforms to what God wants of us.

In order for the actions to be righteous, their underlying cause must also be righteous. And that only takes place when that underlying cause is the motivations listed as 'the fruit of the Spirit'. Just as 'the acts of the sinful nature' listed in this passage can be seen as the underlying motivations for every sinful act, 'the fruit of the Spirit' must be seen as the underlying motivations for every righteous act.

As for those who preach that only they have the correct answers, I have encountered a number of them in my 66 years. And in each and every case their real motivation was increasing their own dominance, or the dominance of the special-interest organization they really represented, over all those around them, rather than their enlightening anyone. This includes especially those whose rhetoric constantly condemns all Roman Catholics.

In fact, the most virulent attacks that I heard against RC's were spewed by a minister who was in reality a 'front man' for the Ku Klux Klan. The Roman Catholic Church came out against slavery as far back as 1537, when the encyclical 'In Sublimus Dei' was written by Pope Paul III. And in 1839 Pope Gregory XVI wrote the encyclical 'In Supremo Apostolatus', which was read in Baltimore, Md., in December of that same year. It soundly condemned slavery, and ordered that no Christians (aka RC's) were to approve of it either publicly or privately. Maryland had a sizable population of RC's, but was itself a slave state.

Many fundie denominations were originally begun in the antebellum South as apologists for slavery, so this encyclical was tantamount to a declaration of war against what they were really preaching under the guise of Christianity. Because of this they have hated the Roman Catholic Church, and the freedom from slavery that it holds fast to, ever since. I personally know this because my mother's family and ancestors going back to the 1840's were part of this fundie culture, and their hatred for all things Catholic, as well as the reason for their hatred, was always made clear.

Others have attacked the RCC out of envy. If they could wave a magic wand and obtain it, they would seize the power which the RCC had 600 years ago for themselves. And if they did obtain it, they would promptly use that power in order to cement their own authority over everyone else. With them the cross of Christ is merely a smokescreen hiding their true intent, namely, obtaining as much wealth and power for themselves as they can get.

God bless-

 

[Mustang56]

Thank you both for the responses. I agree that every pastor will say things that all sound good but it's for you to discern.

I never felt this pessimistic about Christianity until I heard some of Zac Poonen's sermons and how we must build our house upon the rock, we must stand firm with Christ, and abide by his commandments as faithful and truthfully as we can. He said that we may have to sacrifice our worldly lives to do so, for
-----"For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it." (Matthew 16:25)

So I took this as I have to give up secular things I like which may not seem holy.

And it made more sense as I read that basically what the truth is would be something I'd rather not hear,
-----"For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, (trying to be worldly while 'faithful to Christ') they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." (2 Timothy 4:3)

How would this verse make sense in today's world if everyone preaches God loves the world when he nearly destroyed it in Noah's time. Wouldn't the truth be something we would have difficulty accepting as said in this verse?

And that True Christians would be persecuted for strictly following Christ in this world
-----"You’re blessed when your commitment to God provokes persecution. The persecution drives you even deeper into God’s kingdom.” (Matthew 5:10)

-----“It is through many persecutions that we must enter the kingdom of God.” (Acts 14:22)

I mean, sure we scuffle with atheists sometimes, but I hardly feel like I'm persecuted in today's world for saying I'm a believing Christian. Instead, I see the radicals who claim God hates sinners, Catholics are going to hell, etc; that are being persecuted. And those people claim they are the true Christians

I'm sorry for asking for a lot of explanation here, it's just that with so many Christians preaching we will be deceived as it is said in the bible, how do we know if we are truly deceived??? For Jesus says on Judgement day that there will be those who accepted Christ, but he will say unto them 'Depart from me'. Doesn't that trouble you knowing people out there will spend their whole lives worshipping Christ as they think they should only to be told to go to hell?

 

[hedrick]

I think he's taking the wrong message out of the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus was attacking legalism, but you seem to be turning it into a new legalism.

Jesus was pretty clear that his goal was for people to care about each other and treat each other right. His reinterpretation of the 10 commandments in Mat 5 was focused on that.

But there's a couple of problems with the message you've heard:

1) Jesus never told us to leave the world. In fact he got in trouble with others precisely because he didn't. He hung out with the wrong people, and went to parties. (Lk 7:33-34)

2) While Jesus had high ideals, he also taught a loving and forgiving God, who will reward people as disciples for giving a cup of water to a disciple. (Mat 10:42)

You're right to be concerned about ways in which you aren't perfect, but it's wrong to doubt your salvation because of it. And I'm afraid some of the ideals you're failing on aren't even Jesus' ideals.

I worry about too much use of that "another Christ" phrase. It seems to occur primarily among people who are very narrow-minded and judgmental. I don't know anything about Poonen, so I can't say whether he is or not. But your description worries me. You should be very wary of the guys who are the only ones that have the truth and everyone else is going to hell.

 

[paul1149]

Mustang,

I discovered Zac many months ago, and the first subject he preached on, in two messages, I thought had a lot of insight and wisdom. I was delighted to have found him. But then I continued listening, and he quickly descended into works, to my surprise. It was a clear departure from grace, which saddened me because I cannot abide that.

So I would warn about listening exclusively to him. As others here have said, salvation comes by abandoning our own works and trusting Christ alone. If you walk in that, you are going to find Christ alive, well and working in many, many denominations. Yes, there is error everywhere, and that will be the case until we are glorified. But God's grace is greater. There is no need for malignant fear concerning this.

 

[Mustang56]

Thank everyone for your responses. You've all made it more clear to me what salvation requires. I've fallen into some old sin in the past day because I was frustrated and depressed with the notion that most Christians would be deceived. So many fundamentalists claim that we all worship a corrupted and false Christ over the years.

For anyone interested, the video I watched of Zac's preaching is called "(Last Days) Great Deception by Zac Poonen) On Youtube (I don't have 50 posts yet so I cannot post a link).


I ask for anyone who's read my banter to pray for me, I need them because the worst fear of mine is backsliding which I have done in the past day. I feel lost again. I almost tried to convince myself to accept worldly theories taught to me in universities again, but I just can't let go of God.

Ever since I accepted him back into my life 3 months ago it just hurts to push him away. This in itself I feel is enough evidence God indeed exists, that I have tried (albeit not as hard as I should have, but still on a good path) to cleanse myself of some sins (lust, swearing, using the Lord's name in vain, etc) and it was working because I was believing in the Lord to save me from sin. Or at least try to, because we are all sinful men who are in need of Jesus to save us.

 

[Shulamite7]

So recently I thought I was accepting Christ as my savior and starting to believe in God again, but then I start to realize we live in a world of deception, and how Christians would ALWAYS be persecuted.

I've listened to some of Zac Poonen's sermons recently (you can find them on Youtube) and he constantly warns that other preachers don't preach what Jesus did with his Sermon on the Mount, and that although other denominations seem godly and nice on the outside, he said to be careful of deception and discern.

Those who follow Christ should abide by all his commandments, not just some. To abide by the will of the Father.

I've been struggling because I still have things in my life which I feel aren't godly and may LEAD to sin but in itself aren't sinful (at least I don't think they are). But the passage regarding Jesus' second coming and how he will tell many that 'I never knew you, depart from me' frightens me. This passage has send my mind into a whirlwind in the past few days.

Many will claim to be Christian and accept Jesus as savior, but their lives will be wasted because they didn't worship the true Jesus. They didn't read the Bible and abide by his commandments, though they claim they have. And it's even more disturbing for those who just claim to be contemporary Christians (basically live your worldly life but feel obligated to go to church few times a year for holidays, chant a repetetive prayer every night, etc) are going straight for hell. The fact that my family, my parents, my friends would all go to hell because they didn't truly give up their worldly life for Jesus just has me frantically confused and scared.

I almost feel like giving up completely and going back to Atheism. Why do we have these fossil records of hominids and evidence of a really old Earth but none of it is mentioned in the Bible? What of the hominids before us? Did they all go to hell? Did they have souls? You can't deny their existence, the fossils are authentic and buried deep within the Earth undisturbed. Evolution, the continental drift theory, all these present compelling evidence.

But at the same time I would HATE to just give up God and Christ just because I can't give up the world for them. I feel as if I have to give up all my friends and family to follow them because the path is that narrow. Why waste your life pretending to be Christian when you aren't 100% faithful?

I'm a trainwreck right now and not sure what to do. I feel like all Catholics would go to hell for their idolatry and repetitive verses (none of which are ever mentioned in the Bible), but I have so many loved ones who are Catholic and would depress me to know they would suffer for eternity.

I know deception exists because God wants to test us but I sometimes feel EVERYONE is deceived because everyone says this group is deceived that group is deceived, etc. What of the Jews? Muslims? How do we know for certain we are the only right ones?

Sorry just felt like getting that off my chest. It's a lot to think about.

First of all, the fact that you are frightened about your salvation is a good sign. The Bible says to Work out your salvation with fear and trembling Phi 2:12.

I really do not bother to search for any scientific reasons to believe in the Bible. The Bible tells us to walk by faith and not by sight. For instance, something in your life comes your way and you know that it is sinful, you don't yield to it because the commandments of the Bible tells you, Don't. And you stay away from it. God will reward you. It may take you weeks or even months to realize it but you will soon realize when you look back how much God was true to His Word and how much He worked on your behalf because you did nothing wrong.

Yes, you are right about some christians. They are lukewarm and worldly and they think that going to church every week makes them right with God. They are so self-righteous. They prick us with their words when we dont go to church but when they don't go its justified and they keep silent. Don't look at them. Noone is a 100% good christian. The Bible says no one is righteous not one. It is God who shakes off the chaff sticking on to us and refines and purifies us. We cannot do that by our own works. All we have to do is stand on His Word and His promises.

Think of all that Jesus did for us on the cross and just try to come up higher each day in your walk with Him.

How can you know that you are an elect of God? The answer is given in 2 Peter 1:5-11. I advise you to please read it and be strengthened.

Please don't go back to atheism and throw away all that God has for you. I pray that you don't. Keep the faith. You will be richly rewarded.

 

[hedrick]

I ask for anyone who's read my banter to pray for me, I need them because the worst fear of mine is backsliding which I have done in the past day. I feel lost again. I almost tried to convince myself to accept worldly theories taught to me in universities again, but I just can't let go of God.

Ever since I accepted him back into my life 3 months ago it just hurts to push him away. This in itself I feel is enough evidence God indeed exists, that I have tried (albeit not as hard as I should have, but still on a good path) to cleanse myself of some sins (lust, swearing, using the Lord's name in vain, etc) and it was working because I was believing in the Lord to save me from sin. Or at least try to, because we are all sinful men who are in need of Jesus to save us.

Sure.

I'm not sure that desperately trying to stay in one place is such a good approach. I suggest not worrying so much about backsliding as looking how to move forward.

 

[Sketcher]

I've been struggling because I still have things in my life which I feel aren't godly and may LEAD to sin but in itself aren't sinful (at least I don't think they are). But the passage regarding Jesus' second coming and how he will tell many that 'I never knew you, depart from me' frightens me. This passage has send my mind into a whirlwind in the past few days.

Many will claim to be Christian and accept Jesus as savior, but their lives will be wasted because they didn't worship the true Jesus. They didn't read the Bible and abide by his commandments, though they claim they have. And it's even more disturbing for those who just claim to be contemporary Christians (basically live your worldly life but feel obligated to go to church few times a year for holidays, chant a repetetive prayer every night, etc) are going straight for hell. The fact that my family, my parents, my friends would all go to hell because they didn't truly give up their worldly life for Jesus just has me frantically confused and scared.

I almost feel like giving up completely and going back to Atheism.

Examining what you said here, I'm not seeing how going back to atheism is a rational decision. Surely if what Jesus said about the necessity of following him with integrity is true, and especially since you consider hell to be a fact, going to atheism is the least reasonable thing you can do. The reasonable thing to do is to draw nearer to God, to find out what needs to change in your life.

Now, what you stated the teaching to be is not entirely in context, which isn't helping your understanding of it. Matthew 7:21 is part of a unit, which is Matthew 7:15-25. Thus the emphasis in Matthew 7:21 is on the false teachers he tells us all to watch out for in Matthew 7:15. Those are the kinds of people who will appear pious in order to get themselves out of trouble with the law, or to make money off people. God sees through that fakeness. That is what happens when people who claim to be Christians without any integrity go into ministry. This isn't to say that people not in ministry can do whatever they want and still get to Heaven, but do understand the context of the passage. There is more that can be rightly gotten out of it, but I'm not going to say what the preacher you cited was right or wrong, not until you link me that sermon (or sermons) where he said these things.

Why do we have these fossil records of hominids and evidence of a really old Earth but none of it is mentioned in the Bible? What of the hominids before us? Did they all go to hell? Did they have souls? You can't deny their existence, the fossils are authentic and buried deep within the Earth undisturbed. Evolution, the continental drift theory, all these present compelling evidence.

Tell me which of these tenets of the faith that any of what you mention contradicts:

I believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth:
And in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, our Lord:
Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary:
Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell:
The third day he rose again from the dead:
He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty:
From there he shall come to judge the living and the dead:
I believe in the Holy Spirit:
I believe in the holy universal church: the communion of saints:
The forgiveness of sins:
The resurrection of the body:
And the life everlasting. Amen.

 

[hedrick]

I almost feel like giving up completely and going back to Atheism. Why do we have these fossil records of hominids and evidence of a really old Earth but none of it is mentioned in the Bible? What of the hominids before us? Did they all go to hell? Did they have souls? You can't deny their existence, the fossils are authentic and buried deep within the Earth undisturbed. Evolution, the continental drift theory, all these present compelling evidence.

I'm not sure whether it's wise to talk about this or not. If you try to settle too many things at once, you may end up just going around in circles. Poonan seems to have sent you off in a legalistic direction of doubting your salvation. There's no reason for that. I wonder if it would be best to put a hold on evolution for a while until you can regain your equilibrium.

The folks you're talking with here almost all accept evolution, and don't find any of these ideas to be a problem. I'd be happy to talk with you about it, and I'm sure several others would as well. But do you want us to? I'm not sure I'd recommend it. I'd sort of rather see you start by regaining confidence that God really has accepted you, and isn't going to give up on you.

 

[Mustang56]

Poonen seems to have sent you off in a legalistic direction of doubting your salvation.

I think this is the reason I became frustrated with myself the other day. I feel there is a long list of God's commands and trying to stay true to all of them, especially when Jesus goes further to explain during his Sermon on the Mount that thoughts are equivalent to actions, you seem hopeless that you would be perfect in God's eyes. I think I realize from the replies here that we are all sinners and no matter how hard we try to abide by God's law, we cannot save ourselves. You'd have to be as righteous as the pharisees. That's why it's essential that we put our faith to our Lord Jesus Christ to save us from ourselves. Correct?

That's not to say I can go and sin and not care, I try to clean up my life of sin but I still fall here and there. I try to repent after I commit a sin of course.

Also, I feel like this process will take some time. I've heard testimonials of other Christians who after they first found Christ it still took them a while before they were convinced they had found grace and would be saved. The thing is, I always feared death or Christ's second coming because I always felt like I wasn't ready because I could not always keep all of his commandments to heart, I would slip up from time to time and felt these small actions would just doom my salvation.

Honestly I really started to doubt the possibility of my own salvation when I read that on the Last Day, Jesus will tell many so called Christians to depart from him. I couldn't figure out exactly who those people will be. It seems he refers to the so called Christians who say they believe in God and Jesus but don't really take him into their hearts, they just live a worldly life like anyone else and fall to sin without thinking about it.

 

[paul1149]

we are all sinners and no matter how hard we try to abide by God's law, we cannot save ourselves. You'd have to be as righteous as the pharisees. That's why it's essential that we put our faith to our Lord Jesus Christ to save us from ourselves. Correct?

That is absolutely correct. One of the themes of the Sermon on the Mount is Jesus carrying the law to its ultimate logical conclusion. So he says, if you think you can depend on your own performance to earn eternal life, then try doing this - and then he says something like "love your enemies", or that if you merely hate you're committing murder, etc. He's intentionally bringing us to the end of ourselves, so that there is no possibility of the honest person trusting in his own self for salvation. That forces us, often quite in despair, to turn to our last hope, Jesus Himself.

But the good news is that when we do turn to Him He accepts us, and the more learn of Him and come to trust in Him, the more our fears are relieved, as the old hymn says. We experience His perfect love, and that love casts out fear.

There is a godly fear that is clean. It is an awesome reverence for the sovereign God who is over all. But there is also a worldly fear toward God that is malignant and paralyzes. There is nothing good about that fear, as it denies God's loving and kind nature, and the Lord would have us relieved of it.

A good conscience does demand that we do what we can to live a holy life, and repent when we blow it. But all that should occur in the context of grace, not works-salvation. The Lord wants us to abide in the joy of our salvation, because without it we are useless and can achieve nothing.

The end of the Sermon confirms all this. It is not those who prophesy, or who do good works, who will make it into the Kingdom, it is those whom Jesus intimately knows. While that can be a source of fear initially, ultimately it is our very deliverance and release. Because if our salvation does not depend on our hopelessly corrupted works, but rather on His complete and perfect works, then we are on a secure foundation indeed.

 

[Bible2]

Mustang56 said in post 14:

I would slip up from time to time and felt these small actions would just doom my salvation.

Every believer in the gospel (of 1 Cor. 15:1-4, Jn. 20:31) can know with perfect assurance he's presently saved (1 Jn. 5:13, 1 Cor. 15:1-4) if when he became a believer in the gospel he repented from his sins (1 Jn. 3:6) & confessed them to God (1 Jn. 1:9). And he can be sure as a saved person that he can never be separated from the love of God, so long as he loves God (Rom. 8:28-39), which means obeying him (1 Jn. 5:3, Jn. 14:21-24). And no matter how many tests a saved person fails during his lifetime (sometime subsequent to his initial repentance), even if he fails & commits sin 70 times 7 times in a single day (Mt. 18:21-22, Lk. 17:4), he can be sure that so long as he sincerely repents from every sin & confesses it to God, he'll be completely forgiven (1 Jn. 1:9). He'll lose his salvation in the end only if he wrongly employs his free will to do something like committing a sin without repentance (Heb. 10:26-29, 1 Cor. 9:27, Lk. 12:45-46), or becoming utterly lazy without repentance (Mt. 25:26,30, Jn. 15:2a, Rom. 2:6-8), or committing apostasy (Heb. 6:4-8, Jn. 15:6, 2 Tim. 2:12).

Honestly I really started to doubt the possibility of my own salvation when I read that on the Last Day, Jesus will tell many so called Christians to depart from him. I couldn't figure out exactly who those people will be.

Mt. 7:21-23 shows that both faith & actual obedience to God are required for believers to enter into ultimate salvation (Rom. 2:6-8, Heb. 5:9, Jas. 2:24). But there's no assurance they'll choose to obey (Mt. 25:26,30, Lk. 12:45-46).

Mt. 7:23a could be hyperbole (like, e.g., Mt. 23:24b is hyperbole), for Mt. 7:22 could refer to saved people, believers in the gospel (1 Cor. 15:1-4, Jn. 20:31), who'd repented from their sins (1 Jn. 3:6), & had truly performed many wonderful works for Jesus unto the end (Jn. 15:4-5), but at some point subsequent to their initial repentance they'd fallen back into some unrepentant sin (Mt. 7:23b, 2 Pet. 2:20-22), so that they had to be completely rejected by Jesus in the end despite their continued faith & good works (1 Cor. 9:27, 6:9-10, Heb. 10:26-29).

Re: the ability to cast out demons (Mt. 7:22), that's one of the signs people are saved, that they're believers in the gospel (Mk. 16:17).

 

[PROPHECYKID]

So recently I thought I was accepting Christ as my savior and starting to believe in God again, but then I start to realize we live in a world of deception, and how Christians would ALWAYS be persecuted.

I've listened to some of Zac Poonen's sermons recently (you can find them on Youtube) and he constantly warns that other preachers don't preach what Jesus did with his Sermon on the Mount, and that although other denominations seem godly and nice on the outside, he said to be careful of deception and discern.

Those who follow Christ should abide by all his commandments, not just some. To abide by the will of the Father.

I've been struggling because I still have things in my life which I feel aren't godly and may LEAD to sin but in itself aren't sinful (at least I don't think they are). But the passage regarding Jesus' second coming and how he will tell many that 'I never knew you, depart from me' frightens me. This passage has send my mind into a whirlwind in the past few days.

Many will claim to be Christian and accept Jesus as savior, but their lives will be wasted because they didn't worship the true Jesus. They didn't read the Bible and abide by his commandments, though they claim they have. And it's even more disturbing for those who just claim to be contemporary Christians (basically live your worldly life but feel obligated to go to church few times a year for holidays, chant a repetetive prayer every night, etc) are going straight for hell. The fact that my family, my parents, my friends would all go to hell because they didn't truly give up their worldly life for Jesus just has me frantically confused and scared.

I almost feel like giving up completely and going back to Atheism. Why do we have these fossil records of hominids and evidence of a really old Earth but none of it is mentioned in the Bible? What of the hominids before us? Did they all go to hell? Did they have souls? You can't deny their existence, the fossils are authentic and buried deep within the Earth undisturbed. Evolution, the continental drift theory, all these present compelling evidence.

But at the same time I would HATE to just give up God and Christ just because I can't give up the world for them. I feel as if I have to give up all my friends and family to follow them because the path is that narrow. Why waste your life pretending to be Christian when you aren't 100% faithful?

I'm a trainwreck right now and not sure what to do. I feel like all Catholics would go to hell for their idolatry and repetitive verses (none of which are ever mentioned in the Bible), but I have so many loved ones who are Catholic and would depress me to know they would suffer for eternity.

I know deception exists because God wants to test us but I sometimes feel EVERYONE is deceived because everyone says this group is deceived that group is deceived, etc. What of the Jews? Muslims? How do we know for certain we are the only right ones?

Sorry just felt like getting that off my chest. It's a lot to think about.

I think folks gave you some sufficient answers. Let me just warn you of 2 extremes. Legalism is an extreme which says that we are saved by our works and we must do and do and do in order to be good enough to get into heaven. But there is the opposite extreme which is actually more common. Its the idea that you don't need to bother with works, or obedience and you don't need to do anything except sit back and have faith in what God has done for you.

You referenced a scripture that is very real and very important. Many will come claiming to be of God, speaking nice things, casting out devils but when God comes he will claim he does not know them. Why? Because they were not obedience to his word and his will and they were workers of iniquity. Therefore, we cannot act as if we can do as we please because of Grace. If you are pulled over by a police for speeding, and he decided to give you grace and let you of the hook, you don't say "Thank you officer" and speed of at 70mph. Instead you try to drive according to the traffic rules. That is a sign of gratitude. Us wanting to live a life pleasing to God isn't for our own salvation but because we are greatful to God for how good he has been to us and because of the grace he has given. That is why we would try to be obedient to his commandments and his word. That is how you strike the balance between the 2 extremes.

Now concerning your science questions, I recommend you to a guy named Walter Veith. He was an athiest and because a creationist because of his study of science. His story is an amazing one and his lectures concerning science and the bible are excellent. These are sure to help you.

Browse Media - The Genesis Conflict - English - Amazing Discoveries TV

 

[Alive_Again]

I know deception exists because God wants to test us but I sometimes feel EVERYONE is deceived because everyone says this group is deceived that group is deceived, etc. What of the Jews? Muslims? How do we know for certain we are the only right ones?

One thing to get straight is that all believers, no matter what denomination they are in can go to Heaven if they repent of their sins and believe in Jesus' work on the cross, shedding His blood, and raising from the dead for our justification. Yes, we are all called to lay our lives down, but we don't just die, we get to rise up in resurrection life.

Yes we are called to not be of the world. Christianity is the most exciting lifestyle their ever was. It is important to be established in your faith. To be plugged into the church God wants you in. To be serving and loving others. Whatever you give up for God, you'll get a hundred times more both in this world and in the world to come.

God still speaks today. This should be your highest quest, to become expert in discerning the voice of God in your heart. One thing God has said recently is that although some denominations embrace some things that are not of Him, He sees their heart and if they believe and want Jesus, if they endeavor to please Him and trust Him, He'll take them to Paradise, a place in Heaven where you learn God's ways. If people don't learn them here, they will learn them in Heaven.

You can learn God's ways here and know Him intimately. The abundant life He speaks of in the Word is what we want. We press into Him and seek to lose ourselves. The more we accomplish this, the more we receive of Him. Find someone that really knows Him and talk to them and
ask what they do.

The fact that my family, my parents, my friends would all go to hell because they didn't truly give up their worldly life for Jesus just has me frantically confused and scared.

The Word says that when you believe on Jesus, that you and your household will be saved. This is something He's been really getting across to me the last few months. He puts your family on a special list. What is dear to you is dear to Him. He'll work to create circumstances to bring your family to salvation. Angels working in the background, etc. He'll use "all things" to work together to bring about their conversion or repentance. Even if they are unconscious in their death bed, He'll turn their heart to hear the good news, and they'll hear it, because He loves them and because of your faithfulness to Him. We'd be all freaked out in prayer all of the time if we don't believe that He'll do this for all of our loved ones. He wants to set us free from fear. He wants us to know that we CAN commit our burden to Him, not just "we're supposed to", but because He CAN do something about it. The prayers of His people are powerful and if the enemy can obscure you from that knowledge, he'll keep you unsure and feeling like an orphan.

I'm holding up someone very special to me and I'm trusting He'll turn their heart around from a horrible backsliding. It looks hopeless but God has been asking me to pray in faith, speaking victory over their lives. If I didn't believe that my prayers were HUGELY effectual, I'd be freaked out that this person walked away from a wonderful life.

God wants to train us to better intercede for our loved ones and the lost.

Find a church with an anointing. A Spirit filled church and you can get excited about being a Christian. Talk to people who have supernatural experiences with God. Listen to testimonies on Youtube. Find out what they're doing. Let God light a fire in your life. If you stick with it long enough, you'll have them too. God wants you to have a living vibrant testimony for Him. There's power in it. In fact, once you get a working revelation of your authority in this world and His provision as laid out in His Word, you'll realize that you serve a God (as a Son) who owns all things. You have an inheritance, not just in Heaven, but waiting for you in this world. You have to be "tutored" by the Spirit of God to walk in it. You must meditate on the Word of God. Speak it out loud! Get established in it.

There are things in the world that defile and if you've been taking part in it, then you've got a little junk that makes your walk heavy and cumbersome. You can be free, but you've got to separate yourself from things like horror movies, games with magical, fleshy, or demonic themes, a lot of worldly music (which leads people to speak things contrary to the blessing God has for them), etc. It looses demonic spirits in your life. Get into the flow of the Spirit. It's the only thing that satisfies. If you haven't already, read about and receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit. This is a real life changer!

Once put some distance between you and some things God would separate you from, you'll look back and consider them dung compared to what you're walking in. There's a big move of God coming to this earth, where the glory of the Lord will cover it like the waters of the sea. He's going to baptize His church with fire and for a time, some serious love will be manifest. Greater works "than these" will be manifest. You want to position yourself for it because it IS coming.

You CAN experience the times of refreshing from the presence of the Lord though in the here and now. It's restorative and you can be a tree planted by the rivers of water.

 

[tomana]

to the OP :

You asked:

"Why do we have these fossil records of hominids and evidence of a really old Earth but none of it is mentioned in the Bible? What of the hominids before us?"

Just because a scientist tells you he knows what fleshly face was on a skull doesn't mean he really knows, because he doesn't. Your guess is every bit as valid as his. Until just a short time ago, scientists were all saying that a Brontosaurus would be most often found wading in swampy waters until it finally dawned on them, the Brontosaurus would have sunk into the muddy bottom and perished.

God invented science but regardless how convincingly right someone may sound or be, No holy Spirit = not saved = not of the Lord Jesus Christ - period. Jesus said unless you are born of water and the Spirit, you ain't His.

From CHARLES SPURGEON - THE SWORD AND THE TROWEL. - APRIL, 1868.

"To preach the gospel as it is revealed, is to these men to be servile; to mutilate it is independence of mind; to be simple and fervent is to adopt conventional verbiage and conventional solemnity. Yes, conventional, that is the word, which is over and over again dealt out judicially, as though it meant something criminal. Scattered all over England and Scotland are self-educated men who have been called of God to be soul-winners, who care not a jot for what Darwin or Colenso, or even the great Scotch Latitudinarians may have to say for themselves who are doing their work all the better because they have eschewed the refinements of modern skepticism"

Darwin made the error of accepting into his heart what is called "heresy" (false teachings, in this case 'modern skepticism'). By the time he began his Theory of Evolution studies, he was already well on his way to perdition. I hope he turned around before he left this life but I do not know such things about him to be able to say.

John F. MacArthur did a write up about Spurgeon, Darwin and the Down-Grade Controversy

Spurgeon and the Down-Grade Controversy

"He gave specific examples of how tolerance had led to disaster, noting that the "tadpole of Darwinism was hatched. . . [in a pew] of the old chapel in High Street, Shrewsbury," where Charles Darwin had first been introduced to skepticism by a pastor who was enthralled with Socinianism. And he noted that the chapel once pastored by Matthew Henry, author of the famous commentary on the whole Bible, had for years been teaching "full-blown Socinianism.""

 

[Alive_Again]

Between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2, millions of years take place. The word "was" ("was without form and void" is translated "became" many other places in the Bible.

What some people would call "fundamentalism", people who rely on scripture as the final authority, even if it defies archaeological evidence, hold fast to a topical understanding of the Word. Their faith is to be admired. According to knowledge though, it is misplaced. Absolute faith in God's Word IS to be adhered to, but we don't always understand the Word fully.

Take a look at the continents. You can tell that at one time, they used to be together in one large land mass. The earth is VERY old, and although it will be purged with fire, the earth will always be (according to scripture). It has been around a LONG time. The dinosaurs have been found to have undigested food in their stomachs, indicating an actual ice age.

Science and the Word do meet. Where they don't seem to, it means that we either don't understand the Word, or scientific "evidence" is presumption.

There is no evolution. There were no other men on this earth either prior to Adam.

Many people in the world do not give credence to scripture because they think it contradicts with actual evidence. If they really heard the scripture they would become Christians because the Word and real scientific evidence match 100%, all of the time. (This just means that the truth is really the truth even if it takes a long time for conclusive evidence to indicate that).