"I'm not an expert, BUT......."

[Split Rock]

Nope -- It uses geocentric terminology, so as to maintain Its ease of understanding the passage and teachability (to little children).

How about this ancillary idea:

The bible uses allegory, so as to maintain its ease of understanding the passage and teachability (to little children)?

Why do you accept the former, but not the latter? I think it is because of the way you want to interpret scripture, not because of the way it should be interpreted.

 

[AV1611VET]

How about being a little more honest about fallibility?

Refusing to admit something for the satisfaction of non-believers has nothing to do with honesty (or the lack thereof).

Even Jesus refused to 'admit' He was God, using the inquisition's terminology.

 

[AV1611VET]

They wrote about things the way they understood them... not necessarily how they really were.

I'm not sure who you mean by 'they', but for the record, I wasn't aware Joshua was writing about the configuration of our solar system.

Not sure what that is refering to.

You know -- behind bars -- for marching off on a crusade to find a witch, putting her through the inquisition, then killing her.

 

[Split Rock]

Refusing to admit something for the satisfaction of non-believers has nothing to do with honesty (or the lack thereof).

That's a rather arrogant statement, isn't it? And not one I agree with at all.

Even Jesus refused to 'admit' He was God, using the inquisition's terminology.

That's a very interesting interpretation... however, I have often questioned whether Jesus ever claimed to be God. If I am correct, then his refusal to "admit" he was God was simply a refutation of a fallacy.

 

[Split Rock]

I'm not sure who you mean by 'they', but for the record, I wasn't aware Joshua was writing about the configuration of our solar system.

"They" refers to the authors.

You know -- behind bars -- for marching off on a crusade to find a witch, putting her through the inquisition, then killing her.

If you agreed with my interpretation of scripture, you would not think that the bible means you should hunt witches, or start a crusade.

 

[AV1611VET]

If you agreed with my interpretation of scripture, you would not think that the bible means you should hunt witches, or start a crusade.

Thanks for clarifying.

What was it you called me the other day?

You are a "cut above", Split Rock --

(Actually, I'm serious. I find you much easier to talk to that most of the others, due to your knowledge of theological doctrine.)

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

Thanks for clarifying.

What was it you called me the other day?

You are a "cut above", Split Rock --

(Actually, I'm serious. I find you much easier to talk to that most of the others, due to your knowledge of theological doctrine.)

Koran 17.16 And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction.

 

[mzungu]

Refusing to admit something for the satisfaction of non-believers has nothing to do with honesty (or the lack thereof).

Even Jesus refused to 'admit' He was God, using the inquisition's terminology.

But perhaps he was right! After all it was not till the Nicene creed (300 years after the death of Christ) that Jesus was made God. Jesus never claimed to be God! There is nowhere in the Bible that he claims to be God.

The I and my father are one is something I can say about my father too.

As for the Alpha and Omega? Well this still does not constitute a claim to be God himself.

After all Jesus did say "I am the son of Man"!

The problem is that for the first 300 years of Christianity, Jesus was a prophet (this is what Muslims still believe today).

 

[AV1611VET]

The I and my father are one is something I can say about my father too.

Would you say you and your father are yacheed or echad, though?

How about this one?

Mark 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
6 But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,
7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

Or this doosey?

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

 

[Doveaman]

God commanded the Sun to stop (Isaiah 40:22 & Job 26:7) This is only possible if the sun orbits the Earth. Otherwise God would have commanded the Earth to stop!

The sun does not rise. This is only possible if the sun orbits the Earth. So what do scientists mean by "sunrise"?

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

Would you say you and your father are yacheed or echad, though?

How about this one?

Mark 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
6 But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,
7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

Or this doosey?

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Here's a doosey.

Koran20.73 Surely we believe in our Lord that He may forgive us oursins and the magic to which you compelled us; and Allah is better and more abiding.

Or this?

Koran 62.1 Whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth declares the glory of Allah, the King, theHoly, the Mighty, the Wise.

 

[DaisyDay]

In most careers, being wrong too often is grounds for dismissal. False prophets in ancient kingdoms were stoned or shamed out of town. Only in science, it seems, can experts consistently get it wrong, and not only keep their jobs, but be highly esteemed as experts.

Shall we name a few at random?

Mercury was once the most popular medicinal metal a famed cure for syphilis, indigestion, old age and almost everything else,

What was the scientific reasoning behind this? As far as I know, there wasn't much actual science in medicine before the nineteenth century.

If the brain wasn't working right, why not just take part of it out? That was kind of the logic behind lobotomies, a practice that came of age in the middle of the 20th century. Doctors claimed the "ice-pick-to-the-freaking-eye" method of lobotomy would be as quick and easy as a trip to the dentist.

Dentistry in the middle of the 20th century wasn't exactly quick or easy in my experience.

Before the government stepped in science sold soothing syrups for children that contained morphine, codeine, heroin, opium and even cannabis.

Was it science that sold patent medicines? Science, well chemists, discovered these compounds and how to make them and doctors noted how people react to them - but I don't think that "science" sold these syrups.

All in all it seems that your argument against science and scientists is that knowledge is gained over time through observation and experiment rather than instantly by divine intuition.

 

[Nostromo]

The abortionists?

They're a bit late if they're coming along during childbirth.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Then by all means, do it for those you think would understand -- like your contemporaries.

Feel free to tell them who used science to commit atrocities; don't let lil' ol' me stop you.

So, you're too afraid to discuss people? Like everything else, you need other people to do your work for you?

 

[Naraoia]

I am not sure when did those fake birds appeared. I guess it is in late Cretaceous.

Mid- or Late Jurassic at the latest, but could be even earlier if I forgot something. Archaeopteryx is Late Jurassic, and off the top of my head Pedopenna and Anchiornis are both older. Bird-birds are Early Cretaceous onward.

(You do know that the Cretaceous makes up something like half the age of dinosaurs.)

And why "fake"? Any actual evidence that they are fake? Does Anchiornis have fake melanosomes?

So, what did evolution do to the dinosaur during Triassic and Jurassic time?

It turned this sort of animal into this, this, this and this, among others.

And why did dinosaurs "wait" till Cretaceous to change?

... yeah. They really didn't. You seem completely unaware of dinosaur diversity and history. Dinosaurs being popular as they are, that's probably one of the easiest gaps of scientific knowledge to fill in... (And they are one area where Wikipedia tends to be a good source.)

Fire is not part of us. Raise fire is not a unique function of our body. We do not need fire to survive.

A wasp nest is not part of the wasp. Making paper is not a unique function of the wasp body. Most wasp species do quite fine without paper nests. So what?

I see you conveniently forgot to tell me which defining characteristics of animals we lack. I didn't forget my question, though. Any ideas?

(Of course, it would be easier if you actually knew what an animal was...)

Random means no trend. What is wrong with that?

One, it's not the definition of random, two, I've just shown it wrong in front of your eyes.

Apart from that, nothing

(your little program defined the random, not the trend).

And the random defined the trend.

Evolution is random. Why is it not?

*points to Lion Hearted's post*, although with caveats.

Mutation is random, and is not the only thing that occurs in evolution. Natural selection is not a random process at all.

I swear that I and many others have brought this up to you before.

FWIW, I'm still not sure if it's right to say natural selection is not random. It defines a statistical trend, sure, but good genes don't guarantee reproductive success.

I think when I brought this up in a thread here, someone reminded me that Hardy-Weinberg + selection does evolve deterministically with time. So maybe it's better to call natural selection chaotic as opposed to random.

Gah, I feel so thick contemplating this. Stupid population genetics.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Hey look, AV trying to make it about geocentrism instead of addressing the point. I must be a prophet.

You can't expect the likes of AV to stand up for something when it's far easier to scurry away from it.

 

[Nostromo]

The sun does not rise. This is only possible if the sun orbits the Earth. So what do scientists mean by "sunrise"?

Indeed, those terms are not strictly correct.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Indeed, those terms are not strictly correct.

But then again, nobody's claiming those terms are inspired by God, and are literally true down to the last jot and tittle.

 

[mzungu]

Would you say you and your father are yacheed or echad, though?

How about this one?

Mark 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
6 But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,
7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

Or this doosey?

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

None of the above have enything to do with Jesus claiming to be God!

 

[Nathan Poe]

None of the above have enything to do with Jesus claiming to be God!

Who expects it to? AV turns to distraction when he's got nothing else -- which is his usual state.