im no longer a christian... anyone understand?

The Goodly Knight · Aug 17, 2005

Endure2 said:
im trying to find hope outside of Christ, becuase i dont believe in him anymore. im not asking anyone to help me bash christianity... i was just venting and i also dont want to be a part of trying to dismantle this wide spread belief system im no longer a part of...does anyone understand how i feel?

jASonOfGod · Aug 17, 2005

mlukas said:
Jason, respectfully, you are dodging every question Endure 2 or I lob at you by hiding behind the cliche christian verses on things...you profess to never doubt God or his ways but, I seriously doubt that is the case.
You are only 21, at 21 I didn't know my own soul from a hole in the ground, if you don't doubt now, if you unquestioningly don't turn around and truly examine things in your own mind, with your own thoughts, your "faith" will, at some point, crash down around you.
I agree with Jason, you are arrogant, and if you beleive you have all the answers simply because you can quote scripture, I think you are in for a rude awakening one day...
of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong
But I doubt it...

Are you a "Christian"?
Then why do you keep frowning on my use of scripture?
Do you not believe the Bible is true?
How do you know Christ or His ways without the Holy Scriptures?

I believe man makes mistakes, I believe God does not.
Why should I not back up all of what I say,
with perfect truth already shown in the Bible?

I guess you have enjoyed my last few posts.
(Got rid of those cliche scriptures.)

In the Love and Truth of Jesus Christ my Lord and Saviour, Jason

jASonOfGod · Aug 17, 2005

The Goodly Knight said:

'Serving God Always' Goodly Knight?

He was asking for help, and God will always help those who really want it.

Nabob · Aug 17, 2005

jASonOfGod said:
Enjoy what life?

Take care of what? Why would you have a care?
Do you mean be careful that you don't die, or get hurt?
So that you can keep living a split second life that has no meaning whatsover?

I'm not trying to sound rude.
I was really wandering these things.

In the Love of Jesus Christ my Lord and Saviour, Jason

I don't think you have to try to sound rude. It comes quite naturally to you.
The numerous things that are discussed here are only opinions unless someone can prove otherwise. They are not the truth, no matter how much you would like them to be. Maybe I'm wrong, but you appear to be afraid of dying.
Nabob:

Nabob · Aug 17, 2005

mlukas said:
Nabob,
I have to disagree with your quote (the one below your post..) I can see in the world how it does have truth to it, HOWEVER, if anyone asks you to turn your intellect off and become a Christian they haven't thought through their faith enough...
No aggression intended, just a thought!

M

No aggression taken:
Becoming a christian is the easiest thing in the world. Maintaining the chrisitan faith is another matter, since it invloves much mental gymanstics in order to accept the things we read in the bible. It doesn't really make any sense!
Nabob:

jASonOfGod · Aug 17, 2005

Nabob said:
I don't think you have to try to sound rude. It comes quite naturally to you.
The numerous things that are discussed here are only opinions unless someone can prove otherwise. They are not the truth, no matter how much you would like them to be. Maybe I'm wrong, but you appear to be afraid of dying.
Nabob:

Why do Non-Christians (and usually Anti-Christians)
always do the reverse psychology thing?

I knew that those words would be perverted, I have removed some things,
so that this will not turn into a hate Jason thread,
not because I don't want to be hated, for I know I am,
but so that we can discuss more important things.

What's up with the afraid of dying thing?
I love my Lord, and know where He will now allow me to go after death.
But even if I were to burn in Hell,
I would be getting the Just punishment that I deserved
from the Perfect Judge who will judge all, including you.

In the Love and Truth of Jesus Christ my Lord and my Saviour, Jason

jASonOfGod · Aug 17, 2005

Nabob said:
No aggression taken:
Becoming a christian is the easiest thing in the world. Maintaining the chrisitan faith is another matter, since it invloves much mental gymanstics in order to accept the things we read in the bible. It doesn't really make any sense!
Nabob:

1 Corinthians 1:18-31
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. (19) For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. (20) Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? (21) For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. (22) For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: (23) But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; (24) But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. (25) Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. (26) For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: (27) But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; (28) And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to naught things that are: (29) That no flesh should glory in his presence. (30) But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: (31) That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

In the Truth and Love of Jesus Christ my Lord and Saviour, Jason

mlukas · Aug 17, 2005

jASonOfGod said:
Are you a "Christian"?
Then why do you keep frowning on my use of scripture?
Do you not believe the Bible is true?
How do you know Christ or His ways without the Holy Scriptures?

I believe man makes mistakes, I believe God does not.
Why should I not back up all of what I say,
with perfect truth already shown in the Bible?

I guess you have enjoyed my last few posts.
(Got rid of those cliche scriptures.)

In the Love and Truth of Jesus Christ my Lord and Saviour, Jason

Yes I am , and I beleive in the scriptures as mucha s the next guy HOWEVER, sometimes people need MORE than just a bunch of verses thrown at them. It, sometimes, accomlishes little, especially if an individual (not you lee....so don't take this the wrong way..) comes from a standpoint of NOT knowing christ at all or is doubting Christ. If the scriptures were all that was needed to help and convince others, than there would be no need for Christian apologetics and people like Hank Hanegraph OR C.S. Lewis (just to name a few...). The bible IS perfect truth, but for it to be real you have to question WHY it is the truth.
Just because it says so...not good enough. Not for me, and, if I may be so bold, not enough for any other thinking Christian.
When my kids (I have 3) were younger, they did what I said because of who I am, their Dad. However, as they get older, my title and word is not enough, nor should it be. They will see, through LIFE and me EXPLAINING things to them that what I teach them is right (or wrong..as I am not God and am therefore prone to be pretty wrong sometimes...)
My point...
My word is not, will not be enough for them at some point. They will have to question and find out things on their own AND by having me explain, BEYOND the age old cliche of "father knows best.." WHY I beleive and/or know that things are the way they are. That type of explaining gives MEANING and meat, and wisdom, and truth to what I have been spouting to them their whole lives up until now.
The bible is true. Christ is true. But it's not enough to convince some people, because the bible holds no authority for some.
God can reach people in a milion different ways, I know this. And I also believe that just spouting scripture to people who doubt or don't know God at all, or just people looking for some everyday understanding and compassion, does little to nothing. If anything, it willdrive them further away.
Christ didn't respond to peoples pain by spouting scripture and accusing them of being faithless, he responded in love, and compassion, with an understanding heart. Accusation and spouting of the scripture cannot accomlish this.
Now it's my turn to quote scripture
"1 Corinthians 13:1-3 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned,[a] but have not love, it profits me nothing."
Spouting scripture is one thing, "understanding all mysteries.." is one thing, but without the love needed to see WHAT other's really need it all means nothing. All the biblical knowledge, memorized scriptures, ability to quote scripture. It all means nothing without the love to see what people truly need behind it.
Scriptures are great, but not for every circumstance with every person you meet.

mlukas · Aug 17, 2005

Nabob said:
No aggression taken:
Becoming a christian is the easiest thing in the world. Maintaining the chrisitan faith is another matter, since it invloves much mental gymanstics in order to accept the things we read in the bible. It doesn't really make any sense!
Nabob:

LOL! there is some truth to that, becoming a christian is easy. It's what follows that gets complicated at times. We'd probably disagree on the "mental gymnastics" thing but Ithink I understand what you are saying.
And, admitedly, some things in the Bible to me DON'T make sense. These things, issues that bother me I continue to explore. I don't think the definition of a Christian is one who doesn't doubt anything, any real person would admit doubt and problems with some things in the Bible.
But, speaking only for myself, the core of it all comes down to I truly beleive that God does exist just based on the complexity and order and design of the world we live in. It always comes back to that for me.
As far as the Christian God specifically, even though some things in the bible perplex me I find it to be true. If I find 90% of it to make sense,and I see the truth of it play out in my life, it's easier for me to take the remaining 10% of doubt and non-understanding on faith.
And, you have to admit, even if you don't believe in a Divine creator or a God of any sort, you still have to take some things in life on pure faith (personal belief) alone..

UnitedinChristweStand · Aug 17, 2005

Hi Endure2,

You mentioned that you "don't believe in Jesus anymore", is it that you don't believe that a person named Jesus walked on the Earth 2,000 years ago, or is it that you don't believe in His divinity or both?

For the last part, it depends on what you call "hope".

jASonOfGod · Aug 17, 2005

mlukas said:
Yes I am , and I beleive in the scriptures as mucha s the next guy HOWEVER, sometimes people need MORE than just a bunch of verses thrown at them. It, sometimes, accomlishes little, especially if an individual (not you lee....so don't take this the wrong way..) comes from a standpoint of NOT knowing christ at all or is doubting Christ. If the scriptures were all that was needed to help and convince others, than there would be no need for Christian apologetics and people like Hank Hanegraph OR C.S. Lewis (just to name a few...). The bible IS perfect truth, but for it to be real you have to question WHY it is the truth.
Just because it says so...not good enough. Not for me, and, if I may be so bold, not enough for any other thinking Christian.
When my kids (I have 3) were younger, they did what I said because of who I am, their Dad. However, as they get older, my title and word is not enough, nor should it be. They will see, through LIFE and me EXPLAINING things to them that what I teach them is right (or wrong..as I am not God and am therefore prone to be pretty wrong sometimes...)
My point...
My word is not, will not be enough for them at some point. They will have to question and find out things on their own AND by having me explain, BEYOND the age old cliche of "father knows best.." WHY I beleive and/or know that things are the way they are. That type of explaining gives MEANING and meat, and wisdom, and truth to what I have been spouting to them their whole lives up until now.
The bible is true. Christ is true. But it's not enough to convince some people, because the bible holds no authority for some.
God can reach people in a milion different ways, I know this. And I also believe that just spouting scripture to people who doubt or don't know God at all, or just people looking for some everyday understanding and compassion, does little to nothing. If anything, it willdrive them further away.
Christ didn't respond to peoples pain by spouting scripture and accusing them of being faithless, he responded in love, and compassion, with an understanding heart. Accusation and spouting of the scripture cannot accomlish this.
Now it's my turn to quote scripture
"1 Corinthians 13:1-3 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned,[a] but have not love, it profits me nothing."
Spouting scripture is one thing, "understanding all mysteries.." is one thing, but without the love needed to see WHAT other's really need it all means nothing. All the biblical knowledge, memorized scriptures, ability to quote scripture. It all means nothing without the love to see what people truly need behind it.
Scriptures are great, but not for every circumstance with every person you meet.

You make some good points,
none that validate not needing scripture for every circumstance.
Every word I say must line up with God's Word, every word of every man
outside of scripture whether it be John Bunyan, C.S. Lewis, or the Pope,
must line up with the Word of God, or else it is not true.
Everything in this life is perfectly explained within the Bible.

Romans 10:1-21
(1) Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. (2) For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. (3) For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. (4) For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. (5) For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. (6) But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above: ) (7) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) (8) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; (9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (11) For the Scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. (12) For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. (13) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (14) How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? (15) And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! (16) But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? (17) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (18) But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. (19) But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. (20) But Isaiah is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. (21) But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

The Word of God is alive,
I can not stop speaking the Word through all that I do,
whether the direct quotes of Bible come out or not.
You have a problem with preaching to people with a tool
that they do not even believe in? I see what you mean.

BUT, you can not speak one good thing to a man,
if it is not found in the Holy Word of the Living God.

As for Love, I'll go with God's definition, not mans.

How are my words not loving?
The truth is an offense,
but it is true love, whether the person gets upset from it or not.

I know of taking part in this world, I know the truth from both sides.
I know of being a hypocrite, who thought he knew the things of God.
But, I was not educated enough to understand God's truth's.
I relied on too many people to tell me the truth of God.
Instead of finding it out on my own,
THROUGH THE WORD OF GOD AND THOSE WHO SPOKE IT.

In the Truth and LOVE of Jesus Christ my Lord and Saviour, Jason

UnitedinChristweStand · Aug 17, 2005

i just dont believe this anymore, becuase i dont want philosophy or reasoning or words, if he is real then i want to see him myself, im sure hes more than capable.

Yes, He is more than capable. But it is faith that pleases God. Jesus said to some guys from His day, "Because you have seen and believed, blessed are those who have not seen yet believed."

i dont mean to sound arogant, but i cant try to live something that calls for me to give up alot of things i enjoy doing and to believe in something i really dont know for sure is real... when the brilliance of mans understanding and witty thinking comes to an end... it may not have ever been true.
On the other side of the coin, what if it is true? Then you're screwed (to put it bluntly).

im beginning to feel christianity is based on ignorance and fear.

Many have made such similar claims. Christianity is about getting into an intimate relationship with God based on grattiude for what he has done. I never believed in God and so forth because I'm ignorant (quite the opposite) and am afraid of dying - I became a Christian because I'm grateful for what He has done for me out of His love for me. It wasn't the nails that held Him to the cross (as He said, He could have called out on His Father and several legions of angels would come and attend to Him) - it was His love for you and His love for me that held Him there. When you think about how He took the penalty that I deserved and how He saves me from the fate that I deserve - I just laugh and am grateful! I know that my friends wouldn't have died on the cross for me. They wouldn't have went through half of what Jesus did. How much more then does Jesus love me? When confronted with that much grace and love - I'm almost obligated to do so in return. I freely choose to follow Him and love Him in return.

ignorance of another explanation or rebuttal to the lofty thoughts, proverbs, apparent truths or explanation of our existence and deep fear of a dreadful end without his grace.

Then isn't everyone by your definition "ignorant" and all religions based on "ignorance"? By your definition no one can be sure of anything. In fact, I can't even be sure that I'm writing this message to your because there are an infinite amount of other "possible" explanations for what I am doing. Either things are true or they aren't. If truth is A, then all other "explanations" B through to Z are false. Christians believe that Christianity is true (hence why they follow it) and thus all the other religions must be false because they all contradict what we perceive to be truth - therefore they must be wrong. Atheists believe that atheism is true because they contradict what atheism teaches, and so it goes on.

when i ask him to let me see him or show me a miracle or something beyond just apologetics or reason, it doesnt happen. and im not demanding of him, but really sincerely asking him... i want to see him... but he never shows himself to me.

And you honestly wonder why He won't let you see Him while you're still here? Because He is Holy and you would die if your eyes were to ever lay sight on Him and His Glory. This is why God wouldn't let Moses see His face. For two, your faith may not be that great. Moses walked and talked with God and was that intimate that God allowed Moses to see Him from behind.

i feel like i was just brainwashed all my life.

And how would a different religion or belief change that feeling? All religions, including non-God based religions, are taught as though they are truth because their follows believe it to be true...

and if im truely wrong and deceived... then im not just fustrated or angry or kinda mislead... im on my way to a dreadful hell... and God knows this... if he loves me then why doesnt he talk to me so i will stop this doubting... and not burn for eternity? doesnt he understand that if hes real i really do want to see him, if hes real i want to know.i hope he isnt angry at me, i hope he doesnt let me wander blindly into a burning hell unknowingly just becuase i began to doubt or maybe even got a bit arogant.

He's given more then enough to convince you of His existence. Paul says that God has revealled Himself through His creation. In other words, He has put that much design into nature that people are convinced of His existence so that if they don't believe they are without excuse. The Bible itself serves evidence for God's existence. Paul Himself is further evident of Jesus' existence. Paul was more than happy continuing on His way in persecuting Christians and killing them, destroying their churches, etc, etc. Why change? He changed 180 degrees and from being the persecutor to the persecuted and was eventually martyered in 65 AD in Rome. Why would He do all of this if He really didn't meet Jesus? Why die for something that you know to be a lie or believe to be a lie? That just makes no sense. We also have the various accounts of miracles that point towards God's existence.

All three things are evidence for God's existence. If none of these three things convince you, then you are without excuse. I haven't seen God, but I believe in Him because of the three things listed above - not out of "ignorance" or anything else.

You'll wonder into hell by your own and with your full knowledge. The Bible says that Christ is the only way to heaven - therefore, if you reject Him you most likely won't get into heaven. The only way to believe in Jesus is through faith.

Good luck on your spirtual journey, I pray you return to Christ - but that's your choice.

IrishGob · Aug 17, 2005

Jason,

IMO - You are the type of person that SCARES people away from Christianity. You come off as a brainwashed, pious, zealot not a kind, compassionate follower of Christ.

Had someone like you tried to tell me about being a Christian, I would have thought you were a self-righteous fanatic and ran the other way. Thankfully it was someone who showed me by example, through kindness and love. Not by being sanctimonious and only spouting verses.

jASonOfGod · Aug 17, 2005

IrishGob said:
Jason,

IMO - You are the type of person that SCARES people away from Christianity. You come off as a brainwashed, pious, zealot not a kind, compassionate follower of Christ.

Had someone like you tried to tell me about being a Christian, I would have thought you were a self-righteous fanatic and ran the other way. Thankfully it was someone who showed me by example, through kindness and love. Not by being sanctimonious and only spouting verses.

If you have actually read my posts, then this is for you...
And look at what type of Christian you have become.
Trading the truth for a lie.
My desire is not for somebody to know a religion,
but for somebody to realize their need for a saviour
and provide the only one available to this world.

If you have not read my posts,
then please don't speak about things you don't know about.

You hypocritical "Christians" are so upsetting,
not with anger but with great sorrow.
You who seem to hate the Word of God are disgusting,
you can not know Him by any other means,
but by His word and His word alone.
You "Christians" who think that you can explain something on your own
outside of the Bible, and indeed outside of God, and the Truth,
let them be Anathema.

Please don't go around showing people your version of Christ's love,
listen to what Jesus Christ has actually said.

Matthew 16:21-23
(21) From that time forth began Jesus to show unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. (22) Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. (23) But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offense unto me: for thou savorest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Why did he say this to Peter?
Because Peter loved Jesus, and did not want Him to go and die!
BUT it was God's will and His will be done.
Whether we wish it to be or not!

God is love. But God's love is not mans love.
God's love is pure and perfect and righteous,
it does not exchange truth for a kinder, gentler, message.
God has loved me so much, and He has taught me how to love Him,
and so now therefore, I can love all, for I love Him, and God is love.

The world does make me sorrowful but...

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

I have spoken Truth, and only Truth!
God is true, and I will follow His word alone,
not mans interpetation thereof!

Isaiah 5:20-24
(20) Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! (21) Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight! (22) Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink: (23) Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him! (24) Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.

In True Love of My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, Jason

IrishGob · Aug 17, 2005

mlukas · Aug 17, 2005

jASonOfGod said:
You make some good points,
none that validate not needing scripture for every circumstance.
Every word I say must line up with God's Word, every word of every man
outside of scripture whether it be John Bunyan, C.S. Lewis, or the Pope,
must line up with the Word of God, or else it is not true.
Everything in this life is perfectly explained within the Bible.

I agree that, for something to be ultimatly true, it needs to line up with scripture.
HOWEVER..
Not "Everything" in life is explained through scripture, there are nebulous areas that do come down to personal choice: What color shirt do I wear, what style of music do I listen to, how should I cut my hair..but I digress..

jASonOfGod said:
You have a problem with preaching to people with a tool
that they do not even believe in? I see what you mean.

Yes, so did Jesus. Look at the parables!

jASonOfGod said:
The truth is an offense,
but it is true love, whether the person gets upset from it or not.

Sometimes. But what can be more of an offense is the PRESENTATION of that truth. Jesus asked us to speak the truth, not necessarily to speak it in such a way as to p**s as many people off as possible. I think He expects us to show discretion and tact. If we show grace and tact in our presentation of the truth but someone gets offended, that's just life. But If we go in thumping our bibles shouting hellfire and brimstone and people get offended, that's our fault for having a lack of common sense.
Scriptures + Brains=Good
Scriptures - Brains=Bad unthinking zealot

jASonOfGod · Aug 17, 2005

IrishGob said:

Ma'am,
You have none of God's Word and authority
to back up your attitude, but only yourself.
What is wrong with me relying on God for guidance instead of man?

I will tell you what is wrong with it...

NOTHING.

NOTHING AT ALL!

By the Word of God and my Dear Sister Tracy,

..they are impudent children and stiffhearted. I do send thee unto them;
and thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD. And
thou, son of man, be not afraid of them, neither be afraid of their words,
though briers and thorns be with thee, and thou dost dwell among scorpions:
be not afraid of their words, nor be dismayed at their looks,
though they be a rebellious house.
Ezekiel 2:4,6

Provide me one Word of God
that rebukes the Truth and Love that I have spoken.

In the Truth and Love of Jesus Christ my Lord and Saviour,
who will Judge all hypocrites and try them in the fires of Hell, Jason

mlukas · Aug 17, 2005

jASonOfGod said:
If you have actually read my posts, then this is for you...
And look at what type of Christian you have become.
Trading the truth for a lie.
My desire is not for somebody to know a religion,
but for somebody to realize their need for a saviour
and provide the only one available to this world.

If you have not read my posts,
then please don't speak about things you don't know about.

You hypocritical "Christians" are so upsetting,
not with anger but with great sorrow.
You who seem to hate the Word of God are disgusting,
you can not know Him by any other means,
but by His word and His word alone.
You "Christians" who think that you can explain something on your own
outside of the Bible, and indeed outside of God, and the Truth,
let them be Anathema.

Please don't go around showing people your version of Christ's love,
listen to what Jesus Christ has actually said.

Matthew 16:21-23
(21) From that time forth began Jesus to show unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. (22) Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. (23) But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offense unto me: for thou savorest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Why did he say this to Peter?
Because Peter loved Jesus, and did not want Him to go and die!
BUT it was God's will and His will be done.
Whether we wish it to be or not!

God is love. But God's love is not mans love.
God's love is pure and perfect and righteous,
it does not exchange truth for a kinder, gentler, message.
God has loved me so much, and He has taught me how to love Him,
and so now therefore, I can love all, for I love Him, and God is love.

The world does make me sorrowful but...

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

I have spoken Truth, and only Truth!
God is true, and I will follow His word alone,
not mans interpetation thereof!

Isaiah 5:20-24
(20) Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! (21) Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight! (22) Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink: (23) Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him! (24) Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.

In True Love of My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, Jason

Again, who are you to judge?
"What type of a Christian you have become??"
How do you know?
Doesn't your attitude strike you as a bit pompous? I don't think anyone on this thread is suggesting watering down the scriptures! Or calling good evil and evil good! Where did you get that??
Again, you are being really judgemental and you don't even see it, haven't you listened to anything anyone is saying?
Seriously Jason, you are very arrogant and young, as you posts have repeatedly shown.
So who gets in your heaven Jason? Only the completaly unblemished and theologically correct? Only the people who speak in scriptures? Only the people who NEVER doubt Gods existance or EVER question his ways? Only the people who watch, read, see, wear, think and feel the way YOU see fit based on YOUR reading of the bible?
Your view of life and God is beyond narrow.
No one is advocating anything hypocrital or immoral here, Including Lee in his original post. You continue to piously judge us whilst hiding behind the guise of scipture and have, in this post, basically said we are all evil hypocrites.
Jason, one day you will find out, like I did, how hypocritical and judgemental YOU are. I speak from experience, and, truthfully, I can still be a really pious jerk at times.
Again, you've dodged the questions by flaming us all with scripture.
And, you can't get away from "mans interpretation" of scripture! What, do you have a direct line to the Almighty where he whispers theological secrets into your ears? What do you mean by "mans interpretation?" Does that mean anyones interpretation that doesn't line up with yours?

GreenPartyVoter · Aug 17, 2005

Forgive me if I missed it in the very long thread, here.. but have you looked into liberal Christianity at all? If not come and see us at Whosoever will may come forum or liberal theology debate.

*hugs and prayers*

mlukas · Aug 17, 2005

GreenPartyVoter said:
Forgive me if I missed it in the very long thread, here.. but have you looked into liberal Christianity at all? If not come and see us at Whosoever will may come forum or liberal theology debate.

*hugs and prayers*

LOL! might bea better place for where THIS thread is headed! Thanks for the invitation! I'm pretty conservative and traditional but I'd love to check out that forum sometime, just to see how the "other half" lives

God Bless GreenPartyVoter!

im no longer a christian... anyone understand?

Serving God Always

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