im no longer a christian... anyone understand?

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Endure2

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i posted this elsewhere, please read it if you will and reply if you can feel me... im trying to find hope outside of Christ, becuase i dont believe in him anymore.

guys...

i just dont believe this anymore, becuase i dont want philosophy or reasoning or words, if he is real then i want to see him myself, im sure hes more than capable.
i dont mean to sound arogant, but i cant try to live something that calls for me to give up alot of things i enjoy doing and to believe in something i really dont know for sure is real... when the brilliance of mans understanding and witty thinking comes to an end... it may not have ever been true.

im beginning to feel christianity is based on ignorance and fear.
ignorance of another explanation or rebuttal to the lofty thoughts, proverbs, apparent truths or explanation of our existence and deep fear of a dreadful end without his grace.

and i cant trade what is so hard to believe isnt real and trustworthy, for something that seems so vague and fruitless.

when i ask him to let me see him or show me a miracle or something beyond just apologetics or reason, it doesnt happen. and im not demanding of him, but really sincerely asking him... i want to see him... but he never shows himself to me.

i feel like i was just brainwashed all my life.
i cant trade all i do have and do enjoy for something i cant see in a hope that is may be beneficail.
i dont want to live this intense lifestyle that christianity calls for... for what?
i dont see anything.

and if im truely wrong and deceived... then im not just fustrated or angry or kinda mislead... im on my way to a dreadful hell... and God knows this... if he loves me then why doesnt he talk to me so i will stop this doubting... and not burn for eternity? doesnt he understand that if hes real i really do want to see him, if hes real i want to know.

if hes real, i want him to show me and help me do what he wants from me.

i hope he isnt angry at me, i hope he doesnt let me wander blindly into a burning hell unknowingly just becuase i began to doubt or maybe even got a bit arogant.

i hope he doesnt turn me to a pillar of salt just becuase i looked back like he did lots wife...or have his servants destroy me, my wife and children just becuase im an unbeliever and i might corrupt his prize children one day when i just dont know any other way to live, like he did repeatedly in the old testament.

how could he do that to me? im the weak one arent i? the petty human creation? how am i supposed to be the strong one?

maybe hell do me like he did Job when Job eventually doubted and cursed the day he was born, in the end God openly rebuked Job and corrected him and asked "where were you when the heavons were formed? what do you know?" thats fine with me... its better then burning for eternity becuase i dont understand and got tricked.

i want to see him if hes real, experience him... and i dont want this bunch of bull that says things like "well hes too holy" ... im tired of patching up the gaping holes in my life with these goofy littly half baked explanations and these foolish ideologies about suffering through and not letting your eyes fool you and God speaks in diffrent ways or OH... maybe the devil is wrestling with my angel and he cant come to me!

i refuse to be a part of some unseen war between light and dark and the forces of good and evil, i dont want to be a white night in some holy war.
and i dont want to be a part of some secret society that knows things and does things the rest of the word doesnt know or know how to do... becuase "THEIR ALL DECIEVED... WE KNOW THE TRUTH THAT THEY CANT UNDERSTAND" unless they go agaisnt better judgement and convert.

i want to live in my little house on a hill and have a wife and kids and work a job and one day die and be no more and forgotten about (though a nice afterlife would be nice)... i dont want to be a part of some constantly intense lifestyle of fighting unseen demons and evil and having to save a world of people destined to burn in a fiery dungeon if i dont... and their bloods on my hands! having to read and pray and read and pray or else the evil will win!

i dont mean anyone anyharm... but it all seems to utterly foolish to me sometimes. Christianity is just so so lofty... and it seems to have given me nothing but heartache and worry...

this just isnt for me anymore, it seems to offer so little in return of my full devotion or maybe even my mortal life, everything except the real true walk with a real God that loves me and is there for me.



im not asking anyone to help me bash christianity... i was just venting and i also dont want to be a part of trying to dismantle this wide spread belief system im no longer a part of... i will never be a part of these people who harass and try to tear down christians.

but does anyone feel me?

its been about 2 weeks since i changed... im still kinda unsure and worried, but it doesnt look like i have any options...
does anyone understand how i feel?
 

Zaac

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Endure2 said:
i posted this elsewhere, please read it if you will and reply if you can feel me... im trying to find hope outside of Christ, becuase i dont believe in him anymore.





im not asking anyone to help me bash christianity... i was just venting and i also dont want to be a part of trying to dismantle this wide spread belief system im no longer a part of... i will never be a part of these people who harass and try to tear down christians.

but does anyone feel me?

its been about 2 weeks since i changed... im still kinda unsure and worried, but it doesnt look like i have any options...
does anyone understand how i feel?

When did you give your life to Christ? If you did, wouldn't He have to give it back to you in order for you to no longer be a Christian? :scratch:
 
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Endure2

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Zach

well thats an interesting question... but thats not what im wanting here.

i dont want rehtoric, does anyone understand?
im not trying to bash christianity or make jokes of it, i dont hate it.
im just not one anymore and im wondering if theres anyone out there who isnt one for sincere honest reasons that can talk to me maturely and maybe help me understand what im going through.

im not trying to throw mud here.
 
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Endure2

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zaac

whoa im sorry i read that wrong... i didnt see your christian point of view in your statment till too late.

but to answer you...
if hes not real... then... well you know.

and no matter how reasonable your question sounds, its pointless, im not chained to this, and the bible itself speaks of people falling away and such anyway... osas was something i never believed, but im not going to debate biblical theology if i dont even believe it.

i honestly believe i was everything any christian is "though i never experienced somethings some people claim to have" and i know now that certainly am no longer.

i have my life to christ many years ago as a small child. if you try to say well i didnt do it right to begin with, i wont possibly consider that.
if you say i messed along the way, its possible.
but now... i dont see any hope in Him.
 
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419gam

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I found joy when I lost my faith. The world seemed full of new possiblities and I truely felt free for the first time. Freedom is scary for some becuse it brings responsibillity. Previously right and wrong and proper courses of action were already proscribed for you. Now you have to evaluate situations and come up with your own answer. There is also no longer someone permanently in your corner to "help" when things go wrong.

I think you will grow more comfortable with your decision as time goes on. Go somewhere in nature and observe the world we live in. Is it more or less special for lack of Divine Creation?

P.S. Welcome to the joy of sleeping in on sundays, or fishing or footbsll or whatever your fancy.
 
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BWSUQ

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To the original poster, that was an amazing post. To the poster immediately after the first poster, what do you mean "doesn't He have to give it back to you"? There is such a thing as backsliding. Anyways, in regards to the orginal post, I want to start by saying thank you for posting your feelings, questions, frustrations, etc. It is something everyone has to deal with. I don't know you, and I can never understand what happened in your life to get you to the point you are at today. So, what I will do is discuss my relationship with Christ, and share my thoughts, feelings, and questions I've had. Hopefully, this will grant you some comfort, even if you still choose to not be a Christian.

I was raised by my great-grandma, because my parents were extremely selfish and shouldn't have had any children. They divorced shortly after I was born and my mother left me for my great grandma to raise. We went to church until I was about 4 or 5, which consisted of me sleeping basically. My great-grandma was a black woman born in 1916 in the south, so she was a very strong-willed person who was never scared to fight for her children and confront others (including cussing like crazy, haha, which I picked up in spades). But, she was completely loyal to me and the other two generation of boys she raised. She raised her son, and then raised 3 of her sons kids. Sports was a big part of my life, so games on Sunday put an end to church. Even though we didn't go to church, and we never really discussed God, my life was filled with love from my great-grandma (the only family I had), and she taught me good morals in the way she was honest, did what was right, and fought for those she loved. During my adolescence (around age 15 on) I would occasionally read the bible when things were really bad, and cry out to God. But, I never thanked Him when things were going well. Overall, I am a good person and have never drank, smoked, partied, or done drugs. I have also not had sex. I am NOT saying that to glorify myself, it is just the truth. I never had ANY desire to drink, smoke, do drugs, or party, but I DID have the desire to have a girlfriend, and perhaps have sex. But, looking back, things just never worked out and I never had a gf. I wasn't in the popular crowd in high school so there was no pressure for me to do anything I didn't want to do, and thus there wasn't girls all over me. I'll come back to these last few sentences in a moment. My second year in college was hell for me. My great-grandma was in and out of the hospital and no one knew if she would make it, me and my two female roommates did not get along, I was short on money, my face was breaking out for the first time in my life, and I hated my classes. It was a rough point in my life, but also it was the turning point. Again, I read the bible off and on, but didn't talk to Jesus much, basically I was just having the "whoa is me" pity party. On my birthday, I was sitting at work and it came to me that I should take a year off from school to get my life back on track. So, I did. I went home to live with my great grandma again, and take a break from school for the first time since pre-school. Well, that year was a major turning point in my life. I was able to spend time with my great-grandma for 14 months, then after volunteering at a vet hospital for two weeks (I was prevet in college), I was offered a Full-Time position after someone was let go. Out of the blue I was given a full-time assistant position (I had no experience prior), and the chance to gain some needed experience in the field. During that year, I had a tough time dealing with a few bad apples at work who openly called themselves "*****es" and were proud of it. It was tough, but it made me start reading the bible more, and talking to Jesus more everyday. Despite other people's curiosity on whether I would return to school, I did, just like I said and knew I would. I couldn't be what I wanted to be in life, without going to college, and the truth is school was easy I just didn't enjoy it and therefore didn't study enough. During the first year back I stayed in a studio apartment which was perfect. It gave me a chance to really be alone with God and my thoughts. I had always been a heavy thinker, and love spending time all to myself. The next two years after returning I grew in the Lord by leaps and bounds, and SAW God answers so many of my prayers, and SAW God working in my life to change me. After applying for a kennel position and doing well in the interview, when driving home from that, I felt that I wouldn't get the job, even though it went great, and that it was ok, because something BETTER was coming up. I didn't know what but I knew it would. Before I forget, let me say that the night before I was called in for an interview, I prayed in the shower for God to show me a sign that he is with me. Well, two months after turning in my resume, I get a call wanting me for an interview. Let me just say that I was praising God all day, and still do to this day for things like that. Well, God's promise to me that something better was coming proved true. Instead of the kennel position, I was offered a vet technicial position (better than an assistant at my first job and much better than a lowly kennel job) at the same hospital. It was amazing. I have been working there ever since, and the lessons I learned at my old job have made this job a fanstastic experience.

As far as vet school went, I felt in my spirit that God had promised me that I would get into vet school at my college, which happened to be in the top 5 in the nation. Well, God performed a miracle during my GRE's when he blessed me with a score that was 15% higher than the 7 practice tests I had taken the week leading up to the GRE, the same practice tests where I had A DICTIONARY AND THESAURUS in front of me that I used, haha. I prayed the night before the GRE and asked that God would be with me tomorrow. At that I slept great, got up with a smile, and promised myself that I would enjoy the test and let God take care of the rest. He DID! I was floored when I saw my score, and I will never take credit for it because it WASN'T ME taking that test, there is no way my score would be that much higher than my practice tests. My vet school interview was on my birthday, and I felt entirely confident that God would speak through me during my interview, and therefore felt no nervesness. Others in the waiting area were self professed nervous wrecks, but I had a light smile and was just talking and praying to Jesus. Two days later, I got accepted to vet school and immediately got on my knees and thanked God. The weird thing was I wasn't excited, it was more of "OK, well I'm up to mile 15 on the 26 mile marathon."

Hopefully, you are still reading this and have stayed with me. I say all that to tell you these next few things. I have only highlighted a few major things from my life, and a few prayers answered and miracles performed by God in my life. There are many more but there is not enough time to write about them. God was with me my entire life, guiding me, keeping me out of trouble so that my prayers of a simple life, one with Jesus at the center and a life of helping children, the elderly, the poor, and animals, could come to pass. The Bible says that as we mature as Christians are desires will be more and more like Jesus's. God and God alone removed any desires that I might have had for drugs and alcohol, and by His own will did not allow me to have a GF when I was younger before I committed to being a virgin when and if I get married. God has blessed me with looks, intelligence, ambition, kindness, athletic ability, the desire to always improve myself, and many other traits. People that meet me, and even my best friend can't believe that I have never even kissed a girl before (waiting to do it with my first GF). My best friend after knowing me for a year thought I must be lying about being a virgin. I always pray that God's will will be done in my life, and not my own. My will is fickle and based only on my subjective perspective. God can see my entire life and the lives of others, and He will make good the lives of His children. There are always tests always tests along the way, rough times that build character, where God can "see what is in you." Even though I was made fun of in school, ignored in high school, had horrible parents who have done little good in my life, lost my great-grandmother over a year ago, been rejected by society many times for just being different (not drinking, smoking, partying, sex) and asked "What is wroing with you". Haha, it's amazing how cruel people can be if you are not a follower. I would never say that every Christian who says they are Christian is a true Christian. There are counterfeit Christians, just like there is counterfeit money. But true Christians, will be with you during times such as this where you are searching for answers. I myself don't have the words to help you, anymore than showing you God's love through what I have experienced. If God can turn what others plan for evil into good, change Paul from one who is on his way to arrest and kill Christ's followers into a great author of the New Testament, then He can and WILL surely help you if you continue to ask, knock, and search for His guidance. He will not abandon you just like He did not abandon Job. You don't know what God has allowed to happen to you and why, but you can be sure of one thing, God is true to His word, He has to be, that is why He is God. He does not break promises and therefore you can trust in them. You never know how God will weave your life into His great plan, and make you an inspiration to others. Through my experiences, I can understand how someone feels when they were raised in a broken home, had horrible parents, was made fun of at school, felt isolated, felt inadequate in themselves, felt alone, lost a loved one, etc. All my good and bad experiences helped me be the person I am today and I would not take anything back. I haven't felt depressed in over 2 years, the time I started actively developing my relationship with Jesus. This does not mean that bad things don't happen, because believe me they do. It means that I have a hope and faith in Christ that only comes from the grace of God, where I am never in a bad mood, I am slow to get angry and it only lasts a few minutes, I am always looking for the positives, and when I don't see any at that time, then I pray and have faith that God is in control. God has never let me down, and He never will. If you start tonight to begin asking sincerely, as you've said you've done, to open your eyes so that you may see His love, FOR HIS NAMESAKE, that you may glorify and praise Him, then I KNOW that God will answer your prayers. Don't give up after a few nights, but know that it took 21 days of fasting before Daniel recieved his revelation, and it took 25 years for Gods promise of a son to come to pass, so it MAY be with you. It may take a little time, but know this, God DID answer their prayers, and He DID remain faithful to His promises. He will remain faithful to you.

If you would like to talk further on IM or something or just want to email me with a positive or negative response, then you can contact me at benquarrles@hotmail.com

Thanks.
 
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Spinrad

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Endure2 said:
Zach

well thats an interesting question... but thats not what im wanting here.

i dont want rehtoric, does anyone understand?
im not trying to bash christianity or make jokes of it, i dont hate it.
im just not one anymore and im wondering if theres anyone out there who isnt one for sincere honest reasons that can talk to me maturely and maybe help me understand what im going through.

im not trying to throw mud here.

I am not one for sincere and honest reasons. But everyone goes through their own experiences. I can tell you mine, and maybe that helps, but in the end you have to draw your own conclusions.
 
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LOGICQUIZDUMMY

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It sounds like you've still got some issues to mull around in your mind. You seem to still accept a few of the "essential" maxims presented by Christianity, such as God's existence, so why not give liberal Christianity a shot? It's not book-burnin', gay-bashin', bible thumpin', frothin' at the mouth fundamentalism or no Christianity at all, there are some less insane versions of the faith.
 
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PlumTea

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Endure2 said:
i posted this elsewhere, please read it if you will and reply if you can feel me... im trying to find hope outside of Christ, becuase i dont believe in him anymore.

but does anyone feel me?

its been about 2 weeks since i changed... im still kinda unsure and worried, but it doesnt look like i have any options...
does anyone understand how i feel?

Maybe, but I don't feel as though I have been brainwashed or mislead. Doesn't matter how I say it, or what I am feeling-- nothing happens.. I have never felt God, like real Christians have. It's depressing, and I feel I am the only one not getting it.
However, I know my heart and I care more about me than him; that is my sin, and it keeps me from him. Have I fixed it? Nope. Don't really know how. I am a false convert or a backslider; Christianity is for people that can let go of all there 'me' stuff, because it's not about us at all.
I am certain He is angry at me. The bible says so. The bible also says only a wicked generation asks for a sign; so I've screwed up there as well.
I know there is nothing I can do to be saved, I wish there was, but my works are nothing.
I have had similar thoughts and feelings. I'm not giving up yet though; perhaps I should, I have heard that it is when we finally give up trying that God steps in, but I don't know..

I do think there is still hope though, for me and you. There is ALWAYS hope.
okay, my sensless ramblings are over.
 
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PlumTea

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LOGICQUIZDUMMY said:
It sounds like you've still got some issues to mull around in your mind. You seem to still accept a few of the "essential" maxims presented by Christianity, such as God's existence, so why not give liberal Christianity a shot? It's not book-burnin', gay-bashin', bible thumpin', frothin' at the mouth fundamentalism or no Christianity at all, there are some less insane versions of the faith.

The above would be my brand of Christianity. Whatever I do, it will be more or none. If Christianity is true it has to be all or none. Thats where I think I've gone wrong, haven't let go of all of me, so I'm not getting any of him.
 
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SackLunch

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Endure2 said:
Zach

well thats an interesting question... but thats not what im wanting here.

i dont want rehtoric, does anyone understand?
im not trying to bash christianity or make jokes of it, i dont hate it.
im just not one anymore and im wondering if theres anyone out there who isnt one for sincere honest reasons that can talk to me maturely and maybe help me understand what im going through.

im not trying to throw mud here.
Well this certainly is a mystery. What exactly have you lost hope over? What is going on in your life for you to come to this decision? Has God disappointed you? Do you feel He has abandoned you?

It is perfectly normal to be disappointed in God, even angry at Him. Believe me, I have been, and still am today for a situation in my life that is causing me tremendous pain.

But if you have sincerely confessed your inherent sinfulness and asked Jesus to come into your heart and life to be your Savior, you have nothing to worry about. Your place in Heaven is secure. This life is the worst you will have it, and you can look forward to your glorious eternal life in Heaven.

Everyone - let's give Endure a BIG :groupray:
 
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Zaac

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Endure2 said:
zaac

whoa im sorry i read that wrong... i didnt see your christian point of view in your statment till too late.

but to answer you...
if hes not real... then... well you know.

and no matter how reasonable your question sounds, its pointless, im not chained to this, and the bible itself speaks of people falling away and such anyway... osas was something i never believed, but im not going to debate biblical theology if i dont even believe it.

i honestly believe i was everything any christian is "though i never experienced somethings some people claim to have" and i know now that certainly am no longer.

i have my life to christ many years ago as a small child. if you try to say well i didnt do it right to begin with, i wont possibly consider that.
if you say i messed along the way, its possible.
but now... i dont see any hope in Him.

Endure, may I ask what you are going to replace this absence of Christ with? Honestly, and don't be offended by this, but based upon some of the things you said it sounds like you have struggled with allowing Christ to do through you. And that you have attempted to obey in the flesh and have found it to be to strenuous and task-filled to really leave you with any joy.
 
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peepnklown

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Endure2

I will try to keep this short and to the point.

The group cannot help you, you have to help yourself.

The group cannot answer anything; you will have to find answers now.

The group cannot lead you; you will have to walk alone.

The path might be frightening at first but you will have to walk it.

Stop thinking about religion for a while and start living.

Right now you are just starting to wake up and everything is a bright light.

You will get used to it and soon break from the group.

Don’t listen to anyone, just be.
 
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Zaac

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peepnklown said:
Endure2

I will try to keep this short and to the point.

The group cannot help you, you have to help yourself.

The group cannot answer anything; you will have to find answers now.

The group cannot lead you; you will have to walk alone.

The path might be frightening at first but you will have to walk it.

Stop thinking about religion for a while and start living.

Right now you are just starting to wake up and everything is a bright light.

You will get used to it and soon break from the group.

Don’t listen to anyone, just be.

Endure, remember what you have been taught since childhood. 14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 2Timothy 3:14-15

Chase after the Christ in Whom you put your faith and not after this humanist inspired "do it yourself mentality" that's being fed.
 
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ericf

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Endure2 said:
i posted this elsewhere, please read it if you will and reply if you can feel me... im trying to find hope outside of Christ, becuase i dont believe in him anymore.

. . .

but does anyone feel me?

its been about 2 weeks since i changed... im still kinda unsure and worried, but it doesnt look like i have any options...
does anyone understand how i feel?

I do feel you... I went through a similar phase about 11 or 12 years ago. Eventually, I just had to let it all go and freefall for a while and learn to be comfortable not knowing. I think it is important that you don't rush off and try to find "hope" in a new belief right away. Rather, I think you should become comfortable with who you are and what you believe outside of any belief. And it gives God more time to show up, if he's going to.

In my case, he never showed up. I went about three years without adopting another belief... although I did look into many at the time I refused to accept them. Anyway... I totally understand where you are and the difficulty of the journey you are on. In the words of Douglas Adams, "Don't Panic."

I'll make the same offer that brightlights did... if you wish to talk more then pm me or IM me (I think it's in my profile). In the end, I think the "Doubting Thomas" phase of my Christian belief was the most real and rewarding phase I went through.
 
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Endure2 said:
i posted this elsewhere, please read it if you will and reply if you can feel me... im trying to find hope outside of Christ, becuase i dont believe in him anymore.

im not asking anyone to help me bash christianity... i was just venting and i also dont want to be a part of trying to dismantle this wide spread belief system im no longer a part of... i will never be a part of these people who harass and try to tear down christians.

but does anyone feel me?

its been about 2 weeks since i changed... im still kinda unsure and worried, but it doesnt look like i have any options...
does anyone understand how i feel?

I must say what I feel in this instance. I feel that you are a person who is seeking attention at this time in your life. I do not know, nor do I understand your situation/circumstances, but it appears to me that you require a great deal of attention right now. What I get out of your statement is that you do not feel that you have received adequate attention from God in order for you to continue to acknowledge His existence, or at least the existence and sacrifice of the Savior, Jesus.

I also see you asking others (us) to comment on what you are saying, and provide you with information that might cause you to consider your opinion.

Well, there are two options here from my perspective.

First: I could tell you to stop belittling the sacrifice that Jesus made for you, by stating that you no longer believe it is true. Then I could go into detail about how precious you are to God (and you are); so much so, that while humans were still sinning against Him, He still offered His all to save us.
I could tell you that if you turn your back on God now, He'll turn His back on you at the 2nd Coming of Christ, and the Final Judgement.
I could remind you that if you are telling the truth, and you were really a Christian, then you should know that to many, you are the only Christ they will ever see. In other words, the love of Jesus Christ, shining through you, because of your relationship with Him, may be the only time that some people you come in contact with, ever see that. I could tell you that you were the one that was supposed to lead them to Jesus, and when you go before God for the final judgement, he'll show you how many souls were lost because of your decision to walk away from Him.
In telling you all of these things, I would be explaining to you that your decision to leave Christianity, and abandon Jesus, affects many more persons than yourself.

But would you hear me? Would your heart be open to discussing these things? Would you feel the love of Christ in my words, as I say these things to you, and realize what it is you are giving away, and how many more will suffer because of your choice?

My other option is....

I could encourage you to explore the other belief systems available to you. I could perhaps suggest that I too once believed in Jesus Christ, but abandoned that notion for something much wiser (ie: placing faith in myself, instead, because after all, when have we ever steered ourselves wrong?)

In my instance this wouldn't be true, for I love God with all my heart and trust Him with all that I am. I call Jesus my Savior, and I know that nobody else, including myself, has ever earned 100% of my faith.

So there you have it.
Now which one did I choose? We both know, don't we? :hug:
 
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