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jASonOfGod said:You have never known God have you? Tell the truth, why did you decide to "become a Christian"?
jASonOfGod said:Yes I do,
"If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed." (John 8:31)
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation
unto all them that obey him. (Hebrews 5:9)
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar,
and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word,
in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. (1 John 2:4)
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? (Luke 6:46)
...foundation of repentance from dead works... (Heb 6:1)
You have never known God have you?Tell the truth, why did you decide to "become a Christian"?
Not everybody who says they are a Christian is one.
You may have heard this one but...
Just as sitting in a garage doesn't make you a car,
sitting in church doesn't make you a christian.
Although, with your original post, you seem to not want to live a Christian lifestyle,
because of the requirements to give up the world's vanities;
You have not seen your exceeding sinfulness, that leads to Godly sorrow,
nor, your need of forgiveness of your sins.
How are you a Christian if you see no need for Christ?
It would be easy for someone who has never known God to turn from Him,
since, they have never turned to Him.
In the Truth and Love of my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ,
Jason
Hebrews 6:1-20mlukas said:I agree with Ledfini on this one! It's possible for ANYONE to turn away, even if you HAVE known God!
God does not change. His truth is always the same.mlukas said:You're answers are a bit too cliche!
Answers to every question, however "difficult" they may be,mlukas said:And some of the harder questions cannot be answered by the cliche christian answers..
If you mean, they question God, and if He is real, then, no, that is not so.mlukas said:ANY strong christian questions his or her beliefs, it's the only true way to know him.
van·i·tymlukas said:I didn't ever see Lee complaining about "worldly vanities" (define these please...),
You appear to know that you can not have the world's vanities,Endure2 said:i cant trade all i do have and do enjoy for something i cant see in a hope that is may be beneficail.
i dont want to live this intense lifestyle that christianity calls for... for what?
i dont see anything.
And if you cared for what He has done for you,Endure2 said:and if im truely wrong and deceived... then im not just fustrated or angry or kinda mislead... im on my way to a dreadful hell... and God knows this... if he loves me then why doesnt he talk to me so i will stop this doubting... and not burn for eternity? doesnt he understand that if hes real i really do want to see him, if hes real i want to know.
Matthew 12:38-40Endure2 said:when i ask him to let me see him or show me a miracle or something beyond just apologetics or reason, it doesnt happen. and im not demanding of him, but really sincerely asking him... i want to see him... but he never shows himself to me.
Oh, the blindness is your own fault,Endure2 said:i hope he isnt angry at me, i hope he doesnt let me wander blindly into a burning hell unknowingly just becuase i began to doubt or maybe even got a bit arogant.
Matthew 19:29Endure2 said:this just isnt for me anymore, it seems to offer so little in return of my full devotion or maybe even my mortal life, everything except the real true walk with a real God that loves me and is there for me.
You may have been, by the hypocritical "Christianity" of today.Endure2 said:i feel like i was just brainwashed all my life.
I never questioned God's existence or His ways.
Endure2 said:jason
ive already read more than you could ever type here, and enough to know that your kind of christianity isnt even endorsed by the book you believe so blindly and obliviously.
the bible does not teach that you believe the book simply because of the book, Jesus condemned people who only knew the book without the kind of relationship that i wanted from him. paul said the letter destroys but the spirit brings life.
if the book is true then God makes it true, the book doesnt make God true.
anyone can write a book, and why is this book specail? Jesus told his disciples the spirit would come and help them, he told them to perfom miracles so people would see and believe. he performed miracles and then said THIS MIRACLE WAS NOT FOR ME, BUT FOR YOU...SO YOU WOULD BELIEVE.
the bible teaches that God is there for you and will walk with you in a real way.... hasnt for me.
the blindness wouldnt be my own fault? the bible teaches that i know nothing without God, can do nothing without God. he isnt around to talk to me or show me whats real, why should i believe this book is the one true book.
becuase you insist that it is? please spare me.
i wouldnt go to hell unwrongly... ok.
that says it all for me.
just like i was when i believed, your a critical mean person who only knows happiness from the things your preachers and your religion tell you that you OUGHT to be happy about.
your a part of a goofy secret society thats better than the rest of the world and the DECEIVED people who you have the right to patronise, insult, talk down too and run over all in the name of your invisible God who no one around has ever seen.
i got tired of running around and trying to find what i thought might be his footprints, he never shows anyone his face anyway. what kind of God is that?
just shut up.
if you care for me (which i dont care if you do or not) then stop the memorised jargon and try to understand so you can respond with something USEFUL, im not an animal and you cant just treat and talk to me as you will and your favorite little remedies might not work, BECUASE I AM A UNIQUE PERSON... if or your God ever cared to get to know me.
if you dont care, then dont try to talk to me.
Endure2 said:jason
you are either a liar or you are blind little idealistic child who preaches his dogma too quickly to think and to blindly to look inside, and you are far better christian then david, solomon, elijah, ALL the disciples and countless other HONEST christians, all who doubted God or his ways atleast at some point.
which says to me that there is little to discuss with you.
your christianity is flawed becuase you aparantly believe eternal security, your whole being is flawed becuase your arrogant, annoying, closed minded, and too blind to realise it for yourself. you argue like a screaming child who only knows how to scream louder and yell the same obnoxious blather over and over.
paul said a christians weapons are not carnal but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongs. CASTING DOWN AND TAKING CAPTIVE EVERY FALSE IMAGINATION THAT EXALTS ITSELF AGAISNT THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD.
paul said the very fight christians fight is the waging of war against doubtful
or untrue thoughts. you are no exception.
but thats what you believe.
Endure2 said:jason
you are either a liar or you are blind little idealistic child who preaches his dogma too quickly to think and to blindly to look inside, and you are far better christian then david, solomon, elijah, ALL the disciples and countless other HONEST christians, all who doubted God or his ways atleast at some point.
...
paul said a christians weapons are not carnal but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongs. CASTING DOWN AND TAKING CAPTIVE EVERY FALSE IMAGINATION THAT EXALTS ITSELF AGAISNT THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD.
paul said the very fight christians fight is the waging of war against doubtful
or untrue thoughts. you are no exception.
but thats what you believe.
jASonOfGod said:Yes I do,
"If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed." (John 8:31)
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation
unto all them that obey him. (Hebrews 5:9)
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar,
and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word,
in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. (1 John 2:4)
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? (Luke 6:46)
...foundation of repentance from dead works... (Heb 6:1)
You have never known God have you?Tell the truth, why did you decide to "become a Christian"?
Not everybody who says they are a Christian is one.
You may have heard this one but...
Just as sitting in a garage doesn't make you a car,
sitting in church doesn't make you a christian.
Although, with your original post, you seem to not want to live a Christian lifestyle,
because of the requirements to give up the world's vanities;
You have not seen your exceeding sinfulness, that leads to Godly sorrow,
nor, your need of forgiveness of your sins.
How are you a Christian if you see no need for Christ?
It would be easy for someone who has never known God to turn from Him,
since, they have never turned to Him.
In the Truth and Love of my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ,
Jason
mlukas said:Endure2,
I completally agree with you on this one...if anyones says, even the strongest of Christians, that they have never doubted the very existance of an invisible God, they are dillusional or liars...probably both...
I hope Jasons answers don't turn you off to at least continuing to seek God in some sort of way. Every post I read from you I truly feel. I grew up in the church too and I think, in some ways, it screws you up more, from a relationship with god standpoint, than having grown up outside the church and coming to Christ later on in life (hope that last sentence made sense..) I question also, always, things that I pushed down dfor a long time in the name of being a "good" non-quetioning, ever faith filled christian.
It was just ****...
Not God, not the church, not my upbringing, but this feeling, this belief that I created in myself that quuestioning god was somehow evil and wrong (See Jason's posts...I know you know what I speak of...
But I digress...
My parents never put a lot of pressure on me, or raised me up in some mindless, unquestioning form of "faith", I put the pressure on myself and didn't talk about it. And. lo and behold, when I DID talk about it, I found lots of other Christians with the same struggles.
They are not all like our dogmatic friend on this board...
I still doubt, and struggle with my faith, and struggle with how to make it real , and develop that personal relationship with Jesus that you talk about and that all of us, hopefully, as christians crave.
God is not all about a struggle of light and dark that we are a part of, and that if we make one false move a soul goes to hell...I beleived that too for a long time. I'm still searching out the answers and slowly seeing the daylight of His love, mercy, and presence in my life. I think growing up in the church, these things get lost sometimes and are replaced by rigid rules and fanatacism.
Think about it , who did Jesus get the most angry with? Not the prostitutes, drunkards and fornicators he hung out with , but with the "religous" Pharisees, the so called religous leaders of the day. Who loaded their memebers down with rules, regulations, and "laws" that killed the spirit..
Just a thought..
I apologize for the rambling Lee, I'm not trying to beat you over the head with any ideas, just some food for thought.
Hope posts like Jason's don't turn you off completally from God, you sound like a very intelligent guy, very thoughtful. I will pray for you, God loves us all, even us questioning, sometimes wayward sons
jASonOfGod said:I didn't write anything to hurt anybody,
the truth of our wickedness is an offense to us.
But God sent Jesus to die for our wicked selves.
Romans 9:30-33
(30) What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. (31) But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. (32) Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; (33) As it is written, Behold, I lay in Zion a stumblingstone and rock of offense: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
1 Peter 2:1-12
(1) Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings, (2) As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: (3) If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious. (4) To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, (5) Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. (6) Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Zion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. (7) Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, (8) And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. (9) But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light: (10) Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. (11) Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul; (12) Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
I was not trying to say I was better than anybody.
I just have not struggled with doubt. I have had many other problems though.
But the truth of Christ has recently been made known to me,
so that I am so thankful that I do not have to live a wicked life
(for now my life is not my own, but Jesus's whom I am indebted to.)
2 Corinthians 10:1-18
(1) Now I Paul myself beseech you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ, who in presence am base among you, but being absent am bold toward you: (2) But I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh. (3) For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (4) (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds; ) (5) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; (6) And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled. (7) Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's. (8) For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority, which the Lord hath given us for edification, and not for your destruction, I should not be ashamed: (9) That I may not seem as if I would terrify you by letters. (10) For his letters, say they, are weighty and powerful; but his bodily presence is weak, and his speech contemptible. (11) Let such a one think this, that, such as we are in word by letters when we are absent, such will we be also in deed when we are present. (12) For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themseves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise. (13) But we will not boast of things without our measure, but according to the measure of the rule which God hath distributed to us, a measure to reach even unto you. (14) For we stretch not ourselves beyond our measure, as though we reached not unto you: for we are come as far as to you also in preaching the gospel of Christ: (15) Not boasting of things without our measure, that is, of other men's labors; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly, (16) To preach the gospel in the regions beyond you, and not to boast in another man's line of things made ready to our hand. (17) But he that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. (18) For not he that commendeth himself is approved, but whom the Lord commendeth.
Those verses, do not appear to me,
to mean that we constantly fight against doubting God.
What I see clearly, is that,
we wage war against our self that rejects Gods ways,
our flesh wishes to do it's own thing, but God would have us do another.
I know much about warring against myself
and getting my body under subjection.
By the Lord God, I am able to accomplish it most of the time.
I do war against my wicked self, so that I do not rebel against Gods ways.
For my flesh desires one thing but my spirit another.
Galatians 5:5-26
(5) For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. (6) For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. (7) Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? (8) This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. (9) A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. (10) I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be. (11) And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offense of the cross ceased. (12) I would they were even cut off which trouble you. (13) For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. (14) For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. (15) But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. (16) This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. (17) For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. (18) But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. (19) Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, (20) Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, (21) Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. (22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, (23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. (24) And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. (25) If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. (26) Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
Matthew 26:41
Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation:
the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
1 Corinthians 9:24-27
(24) Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. (25) And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. (26) I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: (27) But I keepunder my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Romans 8:1-39
(1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. (3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: (4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (5) For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. (6) For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. (7) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. (8) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. (9) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. (10) And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. (11) But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. (12) Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. (13) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. (14) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. (15) For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. (16) The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: (17) And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. (18) For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. (19) For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. (20) For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, (21) Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. (22) For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. (23) And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. (24) For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? (25) But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. (26) Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. (27) And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. (28) And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
I had to remove some of the above for length.
I tried to emphasize the above,
but that is usually very hard to do with God's Word,
it all speaks perfectly together, please read the whole chapter.
In the Love and Truth of Jesus Christ my Lord and Saviour, Jason
Nabob said:It has been 1 month since I left christianity. It's good having people like Jason around, because they make leaving so much easier. This is a time to have fun, so read some books that your christian friends would frown upon. Celebrate the doubts you have, for they are the keys to your freedom, without any man made religion wagging its finger at you. Enjoy your life, and take care!
Nabob:
Nabob said:It has been 1 month since I left christianity. It's good having people like Jason around, because they make leaving so much easier. This is a time to have fun, so read some books that your christian friends would frown upon. Celebrate the doubts you have, for they are the keys to your freedom, without any man made religion wagging its finger at you. Enjoy your life, and take care!
Nabob:
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