I'm new, my name's Victoria, and I have a question.

[dogs4thewin]

Welcome to CF

 

[Kenny'sID]

I would not suggest using the Pentecostal section, for you'll only get Pentecostal responses and the bias therein.

What he said. Go to an unbiased part of CF, and get all views on the matter.

 

[Halbhh]

Hello everybody! My name is Victoria. I'm new here. I'm 27 and grew up in a Christian family. I was raised Baptist although i went to a Catholic school. I don't consider myself religiously ignorant by any means, but I sure don't know all the answers, and i like to learn and to be corrected when wrong. I have a question about something I have always pondered. What in the world does it actually mean? I've never attended a church who participated in this form of worship. My fiance and I have two different opinions. He says it's when you are able to speak another language, that another nationality speaks, but you don't. I disagree. I think it's a language unknown to all of mankind. Basically "jibberish". But not exactly jibberish, I think, when the holy spirit enters you, it allows the true, unknown to man, language to communicate with God. I don't believe speaking in tongues is when for example, an only English language knowing person, is able to start speaking in, say, Norwegian, when the holy spirit enters them. Those are just examples to try to explain what I'm getting at here. I hope someone can understand my question well enough to answer. Thanks for your time. God bless all ❤️

Welcome to CF. Let me 2nd what Michie said: explore the forums and you can ask questions in forum areas such as in the Theology area. You click first on "Forums" itself (instead of any of the sub menu) and that shows you all the forum areas.

Since many are giving answers, we can profitably read 1rst Corinthians chapter 14 (link below) about this very question -- it's answered in scripture!

Of course the answer in Scripture is more sure than just our personal subjective feelings about speaking in tongues. (I'm in the group that thinks this gift was for moments when it has an effect for others -- to help those that speak other languages realize the reality of the Spirit, or to help spread the gospel). But the chapter has more, and better, than only our opinions.

You will see a heading such as --

Intelligibility in Worship

In many bibles.

1 Corinthians 14 NIV
(read full chapter)

We notice that we learn not only more about spiritual events, but also needed rules for church services.

That's quite good to know, as I've been to a very wide variety of churches, and seem some that follow the rules given here, and others that do not.

 

[April_Rose]

Hello there Victoria welcome to CF.

 

[Jok]

As a person who has experienced this...

It's not anything that the speaker does...it's on the listener. The person hearing will understand with perfect clarity.
I don't really speak any language other than English. I Know only a few words and phrases in a bunch of different ones though...

But Nagi one day heard and understood everything I was talking about Jesus...he only truly understands Arabic that they speak in Egypt. He understands enough English to get by...but that's all.
I put up with him... because he's the one really having a hard time living here...and the others refused to work with him. But he's lightning fast and a hard worker.

But that one day...it was really odd and spooky. He understood everything that I was saying about God. Scared him too.

I didn't speak gibberish. Nor does he. Scared us so bad we got out of the area and talked about anything else. (As much as we could)

So...where it's common in charasmatic churches to speak that gibberish...I know nothing about it.

What? Did this just happen in some random spot, and for how long? You involuntarily started talking as if being controlled by a remote control? What did he tell you that you said?

 

[JackRT]

Hello everybody! My name is Victoria. I'm new here. I'm 27 and grew up in a Christian family. I was raised Baptist although i went to a Catholic school. I don't consider myself religiously ignorant by any means, but I sure don't know all the answers, and i like to learn and to be corrected when wrong. I have a question about something I have always pondered. What in the world does it actually mean? I've never attended a church who participated in this form of worship. My fiance and I have two different opinions. He says it's when you are able to speak another language, that another nationality speaks, but you don't. I disagree. I think it's a language unknown to all of mankind. Basically "jibberish". But not exactly jibberish, I think, when the holy spirit enters you, it allows the true, unknown to man, language to communicate with God. I don't believe speaking in tongues is when for example, an only English language knowing person, is able to start speaking in, say, Norwegian, when the holy spirit enters them. Those are just examples to try to explain what I'm getting at here. I hope someone can understand my question well enough to answer. Thanks for your time. God bless all ❤️

In my life I have only witnessed glossolalia on a couple of occasions. Both times it seemed like I was seeing mass hysteria.

 

[JohnDB]

What? Did this just happen in some random spot, and for how long? You involuntarily started talking as if being controlled by a remote control? What did he tell you that you said?

No no no...
I wasn't speaking involuntarily. I knew what I was saying. The Amazing part was Nagi understood everything that I was saying...his English sucks. He understood regularly what I wanted to accomplish as far as work goes because it was easier to demonstrate and him to do as I did. Electrical work is the same around the world... mathematics are a constant.
Communication with him is always problematic... especially when he is nervous and can't concentrate.

But Nagi understood everything that I said about God and Jesus I was talking about. He is what you call a Coptic Christian from Egypt. (Persecution is something that he knows well) He understood the concept of remnants and small groups that come to God...(which is part of what I was talking about) He really understood everything that I said...and his English is very poor... normally when relaxed he can usually pick up about half.

I've been to his church and helped them out with some construction too...I am an electrician... strange customs but understandable. When I shook the priest's hand he was flabbergasted. He's used to them trying to kiss his hand and he pulls it away before they can. But he was still kind and nice... seen him again at a HFH house build warming.
Seen Nagi several times over the years...

And that one day still spooks both of us. Neither of us was trying to do anything special... just having a work day. But it was anything but normal.

 

[TexFire316]

Hello everybody! My name is Victoria. I'm new here. I'm 27 and grew up in a Christian family. I was raised Baptist although i went to a Catholic school. I don't consider myself religiously ignorant by any means, but I sure don't know all the answers, and i like to learn and to be corrected when wrong. I have a question about something I have always pondered. What in the world does it actually mean? I've never attended a church who participated in this form of worship. My fiance and I have two different opinions. He says it's when you are able to speak another language, that another nationality speaks, but you don't. I disagree. I think it's a language unknown to all of mankind. Basically "jibberish". But not exactly jibberish, I think, when the holy spirit enters you, it allows the true, unknown to man, language to communicate with God. I don't believe speaking in tongues is when for example, an only English language knowing person, is able to start speaking in, say, Norwegian, when the holy spirit enters them. Those are just examples to try to explain what I'm getting at here. I hope someone can understand my question well enough to answer. Thanks for your time. God bless all ❤️

Hello Victoria, welcome to the forum!
So, this God language is a language that only God understands? I'm not trying to be a smart aleck (well maybe a little) but does He not know how to use english?
I'm with your b/f, it's a human language.

 

[Jok]

No no no...
I wasn't speaking involuntarily. I knew what I was saying.

Wow you had me so excited I thought you meant that the brilliant articulation skills of the holy spirit took you over and you were making Jesus level arguments to someone with no effort whatsoever! Come on John just lie to me, why did you have to take my excitement away like that! Lol just kidding, however it reminds me of a classic Cheers episode where Frasier kept lying to the gang to keep their excitement going lol;

The Amazing part was Nagi understood everything that I was saying...his English sucks. He understood regularly what I wanted to accomplish as far as work goes because it was easier to demonstrate and him to do as I did. Electrical work is the same around the world... mathematics are a constant.
Communication with him is always problematic... especially when he is nervous and can't concentrate.

But Nagi understood everything that I said about God and Jesus I was talking about. He is what you call a Coptic Christian from Egypt. (Persecution is something that he knows well) He understood the concept of remnants and small groups that come to God...(which is part of what I was talking about) He really understood everything that I said...and his English is very poor... normally when relaxed he can usually pick up about half.

I've been to his church and helped them out with some construction too...I am an electrician... strange customs but understandable. When I shook the priest's hand he was flabbergasted. He's used to them trying to kiss his hand and he pulls it away before they can. But he was still kind and nice... seen him again at a HFH house build warming.
Seen Nagi several times over the years...

And that one day still spooks both of us. Neither of us was trying to do anything special... just having a work day. But it was anything but normal.

Ok although not as exciting as my first impression that’s very fascinating. I definitely know what you mean I have worked with people who had a very poor English understanding, I could not imagine having crystal clear clarity with them in any conversation. How long did it last? Were you 100% spooked out, or did a part of you wanna keep it going because the clarity was exciting? It’s rather telling that both of you were equally blown away by the experience.

 

[Radagast]

I have a question about something I have always pondered.

We have a new thread on the subject: Speaking In Tongues

 

[AppleCider]

.

 

[George95]

MOD HAT ON

This thread has been moved from Introduce Yourself to General Theology.

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[AmigodeJesus]

He says it's when you are able to speak another language, that another nationality speaks, but you don't. I disagree.

He's right. However, let's consider your position for a moment. What do you base it upon? Feeling? A scripture (if so, which texts)?

 

[BobRyan]

Hello everybody! My name is Victoria. I'm new here. I'm 27 and grew up in a Christian family. I was raised Baptist although i went to a Catholic school. I don't consider myself religiously ignorant by any means, but I sure don't know all the answers, and i like to learn and to be corrected when wrong. I have a question about something I have always pondered. What in the world does it actually mean? I've never attended a church who participated in this form of worship. My fiance and I have two different opinions. He says it's when you are able to speak another language, that another nationality speaks, but you don't. I disagree. I think it's a language unknown to all of mankind. Basically "jibberish". But not exactly jibberish, I think, when the holy spirit enters you, it allows the true, unknown to man, language to communicate with God. I don't believe speaking in tongues is when for example, an only English language knowing person, is able to start speaking in, say, Norwegian, when the holy spirit enters them. Those are just examples to try to explain what I'm getting at here. I hope someone can understand my question well enough to answer. Thanks for your time. God bless all ❤️

Welcome to the board!

You are on the right track - ask questions ... compare answers to the Bible.

Acts 2
. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.

6 And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language. 7 They were amazed and astonished, saying, “Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya around Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and Arabs—we hear them in our own tongues speaking of the mighty deeds of God.” 12 And they all continued in amazement and great perplexity, saying to one another, “What does this mean?”

1 Cor 14 -- Tongues are given - for the purpose of being a "sign to unbelievers" just as we see in Acts 2

22 So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe

Tongues is pure jibberish to unbelievers if the unbeliever does not understand that tongue - and proof that the person speaking is not credible according to 1 Cor 14 - its purpose is destroyed in such cases

1 Co 14
9 So also you, unless you utter by the tongue speech that is clear, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air. 10 There are, perhaps, a great many kinds of languages in the world, and no kind is without meaning. 11 If then I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be to the one who speaks a barbarian, and the one who speaks will be a barbarian to me.

 

[Bob Crowley]

I think it will remain a controversial topic because it can sound like gibberish to bystanders who have no experience of it. I've never spoken in tongues myself, but I've heard others do so. Unfortunately no interpretation was offered, so it meant nothing to me.

Nevertheless I've put a Catholic Charismatic link here - (aka Catholic Pentecostals)

What is the gift of tongues? - Articles - Catholic Charismatic Renewal

There was one interesting except in the article -

As with all the gifts of the Spirit, these graces (or charisms), as St. Thomas Aquinas taught, are for evangelisation – the sharing of the faith.

This is obvious in the case of speaking in tongues (as opposed to praying in tongues); for example, one friend at university was enabled by the Holy Spirit to speak to a group of French students, even though he knew no French. He was not only able to help them but also to share his faith with these young people.

I've also heard of a man who went to a synagogue and started praying along in tongues and heard later from his neighbour in the service that he had been praying fluently in Hebrew.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Hello everybody! My name is Victoria. I'm new here. I'm 27 and grew up in a Christian family. I was raised Baptist although i went to a Catholic school. I don't consider myself religiously ignorant by any means, but I sure don't know all the answers, and i like to learn and to be corrected when wrong. I have a question about something I have always pondered. What in the world does it actually mean? I've never attended a church who participated in this form of worship. My fiance and I have two different opinions. He says it's when you are able to speak another language, that another nationality speaks, but you don't. I disagree. I think it's a language unknown to all of mankind. Basically "jibberish". But not exactly jibberish, I think, when the holy spirit enters you, it allows the true, unknown to man, language to communicate with God. I don't believe speaking in tongues is when for example, an only English language knowing person, is able to start speaking in, say, Norwegian, when the holy spirit enters them. Those are just examples to try to explain what I'm getting at here. I hope someone can understand my question well enough to answer. Thanks for your time. God bless all ❤️

Speaking in tongues is referenced for both situations in the scriptures. It’s referred to as speaking the language of the angels and speaking the language of all nations. Personally I’m a bit skeptical about speaking tongues and I would love to see a study done where people attempt to interpret a recording of someone speaking in tongues and see if any of them actually get the same interpretation. If it is done successfully it would sure be a very convincing piece of evidence to support this belief.

 

[Scott Husted]

Hello everybody! My name is Victoria. I'm new here. I'm 27 and grew up in a Christian family. I was raised Baptist although i went to a Catholic school. I don't consider myself religiously ignorant by any means, but I sure don't know all the answers, and i like to learn and to be corrected when wrong. I have a question about something I have always pondered. What in the world does it actually mean? I've never attended a church who participated in this form of worship. My fiance and I have two different opinions. He says it's when you are able to speak another language, that another nationality speaks, but you don't. I disagree. I think it's a language unknown to all of mankind. Basically "jibberish". But not exactly jibberish, I think, when the holy spirit enters you, it allows the true, unknown to man, language to communicate with God. I don't believe speaking in tongues is when for example, an only English language knowing person, is able to start speaking in, say, Norwegian, when the holy spirit enters them. Those are just examples to try to explain what I'm getting at here. I hope someone can understand my question well enough to answer. Thanks for your time. God bless all ❤️

As its been said, it's both... and welcome ...

 

[1213]

... I don't believe speaking in tongues is when for example, an only English language knowing person, is able to start speaking in, say, Norwegian, when the holy spirit enters them. Those are just examples to try to explain what I'm getting at here. ...

In Bible it seems to mean that people were able to speak so that people heard them in their own language:

Phrygia, Pamphylia, Egypt, the parts of Libya around Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians: we hear them speaking in our languages the mighty works of God!" They were all amazed, and were perplexed, saying one to another, "What does this mean?"
Acts 2:10-12

Later in the Bible it is also told that person can speak in language that humans can’t understand.

For he who speaks in another language speaks not to men, but to God; for no one understands; but in the Spirit he speaks mysteries.
1 Cor. 14:2

So, I think you both can be correct.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Hello everybody! My name is Victoria. I'm new here. I'm 27 and grew up in a Christian family. I was raised Baptist although i went to a Catholic school. I don't consider myself religiously ignorant by any means, but I sure don't know all the answers, and i like to learn and to be corrected when wrong. I have a question about something I have always pondered. What in the world does it actually mean? I've never attended a church who participated in this form of worship. My fiance and I have two different opinions. He says it's when you are able to speak another language, that another nationality speaks, but you don't. I disagree. I think it's a language unknown to all of mankind. Basically "jibberish". But not exactly jibberish, I think, when the holy spirit enters you, it allows the true, unknown to man, language to communicate with God. I don't believe speaking in tongues is when for example, an only English language knowing person, is able to start speaking in, say, Norwegian, when the holy spirit enters them. Those are just examples to try to explain what I'm getting at here. I hope someone can understand my question well enough to answer. Thanks for your time. God bless all ❤️

There is no settled answer to the question. Those coming from the Pentecostal tradition and the larger Charismatic movement will very often understand glossolalia (the technical term for "speaking in tongues") as a thoroughly spiritual experience wherein the language is not (or does not have to be) an actual language.

I grew up Pentecostal (Church of the Foursquare Gospel), but I haven't identified as Pentecostal or Charismatic for a very long time. And my beliefs from my Pentecostal days toward my coming to Lutheranism changed a great deal, though honestly, a bit slowly.

Historically the Christian Church understood the book of the Acts of the Apostles to be descriptive, not prescriptive. That is, it describes the earliest years of the Church in the beginning of the apostolic ministry of preaching the Gospel. But it was never really read as being prescriptive, that is, as saying "This is what the Church is supposed to look like". This is why after the apostles died, nobody bothered trying to argue that there should be new apostles, in the same way that we see Matthias chosen to replace Judas Iscariot. It's why we don't see early Christians trying to recreate the sorts of unique circumstances that we read about in the Acts, such as the profound historical event of Pentecost, the sending and giving of the Holy Spirit to the Church as Christ promised. Rather the events as recorded in the Acts describe how the Church got its start, and set everything in motion.

So when, for example, early Christians also took note that things like glossolalia was increasingly less common, they didn't see this as something horrible that needed to be fixed, but rather instead saw this instead as simply history in action. The reason why glossolalia existed in the beginning was as a sign for the unbelieving, as St. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 14, that it is a sign not for the believing but the unbelieving, then quoting the Prophet Isaiah who said that God would speak to a stubborn people with strange tongues, but that they would not hear. That is, the operation of God's work through the speaking of tongues, languages which were very much real (see Acts of the Apostles 2:4-12) was God's sign to the unbelieving of Israel, to not pay attention to this was therefore the evidence of a stubbornness, a refusal to recognize the fulfillment of God's promises.

This isn't to say that glossolalia necessarily ceased completely. Historic Christian thinking neither conforms to the modern categories of Cessationism (the belief that some of the gifts of the Spirit were exclusive to the apostolic age and have ceased) nor Continualism (the belief that all the gifts of the Spirit remain and are vital to the spiritual life of the Church). Rather, it is perhaps more fair to say that the Church historically saw certain gifts as being necessitated by circumstances, the purpose of glossolalia is highly contextual, given to meet the needs of breaking down certain linguistic barriers as expressions of God's miraculous activity for the purposes of the Gospel. As it's not as though records of glossolalia happening simply ceased at some point historically, but from even very early on such things happen sporadically, and very often only as hearsay. And this kind of mode of thinking is more-or-less what dominated the way Christians understood this for the vast majority of Christian history (whether we are talking about Catholics, or Orthodox, or Protestants).

We don't really start seeing a shift in this thinking until some of the Protestant revival movements (chiefly in the United States) during the 19th century. What we see is a heightened sense of what we would call pietism (the idea that the Christian life should be marked in outward ways by holy living), emotionalism (the Christian experience should invoke strong feeling from within the Christian), and at times ecstaticism (people fainting, wailing, shouting, dancing, spontaneous or even some might argue erratic behavior). The modern phenomenon of "speaking in tongues" can essentially be traced to some of these revivalistic tendencies--in particular the ecstatic--of the 18th, but especially the 19th century revival movements that were sweeping the US.

It is, in fact, precisely within this context that we have what is usually recognized as the birth place of Pentecostalism: the 1906 Azusa Street Revivals in San Francisco, California. These revivals began with the preaching of William Seymour, a revival preacher from Texas who had studied under another revival preacher by the name of Charles Fox Parham. What makes this particular set of revivals and circumstances unique, especially in the context of the Pentecostal tradition, is that Parham was the first to believe that speaking in tongues was the distinctive sign that one had been baptized with the Holy Spirit, an experience which among some revivalist preachers (including Parham) had come to be defined and understood as a special subsequent experience in Christian life following conversion. This is quite different from the historical Christian view.

Nevertheless Parham associated these two things together, where speaking in tongues as an ecstatic experience became the definitive sign that one had been baptized with the Holy Spirit. This was the teaching Parham left with his disciple Seymour, and through the work and influence of Seymour and the Azusa Street Revivals, and the establishment of new church bodies to accommodate these teachings and practices (that is, the Pentecostal denominations), these were the ideas which came through here, and were an important mark of early Pentecostalism. While this does not necessarily, today, represent all Pentecostals, and isn't necessarily a primary idea for the Charismatic movements of the mid and late 20th century, these are the sorts of ideas that we see fomenting in the beginning of Pentecostalism, in the larger context of late 19th century American revivalism.

So, for me personally, I do not believe that glossolalia can't happen today (I'm not a Cessationist), but neither am I a Continuationist, that is, I don't view glossolalia as something of importance, as though we should see it happening whether frequently or infrequently. But in addition, I do not regard much of what passes for speaking in tongues/glossolalia in the modern world to actually be speaking in tongues/glossolalia. But unlike some, I also don't think that it is diabolical in nature--I think it is a purely human, natural phenomenon, an expression of human ecstaticism that is actually very common around the world. Now, I do think ecstaticism is problematic; not because I think it is diabolical, but because of the inherent danger of confusing human behavior with the divine activity of the Holy Spirit. This is, as I see it, an extension of the inherent dangers of Revivalism itself--the effective supplanting of the objective means of Grace in the Church with subjective, experiential phenomenon. Or, to phrase it another way, the upholding of subjective feelings over and against the Gospel.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Sketcher]

Hello everybody! My name is Victoria. I'm new here. I'm 27 and grew up in a Christian family. I was raised Baptist although i went to a Catholic school. I don't consider myself religiously ignorant by any means, but I sure don't know all the answers, and i like to learn and to be corrected when wrong. I have a question about something I have always pondered. What in the world does it actually mean? I've never attended a church who participated in this form of worship. My fiance and I have two different opinions. He says it's when you are able to speak another language, that another nationality speaks, but you don't. I disagree. I think it's a language unknown to all of mankind. Basically "jibberish". But not exactly jibberish, I think, when the holy spirit enters you, it allows the true, unknown to man, language to communicate with God. I don't believe speaking in tongues is when for example, an only English language knowing person, is able to start speaking in, say, Norwegian, when the holy spirit enters them. Those are just examples to try to explain what I'm getting at here. I hope someone can understand my question well enough to answer. Thanks for your time. God bless all ❤️

Acts 2:2-11 clearly teaches that the gift of tongues includes when the Spirit enables you to speak in another language known by others that you do not know. 1 Corinthians 14 appears to extend our understanding of tongues beyond that - but it doesn't cancel what is taught in Acts.