I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore

Bible Highlighter · Nov 5, 2019

AvisG said:
I was recently motivated to return here for a few postings by my increasing disgust and dismay with that which calls itself "Christianity," at least in the U.S. This disgust and dismay has reached the point where, after 48 years of self-identifying as a Christian of some species (originally a door-pounding Campus Crusader!), I hesitate even to identify myself as a Christian.

The disgust and dismay that I'm talking about has nothing whatsoever to do with any particular branch of Christendom - Catholics, Southern Baptists, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, United Methodists, Whatever. It has to do with all of "Christianity," the vast industry that purports to operate in Jesus' name.

It's precisely that - a vast, money-grubbing industry that is virtually indistinguishable from any other vast, money-grubbing industry. (There is of course one major difference: McDonald's, Wendy's and Burger King at least don't pretend to be doing God's work.)

The vast accumulations of wealth, the vast real estate holdings, the endless stream of products to sell (oops, to "give" you in return for your "generous donation" of at least $25), the celebrity leaders, the oh-so-obvious greed and ambition, the intense competition, yada yada yada - it's indistinguishable from any secular industry, with the minor exception that it purports to operate in the name of God and fleeces its "customers" in the name of God.

I happened to turn on the Christian Satellite Network yesterday just in time to hear the ubiquitous and smarmy Pastor Robert Jeffress for three minutes. In that short time, he managed to do a commercial for his latest "study tool" that you can't live without, a commercial for his latest book that I doubt he's even read but you likewise can't live without, and an extended commercial for his upcoming Alaska cruise (replete with a variety of entertainment, including a comedian!). For some reason, it hit me as the LAST STRAW. I've listened to Christian radio with increasing disgust and dismay for years, but I turned it off and said "THAT'S IT - I'm DONE with this sort of 'Christianity!'")

The problem is, "this sort of Christianity" pretty much IS "Christianity" in the U.S. And I haven't even mentioned the evangelicals for whom "Christianity" is little more than a code word for the right-wing political agenda (much of which I happen to favor, but I don't pretend that Jesus was a capitalist or that God cares one whit about the right to bear arms).

Does anyone actually think "Christianity" as it exists in the U.S. (and elsewhere, of course) has ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING that Jesus was actually talking about??? Sure, even the most craven segments of "Christianity" do some (or even much) good work, but so do entirely secular corporations (and for pretty much exactly the same reason - it's essential public relations and ultimately enhances the bottom line).

As far as I can tell, the problem with "Christianity" is the same as the problem with everything else: human nature. The ambition, greed and lust that dominate every other sector of society dominate "Christianity" as well, with the exception that in "Christianity" they wear a deceiving cloak of godliness. The reality is, MONEY IS GOD, within "Christianity" as everywhere else, with FAME and SEX as the other parts of the unholy trinity. Isn't this a bit of a mystery? Where is the Holy Spirit in all this?

Indeed, the way that human nature operates within "Christianity" is particularly insidious. Those who are most consumed by greed and ambition can deceive themselves and their flocks into believing that they are doing God's work and that the excesses are God's blessing.

Read the Sermon On the Mount. Pay attention to the red-letter portions of your NT. Can you seriously say that "Christianity" as it exists today has ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING that Jesus was talking about??? It's a complete perversion of EVERYTHING that Jesus was talking about. What Jesus was talking about was something so radical that it's never even been attempted on a large scale and, at this point, never will be this side of the Second Coming.

Yes, I am ranting. Yes, I sound extremely cynical. But I at least have HAD IT with the entire phenomenon, the entire mega-industry, that calls itself "Christianity."

Oh, sure, your denomination is different. Oh, sure, your church is different. Oh, sure, you are different. Enjoy the potlucks.

Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at.

Being mad in general is not the right approach, my friend.
I am also disgusted by the state of Christianity today, but I am mad at the sin and not the sinner. Jesus says we are to love our enemies, and to pray for them. We should not be mad. Oh, and the guy in the video used a curse word. This is not of God. We are not to curse. We are also not to just hate blindly. We are to love God and love our neighbor (Which is all people). Also, nobody is going to get away with anything. There is no injustice with God so as to get mad. There will be a judgment, and believers who justify sin and or who live in sin are not going to make it. We should not be mad at them for not truly following Jesus, but we should seek to beg and plead with them in love for their lives. Sin is a disease and a sickness that attacks people's minds and lives. It destroys them in the end. The enemy wants nothing more but to kill, steal, and destroy. We should love and cry out in love to those who truly need to have Jesus living in their lives (Whereby they will defend in following Jesus).

Anyways, I hope what I said here helps, and may God bless you this fine day.
Remember, the fruits of the Spirit, my friend.
One of the fruits of the Spirit is not mindless anger, but it is love.
Sure, we can be mad at unrighteousness and or sin, but we should not let it consume us, but it should spur us on to love others. We are to be a light in the darkness (by shining the words of Jesus unto them). Sure, they may not accept God's Word today, but maybe in time they will after we pray and love them for a long period of time.

I hope this helps.

Peace be unto you in the Lord.

Sincerely,

~ J.

AvisG · Nov 5, 2019

Hammster said:
Scripture?

Do you need Scripture to change the oil in your car, buy a hot dog or take a pee? I don't.

S.O.J.I.A. · Nov 5, 2019

So what does what everyone else is doing have to do with your devotion to the LORD?

Bible Highlighter · Nov 5, 2019

AvisG said:
I was recently motivated to return here for a few postings by my increasing disgust and dismay with that which calls itself "Christianity," at least in the U.S. This disgust and dismay has reached the point where, after 48 years of self-identifying as a Christian of some species (originally a door-pounding Campus Crusader!), I hesitate even to identify myself as a Christian.

The disgust and dismay that I'm talking about has nothing whatsoever to do with any particular branch of Christendom - Catholics, Southern Baptists, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, United Methodists, Whatever. It has to do with all of "Christianity," the vast industry that purports to operate in Jesus' name.

It's precisely that - a vast, money-grubbing industry that is virtually indistinguishable from any other vast, money-grubbing industry. (There is of course one major difference: McDonald's, Wendy's and Burger King at least don't pretend to be doing God's work.)

The vast accumulations of wealth, the vast real estate holdings, the endless stream of products to sell (oops, to "give" you in return for your "generous donation" of at least $25), the celebrity leaders, the oh-so-obvious greed and ambition, the intense competition, yada yada yada - it's indistinguishable from any secular industry, with the minor exception that it purports to operate in the name of God and fleeces its "customers" in the name of God.

I happened to turn on the Christian Satellite Network yesterday just in time to hear the ubiquitous and smarmy Pastor Robert Jeffress for three minutes. In that short time, he managed to do a commercial for his latest "study tool" that you can't live without, a commercial for his latest book that I doubt he's even read but you likewise can't live without, and an extended commercial for his upcoming Alaska cruise (replete with a variety of entertainment, including a comedian!). For some reason, it hit me as the LAST STRAW. I've listened to Christian radio with increasing disgust and dismay for years, but I turned it off and said "THAT'S IT - I'm DONE with this sort of 'Christianity!'")

The problem is, "this sort of Christianity" pretty much IS "Christianity" in the U.S. And I haven't even mentioned the evangelicals for whom "Christianity" is little more than a code word for the right-wing political agenda (much of which I happen to favor, but I don't pretend that Jesus was a capitalist or that God cares one whit about the right to bear arms).

Does anyone actually think "Christianity" as it exists in the U.S. (and elsewhere, of course) has ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING that Jesus was actually talking about??? Sure, even the most craven segments of "Christianity" do some (or even much) good work, but so do entirely secular corporations (and for pretty much exactly the same reason - it's essential public relations and ultimately enhances the bottom line).

As far as I can tell, the problem with "Christianity" is the same as the problem with everything else: human nature. The ambition, greed and lust that dominate every other sector of society dominate "Christianity" as well, with the exception that in "Christianity" they wear a deceiving cloak of godliness. The reality is, MONEY IS GOD, within "Christianity" as everywhere else, with FAME and SEX as the other parts of the unholy trinity. Isn't this a bit of a mystery? Where is the Holy Spirit in all this?

Indeed, the way that human nature operates within "Christianity" is particularly insidious. Those who are most consumed by greed and ambition can deceive themselves and their flocks into believing that they are doing God's work and that the excesses are God's blessing.

Read the Sermon On the Mount. Pay attention to the red-letter portions of your NT. Can you seriously say that "Christianity" as it exists today has ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING that Jesus was talking about??? It's a complete perversion of EVERYTHING that Jesus was talking about. What Jesus was talking about was something so radical that it's never even been attempted on a large scale and, at this point, never will be this side of the Second Coming.

Yes, I am ranting. Yes, I sound extremely cynical. But I at least have HAD IT with the entire phenomenon, the entire mega-industry, that calls itself "Christianity."

Oh, sure, your denomination is different. Oh, sure, your church is different. Oh, sure, you are different. Enjoy the potlucks.

Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at.

In addition, Jesus said narrow is the way that leads to life, and FEW be there that find it. In Matthew 13:41-42, Jesus will send forth his angels and they will gather out of His kingdom (anyone who professes to be a follower of Jesus), and if they work iniquity or sin, they will be cast into the furnace of fire (i.e. the Lake of Fire). This means that millions are not going to make it. I believe this is what drives us. If everyone was doing what was right, there would be no motivation to plead with men for their lives in love.

Brian Mcnamee · Nov 5, 2019

Hi this is a good observation on your part shows some discernment. This is what we should expect if we read our Bibles and see that it predicts false teachers to come using flattery as a way of using the flock for covetous gains. The abandoning of sound doctrine is mentioned as well as tickling the peoples ears. The scriptures have not changed and there are still many churches who uphold teaching the word to equip the saints for the work of the ministry. The solution is to find churches that don't need a fog machine and light show to get you in the door and that teach exhort and rebuke us to walk worthy of the calling of Christ. My church is not perfect but does those above things as its primary focus.

Carl Emerson · Nov 5, 2019

'A Realist' said
===============================
Just do what I did. Back away from it. Get out of organized Christianity. Live your life according to the dictates of your conscience.

I say "your conscience" instead of "the spirit", because "the spirit" because if everyone were living their lives according to the dictates of the same "spirit", then the Church wouldn't be facing the issues it has today.
================================

This is not the answer...

The conscience is no substitute for the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit IS God.

Decoding your advice - you are saying forget God within, just do what seems right for you according to your conscience.

How can anyone who truely loves Jesus do this.

This adds to the problem of believers not following Him.

You end up doing the very thing you want to avoid.

2PhiloVoid · Nov 5, 2019

AvisG said:
Bingo. That is the only solution (such as it is) that I see as well.

A number of posters seem to misunderstand what I'm saying. What I'm talking about really can't be addressed by praying for my brothers and sisters or trying to be a positive influence or whatever. I do not believe that "Christianity" is Christianity AT ALL. I'm obviously in no position to judge who is or who isn't a Christian - and I certainly don't hold myself out as a shining example - but my conclusion on the basis of long experience is that "Christianity" has no more to do with what Jesus was talking about than does Microsoft or Nike or any other massive corporation with a fairly active social conscience. Sure, I can and do pray, but I really don't believe there is anything to do with "Christianity" but withdraw from it and go my own way according to the dictates of my conscience.

Sure, Robert Jeffress is less than nothing in the great scheme of "Christianity." He is hardly the villain of my rant. I simply said that his three minutes of unabashed self-promotion just happened to hit me yesterday as the last straw. I had been ranting to my wife in the vein of my OP, went out to the garage to lift weights, turned on the radio, and was immediately greeted by Jeffress three-minute commercial. The timing was so perfect that I might well have regarded it as divine confirmation of my rant.

I have attended numerous local churches in numerous locations over my 48-year association with "Christianity."

AvisG, I think we can all say that there are and have been individual expressions of the Christian faith, along with more corporate ones, which seem to run afoul of personalized agendas and assorted corruptions that don't reflect the glory of Christ. At the same time, we might want to be careful about blacklisting the entirety of folks who we think represent some level of church failure. It might also help your case if you don't shake a stick at what seems to be a rather vague notion of "Christianity" upon which you intend to intensely beat.

I can understand some of your wish to rant against what you see as corruption within the Church(es), even perhaps one that extends all the way back in some ways to Constantine, a notion that seems to be shared to some extent, even if not identically by Howard Vos (1994, pp. 49-50). But even if there have been some shortcomings in various locales among a plethora of Christian groups and movements through the centuries, it might be a bit too caustic to just claim that "all this Christian stuff" isn't really "Christian stuff," which isn't to say that you're wrong wholesale in your OP stance, but you might be stretching the whole 'apostasy' trope just a bit beyond biblical bounds.

Sure, like Good Fruit Inspectors, we all should be wary and inspect the fruit of this or that supposedly fellow Christian group (...Westboro, anybody?), but at the same time, being that people are people even when they are Christian people, imperfect and seeing the Truth of Christ "through a glass darkly," we might want to make sure some level of charity is displayed by ourselves, among ourselves, as we existentially walk each day into the future and encounter others who 'claim' the mantle of Christian.

Reference
Vos, Howard F. (1994). Introduction to church history. Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers.

the last child · Nov 5, 2019

Dave G. said:
The idea is we come humbly before God in prayer and supplication. Please only stay mad for so long and take it before God. Emotionalism doesn't impress Him, pride doesn't impress Him any more than commercial Christianity. We pour our hearts out before the Lord don't we ?

Sometimes we are best off in small groups who/where the remnant can be found. I believe there is such a remnant being pulled out by Jesus Christ Himself, who know Him personally. But on the flip side, it costs a ton of money to run a tv ministry world wide. Where would you get that money from ? Because Jesus did say the gospel had to go world wide before his return, He did not say what that would look like in 2019 .

AvisG said:
Bingo. That is the only solution (such as it is) that I see as well.

A number of posters seem to misunderstand what I'm saying. What I'm talking about really can't be addressed by praying for my brothers and sisters or trying to be a positive influence or whatever. I do not believe that "Christianity" is Christianity AT ALL. I'm obviously in no position to judge who is or who isn't a Christian - and I certainly don't hold myself out as a shining example - but my conclusion on the basis of long experience is that "Christianity" has no more to do with what Jesus was talking about than does Microsoft or Nike or any other massive corporation with a fairly active social conscience. Sure, I can and do pray, but I really don't believe there is anything to do with "Christianity" but withdraw from it and go my own way according to the dictates of my conscience.

Sure, Robert Jeffress is less than nothing in the great scheme of "Christianity." He is hardly the villain of my rant. I simply said that his three minutes of unabashed self-promotion just happened to hit me yesterday as the last straw. I had been ranting to my wife in the vein of my OP, went out to the garage to lift weights, turned on the radio, and was immediately greeted by Jeffress three-minute commercial. The timing was so perfect that I might well have regarded it as divine confirmation of my rant.

How sad! I saw a documentary once and there was a man on there who was a friend of a well known evangelist. He had been an avid Evangelist and pastor himself for many years. And then he just walked away. The problem wasn’t with Christianity. The problem was he wasn’t really a sealed believer to begin with, so he was trying to fit in with a flock he didn’t belong to for decades and decades. What I never understood was how some people could just turn their backs. But some people do. We were given a choice after all. He bled for that choice.

2PhiloVoid · Nov 5, 2019

AvisG said:
Do you need Scripture to change the oil in your car, buy a hot dog or take a pee? I don't.

... oh, I don't know about that! The Bible might come in handy in some seemingly menial cases of life, especially if the corporations that perform our oil changes, produce the hot dogs we think we're about to eat with 'thanks,' or give us a place by which to flush our concerns down to the sewer aren't overly concerned about the how, what, when, why, or who they affect with their business practices and/or their products. In such instances, the Bible and some deeper philosophically inclined prayer might prove to be useful.

Hammster · Nov 5, 2019

AvisG said:
I have attended numerous local churches in numerous locations over my 48-year association with "Christianity."

I’m sorry that you’ve chosen to attend bad churches. I’ve been a member of two over the last 25 years, and have not seen anything like what you describe.

BNR32FAN · Nov 5, 2019

AvisG said:
I was recently motivated to return here for a few postings by my increasing disgust and dismay with that which calls itself "Christianity," at least in the U.S. This disgust and dismay has reached the point where, after 48 years of self-identifying as a Christian of some species (originally a door-pounding Campus Crusader!), I hesitate even to identify myself as a Christian.

The disgust and dismay that I'm talking about has nothing whatsoever to do with any particular branch of Christendom - Catholics, Southern Baptists, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, United Methodists, Whatever. It has to do with all of "Christianity," the vast industry that purports to operate in Jesus' name.

It's precisely that - a vast, money-grubbing industry that is virtually indistinguishable from any other vast, money-grubbing industry. (There is of course one major difference: McDonald's, Wendy's and Burger King at least don't pretend to be doing God's work.)

The vast accumulations of wealth, the vast real estate holdings, the endless stream of products to sell (oops, to "give" you in return for your "generous donation" of at least $25), the celebrity leaders, the oh-so-obvious greed and ambition, the intense competition, yada yada yada - it's indistinguishable from any secular industry, with the minor exception that it purports to operate in the name of God and fleeces its "customers" in the name of God.

I happened to turn on the Christian Satellite Network yesterday just in time to hear the ubiquitous and smarmy Pastor Robert Jeffress for three minutes. In that short time, he managed to do a commercial for his latest "study tool" that you can't live without, a commercial for his latest book that I doubt he's even read but you likewise can't live without, and an extended commercial for his upcoming Alaska cruise (replete with a variety of entertainment, including a comedian!). For some reason, it hit me as the LAST STRAW. I've listened to Christian radio with increasing disgust and dismay for years, but I turned it off and said "THAT'S IT - I'm DONE with this sort of 'Christianity!'")

The problem is, "this sort of Christianity" pretty much IS "Christianity" in the U.S. And I haven't even mentioned the evangelicals for whom "Christianity" is little more than a code word for the right-wing political agenda (much of which I happen to favor, but I don't pretend that Jesus was a capitalist or that God cares one whit about the right to bear arms).

Does anyone actually think "Christianity" as it exists in the U.S. (and elsewhere, of course) has ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING that Jesus was actually talking about??? Sure, even the most craven segments of "Christianity" do some (or even much) good work, but so do entirely secular corporations (and for pretty much exactly the same reason - it's essential public relations and ultimately enhances the bottom line).

As far as I can tell, the problem with "Christianity" is the same as the problem with everything else: human nature. The ambition, greed and lust that dominate every other sector of society dominate "Christianity" as well, with the exception that in "Christianity" they wear a deceiving cloak of godliness. The reality is, MONEY IS GOD, within "Christianity" as everywhere else, with FAME and SEX as the other parts of the unholy trinity. Isn't this a bit of a mystery? Where is the Holy Spirit in all this?

Indeed, the way that human nature operates within "Christianity" is particularly insidious. Those who are most consumed by greed and ambition can deceive themselves and their flocks into believing that they are doing God's work and that the excesses are God's blessing.

Read the Sermon On the Mount. Pay attention to the red-letter portions of your NT. Can you seriously say that "Christianity" as it exists today has ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING that Jesus was talking about??? It's a complete perversion of EVERYTHING that Jesus was talking about. What Jesus was talking about was something so radical that it's never even been attempted on a large scale and, at this point, never will be this side of the Second Coming.

Yes, I am ranting. Yes, I sound extremely cynical. But I at least have HAD IT with the entire phenomenon, the entire mega-industry, that calls itself "Christianity."

Oh, sure, your denomination is different. Oh, sure, your church is different. Oh, sure, you are different. Enjoy the potlucks.

Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at.

You should attend my church FAAC in Arlington Tx if you get a chance. The Holy Spirit is definitely at work there my friend.

Hammster · Nov 5, 2019

AvisG said:
Do you need Scripture to change the oil in your car, buy a hot dog or take a pee? I don't.

No, but there not the discussion now, is it.

the last child · Nov 5, 2019

I’m sorry guys I am new to this forum and I just realized I was writing in the wrong box. It is a little confusing bc when I hit the reply button it takes me to the box that I was typing in, so I assumed that was where I was supposed to type my response. This isn’t clearest interface

A Realist · Nov 5, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
This is not the answer...

The conscience is no substitute for the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit IS God.

Decoding your advice - you are saying forget God within, just do what seems right for you according to your conscience.

Apparently then, there are people listening to several different holy spirits. If everyone was living according to the dictates of the Holy Spirit (as so many claim), they would all dancing to the same tune - and that just ain't happening. In fact, that's never happened.

Of course each one will say the other isn't really being guided by the spirit, or they would believe the same way I (we) do.

Sorry Carl, but I'm a realist.....I know when someone's peein' in a fan and telling everyone else it's raining.

charsan · Nov 5, 2019

Hammster said:
How is your local church different?

Exactly. In my Church we gather to worship God and partake of the Most Holy Eucharist. Further it is quite disingenuous of the OP to lump all Churches together as if he knows all Churches no matter how long he has been around

Carl Emerson · Nov 5, 2019

A Realist said:
Apparently then, there are people listening to several different holy spirits. If everyone was living according to the dictates of the Holy Spirit (as so many claim), they would all dancing to the same tune - and that just ain't happening. In fact, that's never happened.

Of course each one will say the other isn't really being guided by the spirit, or they would believe the same way I (we) do.

Sorry Carl, but I'm a realist.....I know when someone's peein' in a fan and claiming it's raining.

You are correct that Christendom is rife with false claims but that is the nature of the battle. Paul contested this from day one. That doesn't mean we should advise soldiers to go AWOL. Better to work out one's own salvation with fear and trembling in one's own small corner and be found faithful when He returns.

the last child · Nov 5, 2019

AvisG said:
I chose the title of the thread simply as a tie-in with the clip from Network, which is surely one of the great moments in cinematic history. I don't think I'm "angry" at all. As Elvis Costello sang, "I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused." I'm still somewhat at the disgusted and dismayed end of things, but I do try to be amused and wonder what Jesus thinks about the utter nonsense He has wrought. You seem to be in the camp of those who think I am talking about "things that are wrong" with Christianity, in which case what you say might be pertinent. I am talking about a "Christianity" that I do not believe is Christianity AT ALL, at least if Christianity is to be understood as resembling anything Jesus had in mind. The "positive" that I believe could be accomplished with "Christianity" is to admit that it is not Christianity AT ALL, tear it down, and start over.

interesting...so you want to redefine the institution that claims to be Christianity, the same one that you are so angry but not angry with and wish to leave. I’m curious to know on what objective grounds do you believe that your interpretation of Christianity is better than the established institution? And who, other than yourself, has given you the accredidation to objectively know and judge said institution in contrast to your own draft? I’m asking not to be facetious, but because honestly, you are judging as if you are on a higher plane of knowledge, and I’m curious as to where or how you feel or know you obtained this knowledge.

AvisG · Nov 5, 2019

2PhiloVoid said:
AvisG, I think we can all say that there are and have been individual expressions of the Christian faith, along with more corporate ones, which seem to run afoul of personalized agendas and assorted corruptions that don't reflect the glory of Christ. At the same time, we might want to be careful about blacklisting the entirety of folks who we thing represent some level of church failure. It might also help your case if you don't shake a stick at what seems to be a rather vague notion of "Christianity" upon which to intensely beat.

I can understand some of your wish to rant against what you see as a corruption in the Church(es), even perhaps one that extends all the way back in some ways to Constantine, a notion that seems to be shared to some extend, even if not identically by Howard Vos (1994, pp. 49-50). But even if there have been some shortcomings in various locales among the various Christian groups and movements through the centuries, it might be a bit too caustic to just claim that "all this Christian stuff" isn't really "Christian stuff," which isn't to say that you're wrong wholesale in your OP stance, but you might be stretching the whole 'apostasy' trope just a bit beyond biblical bounds.

Sure, like Good Fruit Inspectors, we all should be wary and inspect the fruit of this or that supposedly fellow Christian group (...Westboro, anybody?), but at the same time, being that people are people, imperfect and seeing the Truth of Christ through a glass darkly, we might want to make sure some level of charity is displayed by ourselves, among ourselves, as we existentially walk each day into the future and encounter others who 'claim' the mantle of Christian.

Reference
Vos, Howard F. (1994). Introduction to church history. Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers.

Well, I simply disagree. I've seen enough over my 48-year association with "Christianity" to reach the conclusion that I have reached. It's not a matter of whether there are pockets of Christ-likeness and do-goodness within "Christianity." There are pockets of Christ-likeness and do-goodness within Buddhism, Islam, atheism, Scientology, Walmart and everywhere else that humans are found. In my experience and observation, there is no more or less of this within "Christianity" than anywhere else, which is not what we would expect to find in a community uniquely indwelt by the Holy Spirit and in the process of sanctification. Nor is there any less worship of money, fame and sex, which is likewise not what we would expect to find. I've known a comparative handful of people in my life who truly seemed to have a Christ-like spirit and to lead Christ-like lives (I'm not one of them, by a long shot); maybe half of them claimed any association with Christianity, the rest did not.

There is a consistent misunderstanding here that I am squawking about "What I think is wrong with Christianity." This is a straw man and invites the sort of responses that I am getting - the predictable "You need to pray for others, focus on the good that is done, be more tolerant of human failings, not be so angry, try to reform things from within, etc., etc."

I am not talking about "What I think is wrong with Christianity." I am saying "I do not believe that the religion that calls itself Christianity has anything whatsoever to do with what Jesus was talking about, period. I don't think it's fulfilling the Great Commission, period." Jesus was talking about such a radical transformation in individual human lives and society as a whole that "Christianity" isn't even on the radar screen. To repeat myself, it's a complete perversion of what Jesus was talking about.

This is my perspective. Your mileage may vary. I would not expect those who are neck-deep in "Christianity" to agree with me. My perspective is not unlike that of Kierkegaard, who looked at the official state "Christianity" of his native Denmark and asked "Is it even POSSIBLE for someone to become a Christian in a 'Christian' land such as this?"

To quote Forrest Gump, which my wife and I happen to have watched only yesterday, "That's all I have to say about that."

charsan · Nov 5, 2019

dzheremi said:
Ho hum. Another thread about how "Christianity is so corrupted", "The problem with the Church", "Let's get back to _____", "I love Jesus, but hate Religion", etc. Must be a day ending in y.

Agreed, it is quite silly and tiring to see people who think they know better when they no next to nothing at all.

Dave G. · Nov 5, 2019

the last child said:
I’m sorry guys I am new to this forum and I just realized I was writing in the wrong box. It is a little confusing bc when I hit the reply button it takes me to the box that I was typing in, so I assumed that was where I was supposed to type my response. This isn’t clearest interface

You might get used to it eventually lol !!! It's fine but just to let you know, if you started to quote someone, changed your mind backed out and quote someone else you will get both quotes, just highlight what you don't want and hit backspace. And you need to type in the space below the quote. Sometimes what I do is just make a new reply in the window at the bottom of the page, then copy paste one line from someones message if wanted and put quote brackets on the line.

I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Active Member

Dynamic UNO

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Of course, it's all ...about the Son!

This. this is my right eye—no left eye. sorry. Lol

Of course, it's all ...about the Son!

Psalm 144:1

He’s a Way of life

Psalm 144:1

This. this is my right eye—no left eye. sorry. Lol

Living in Reality

Charismatic Episcopal Church

Well-Known Member

This. this is my right eye—no left eye. sorry. Lol

Active Member

Charismatic Episcopal Church

Well-Known Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency