I'm improper, gravely deficient, and defective

[Redwolf]

According to the Catholic church.

My personal relationship with Christ notwithstanding, nor His assurance that He is my Saviour if I avail myself of His sacrifice and atonement for my sins, the church says I'm no good.
http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/john/john10.htm
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica] The current views of the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) concerning other Christian denominations and other religions are explained in a Vatican declaration Dominus Iesus. According to the Times News Service, the statement implies that "Churches such as the Church of England, where the apostolic succession of bishops from the time of St. Peter is disputed by Rome, and churches without bishops, are not considered 'proper' churches." They suffer from "defects." [/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Religions other than Christianity are considered to be "gravely deficient." Their rituals can constitute "an obstacle to salvation" for their followers. 1,2 [/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Archbishop Tarcisio Bertone, secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faithsaid that the document was infallible since it was "explicitly approved and confirmed by the pope." The pope had said that it was "his will that what it contains be believed by all the church." 6[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Since the Church teaches that a very lengthy interval in Purgatory or an eternity in Hell awaits the unsaved, the adverse consequences of an individual following another religion (or a Christian denomination other than the RCC) are severe -- perhaps infinite infinite in nature.[/FONT]


[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Cardinal Ratzinger describes the status of non-Christian religions:
[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]The Church of Christ is the instrument by which all humans are saved.[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Salvation is accessible to those who are not members of the "Church" -- (i.e. not Roman Catholics or Eastern Orthodox Christians). It comes through grace which originates with Christ and "enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation."[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]The prayers and rituals of other religions may help or hinder their believers. Some practices may prepare their membership to absorb the Gospel. However, those rituals which "depend on superstitions or other errors... constitute an obstacle to salvation."[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Members of other religions are "gravely deficient" relative to members of the Church of Christ who already have "the fullness of the means of salvation." [/FONT]

So, all you have to do to be saved is belong to the Catholic church.


John 10:16
I have other sheep 7 that do not belong to this fold. These also I must lead, and they will hear my voice, and there will be one flock, one shepherd.

Jesus has sheep everywhere. I notice He does not call them gravely deficient, defective, or improper.

My question to Catholics.........how do you square it? Doesn't it make you just a wee bit hesitant to accept and further such decrees?

 

[The Prokeimenon!]

What does your church say about Catholics?

Rdr Moses

 

[Redwolf]

What does your church say about Catholics?

Rdr Moses

Start a thread on that subject, and I'll tell you.

 

[jckstraw72]

actually all that says is that your CHURCH has certain defects, which you obviously believe (much more harshly though) about the Catholic Church.

have you ever started a thread that wasnt Catholic bashing?

 

[woobadooba]

actually all that says is that your CHURCH has certain defects, which you obviously believe (much more harshly though) about the Catholic Church.

have you ever started a thread that wasnt Catholic bashing?

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that the purpose of the thread is to bash Catholics.

He has a legitimate question here. And I feel that it ought to be addressed in a legitimate manner.

We shouldn't be fearful of those who question our faith.

 

[Redwolf]

actually all that says is that your CHURCH has certain defects, which you obviously believe (much more harshly though) about the Catholic Church.

have you ever started a thread that wasnt Catholic bashing?

I believe the Catholic church has no right to condemn me and my decision not to be a Catholic. If this is bashing the Catholic church, then I'd like to know what being called deficient, defective, and improper are.
Snooky yookums love notes?

 

[woobadooba]

I believe the Catholic church has no right to condemn me and my decision not to be a Catholic. If this is bashing the Catholic church, then I'd like to know what being called deficient, defective, and improper are.

But does it really suggest that you are deficient?


Here is what it says...


"Religions other than Christianity are considered to be "gravely deficient."

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"Members of other religions are "gravely deficient" relative to members of the Church of Christ who already have "the fullness of the means of salvation."[/FONT]

 

[Redwolf]

But does it really suggest that you are deficient?


Here is what it says...


"Religions other than Christianity are considered to be "gravely deficient."

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"Members of other religions are "gravely deficient" relative to members of the Church of Christ who already have "the fullness of the means of salvation."[/FONT]

Church of Christ cleverly disguises RCC. I'm a member of a religion other than RCC and, therefore, gravely deficient.

64. If the Catholic Church is to lead all men to eternal salvation, and has, for that purpose, received from Christ her doctrine, her means of grace, and her powers, what, for his part, is every one obliged to do?
Every one is obliged, under pain of eternal damnation, to become a member of the Catholic Church, to believe her doctrine, to use her means of grace, and to submit to her authority.

​

Source: Deharbe's Catechism, translated by Rev. John Fander, published by Schwartz, Kirwin & Fauss, 53 Park Place, New York, Sixth American Edition, Copyright 1912, 1919, 1924, page 148.

 

[mesue]

According to the Catholic church.

My personal relationship with Christ notwithstanding, nor His assurance that He is my Saviour if I avail myself of His sacrifice and atonement for my sins, the church says I'm no good.
http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/john/john10.htm
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]The current views of the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) concerning other Christian denominations and other religions are explained in a Vatican declaration Dominus Iesus. According to the Times News Service, the statement implies that "Churches such as the Church of England, where the apostolic succession of bishops from the time of St. Peter is disputed by Rome, and churches without bishops, are not considered 'proper' churches." They suffer from "defects." [/FONT][FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Religions other than Christianity are considered to be "gravely deficient." Their rituals can constitute "an obstacle to salvation" for their followers. 1,2 [/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Archbishop Tarcisio Bertone, secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faithsaid that the document was infallible since it was "explicitly approved and confirmed by the pope." The pope had said that it was "his will that what it contains be believed by all the church." 6[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Since the Church teaches that a very lengthy interval in Purgatory or an eternity in Hell awaits the unsaved, the adverse consequences of an individual following another religion (or a Christian denomination other than the RCC) are severe -- perhaps infinite infinite in nature.[/FONT]


[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Cardinal Ratzinger describes the status of non-Christian religions:
[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]The Church of Christ is the instrument by which all humans are saved.[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Salvation is accessible to those who are not members of the "Church" -- (i.e. not Roman Catholics or Eastern Orthodox Christians). It comes through grace which originates with Christ and "enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation."[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]The prayers and rituals of other religions may help or hinder their believers. Some practices may prepare their membership to absorb the Gospel. However, those rituals which "depend on superstitions or other errors... constitute an obstacle to salvation."[/FONT]

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Members of other religions are "gravely deficient" relative to members of the Church of Christ who already have "the fullness of the means of salvation." [/FONT]

So, all you have to do to be saved is belong to the Catholic church.


John 10:16
I have other sheep 7 that do not belong to this fold. These also I must lead, and they will hear my voice, and there will be one flock, one shepherd.

Jesus has sheep everywhere. I notice He does not call them gravely deficient, defective, or improper.

My question to Catholics.........how do you square it? Doesn't it make you just a wee bit hesitant to accept and further such decrees?

Then I shall be as you, brother, gravely deficient, defective, or improper to the glory of God.

 

[CaDan]

What's the question?

 

[CaDan]

What does your church say about Catholics?

Rdr Moses

Do you think his church knows that Orthodoxy even exists?

 

[mesue]

Do you think his church knows that Orthodoxy even exists?

You go to his church that you can say this?

 

[The Prokeimenon!]

Do you think his church knows that Orthodoxy even exists?

Start a thread about it and he'll tell you

 

[woobadooba]

What's the question?

The question that he asked is:

My question to Catholics.........how do you square it? Doesn't it make you just a wee bit hesitant to accept and further such decrees?

 

[woobadooba]

Church of Christ cleverly disguises RCC. I'm a member of a religion other than RCC and, therefore, gravely deficient.

64. If the Catholic Church is to lead all men to eternal salvation, and has, for that purpose, received from Christ her doctrine, her means of grace, and her powers, what, for his part, is every one obliged to do?
Every one is obliged, under pain of eternal damnation, to become a member of the Catholic Church, to believe her doctrine, to use her means of grace, and to submit to her authority.


​

Source: Deharbe's Catechism, translated by Rev. John Fander, published by Schwartz, Kirwin & Fauss, 53 Park Place, New York, Sixth American Edition, Copyright 1912, 1919, 1924, page 148.

Yes, you do have a valid point here.

 

[CaDan]

The question that he asked is:

Yeah, I saw the words.

But I don't understand the context. Square what?

 

[CaDan]

You go to his church that you can say this?

Uh, no.

I just find it entertaining that my Eastern brethren seem to be the ones doing most of the heavy lifting in this storm of "slag on the Catholics" threads.

I find it entertaining in general that there is a huge body of anti-Catholic literature published over the last two centuries in the United States that seems to completely ignore Orthodoxy.

 

[Jipsah]

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that the purpose of the thread is to bash Catholics.

Yeah, it could actually be about nuclear proliferation.

But it isn't.

 

[Jipsah]

I believe the Catholic church has no right to condemn me and my decision not to be a Catholic.

Then you're obviously wrong, because they've done it and haven't been prosecuted for it. They have as much right to bash your church as you have to bash theirs. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, right?

 

[ThePilgrim]

The Catholic Church believes that it's the Church founded by Christ and that it has preserved the fulness of the Truth. Coming from that prespective, what would you expect them to say?

It's like what a friend of mine said when Benedict was elected pope and people got upset about what he believed in, all of which were the traditional Catholic stances: "Basically, people are upset because the pope is a Catholic."

The same applies in this case