I'm having an issue I can't discuss with my Priest.

[kamikat]

I think only the former Catholics can understand this one. It concerns married clergy. As a liberal Catholic, I used to think that having married clergy could help eleviate the lack of vocations and might help with the pedophelia problems. However, now that I am somewhere with married clergy, I'm not so comfortable with it. It kinda weirds me out to hear my priest talk about his family and it unnerves me to see he give communion to his wife. I'm not sure why. Also, I noticed at the Pascha feast, how hard a life it must be for the family. One the biggest night on the year, his wife and kids were sitting a table to themselves, while father "worked the room". Yes, I'm sure they spent the day together, but it just seemed kind of sad. Was this a problem for other former Catholics? How did you adjust to this difference between the churches? Thanks!

kamikat

BTW, the title should read "can't discuss with my priest"

 

[eoe]

Can you see how your position is irrelevant to the demons? They can and will attack you either way. Choose a and they tell you why you are wrong and b is better. Switch to b and you look back to a.

So long as they can disrupt you and your prayer life they do not care.

Sorry if that was offtopic.


Lord have mercy on Kamikat.

 

[kamikat]

Wow! I guess you're right. I didn't think about it that way.

kamikat

 

[OnTheWay]

In all fairness to the RCC the major issue with priest abuse has been with boys in the 12+ age range, which isn't pedophila, it's homosexual behavior. Allowing married clergy wouldn't do anything about that, getting homosexuals out of the clergy would.
The sole reason the RCC switched to celibate clergy only was legal battles over church property that was being willed to the heirs of clergy. There is nothing in Scripture or Tradition to support that practice.
As for the family, well one has to be either married or taken monastic vows to be ordained. As such the wife certainly was aware and made the choice to marry anyway. Whether one marries a cop, soldier, or a car salesman there are things that go along with it. You chose to accept them or not, and frankly I wouldn't think she feels sorry for herself so you shouldn't feel sorry for her either. She may have been sitting alone that night, but it wouldn't be an unrealistic wager to say that of the married couples sitting together there are a few (at least) that are in much worse martial situations.

 

[kamikat]

In all fairness to the RCC the major issue with priest abuse has been with boys in the 12+ age range, which isn't pedophila, it's homosexual behavior. Allowing married clergy wouldn't do anything about that, getting homosexuals out of the clergy would.

Getting homosexuals out of the clergy is only half the battle. There is a great lack of vocations, so they have been more willing to admit men who might not have been accepted in the past. By allowing married clergy, they would have a greater pool of candidates.

kamikat

 

[zhilan]

I can relate a bit too except that I used to be very against married priest. However, having now dealt with them, I think they can offer things that celebate priest cannot. Of course, the same is true visa-versa. Whether a priest is married or single gives him different prospectives and I dont think that one is necessarily better than the other.

However, I think actually this is something you -can- discuss with your priest. I don't think he'll be offended. I've actually talked with my priest about priest in the East being married. He explained to me that a lot of the Western view that celebacy is better comes from Augustine where in the west they got this idea that sex was bad and a result of our fallen nature whereas this idea is not at all part of the east's theology. There is nothing unholy about sex between a man and wife and so there is no reason a priest should not take part in that. I think if it's bothering you, you should definately talk to your priest!

 

[Monica child of God 1]

I can relate a bit too except that I used to be very against married priest. However, having now dealt with them, I think they can offer things that celebate priest cannot. Of course, the same is true visa-versa. Whether a priest is married or single gives him different prospectives and I dont think that one is necessarily better than the other.

And this is why we have both married and celibate clergy. Just because a seminarian may marry before ordination does not mean that all choose to. Many Orthodox priests feel called to celibate life (or rather, many celibate men feel called to the priesthood).

M.

 

[OnTheWay]

Getting homosexuals out of the clergy is only half the battle. There is a great lack of vocations, so they have been more willing to admit men who might not have been accepted in the past. By allowing married clergy, they would have a greater pool of candidates.

kamikat

I would have to say your logic is a bit faulty. In Poland for example there is absolutely no lack of priests. Whereas the primarly western Roman Church suffers such a lack. The issue is really one of western society increasingly becoming nominal Christians, or in the case of much of western Europe not Christian at all anymore. Opening the Roman clergy to married men wouldn't do much as that really isn't the problem in the west. It might help the US a bit, but in western Europe where the biggest shortages are simply allowing married clergy would produce little.
Looking at marriage itself in western Europe, certainly the divorce rates are somewhat lower than in the US and eastern Europe, however in western Europe the increasing trend is for people to simply not get married at all.
The western Church needs to re-evangelize it's parishes more than it needs to allow married clergy.

 

[ThePilgrim]

"As for the family, well one has to be either married or taken monastic vows to be ordained. "

That's actually not the case. Not all celibate priests are monastics.

 

[Rilian]

We had a marriage class in our parish recently that I think would have been a much different experience if it had not been led by a married priest. I also find pastorally and in confession I am much more comfortable with a married priest and feel I can relate to them in ways I could not with an Archimandrite.

I guess I'm also just used to our priest being married and having kids. It seems normal to me. Both our priest and his wife provide leadership in the church in different ways.

 

[gzt]

zhilan - You're unfairly maligning Augustine. Pace Ambrose, Jerome, and several other monastic writers before him, Augustine taught that sex and sexuality are part of the prelapsarian condition of humanity. Sex and reproduction are not a consequence of the Fall, but they have been altered by its occurrence. Because of this, he did not write treatises on virginity and the celibate life.

Ambrose and Jerome, on the other hand, taught that gender differentiation as it is known now is a consequence of the Fall and that, before the Fall, there would have been no sexual reproduction. Hence, those who live a celibate life are returning to a participation in a prelapsarian state. See their treatises on virginity and the celibate life for more details. Virginity and martyrdom are often paired in the hagiographies they wrote for this reason - virginity prepared them for martyrdom etc etc. Augustine, however, wrote some hagiographies of married woman martyrs.

So, uh, it's not Augustine you should be going after, zhilan, since he in fact supports the view you champion.

 

[choirfiend]

Boys 12+ are still boys. Thats pedophilia. Homosexual behavior would be easy to come by if someone wanted to search it out. Non-consenting children are a whole other thing, and it's definitely pedophilia.

 

[OnTheWay]

"As for the family, well one has to be either married or taken monastic vows to be ordained. "

That's actually not the case. Not all celibate priests are monastics.

One either has to be married or to have taken monastic vows to be ordained. The fact that a widower is allowed to continue being a celibate priest without taking monastic vows is rather silly hair spliting. They certainly cannot remarry so for all intensive purposes they are monastics themselves.

 

[Matrona]

One either has to be married or to have taken monastic vows to be ordained. The fact that a widower is allowed to continue being a celibate priest without taking monastic vows is rather silly hair spliting.

It most certainly is not. A man can be ordained a priest without having taken monastic vows. He can't get married without being defrocked, but he's not a monk either.

IIRC, my bishop (ANTOUN) was never a monastic and he was never married, either. He's always just been an unmarried deacon/priest/bishop.

They certainly cannot remarry so for all intensive purposes they are monastics themselves.

1. You mean, "for all intents and purposes", not "intensive purposes".

2. There is much more to monastic vows than celibacy!

 

[gzt]

perhaps he does mean "intensive purposes". priests are pretty intense and have to do intense things all the time. perhaps for all the intensive purposes, he is a monk, but for the rest, he just hasn't been made one. YOU NEVER KNOW.

but it certainly isn't normal.

 

[Monica child of God 1]

Two of the priests at my church were never married but have not taken monastic vows.

M.

 

[Monica child of God 1]

2. There is much more to monastic vows than celibacy!

Very true.

M.

 

[Matrona]

perhaps for all the intensive purposes, he is a monk, but for the rest, he just hasn't been made one.

"I'm not a monk, but I play one on TV"

 

[nicodemus]

I think only the former Catholics can understand this one. It concerns married clergy. As a liberal Catholic, I used to think that having married clergy could help eleviate the lack of vocations and might help with the pedophelia problems. However, now that I am somewhere with married clergy, I'm not so comfortable with it. It kinda weirds me out to hear my priest talk about his family and it unnerves me to see he give communion to his wife. I'm not sure why. Also, I noticed at the Pascha feast, how hard a life it must be for the family. One the biggest night on the year, his wife and kids were sitting a table to themselves, while father "worked the room". Yes, I'm sure they spent the day together, but it just seemed kind of sad. Was this a problem for other former Catholics? How did you adjust to this difference between the churches? Thanks!

Orthodox priests must have the consent of their wives before they are ordained so the priests' wives more or less know what they're "getting into."

 

[OnTheWay]

It most certainly is not. A man can be ordained a priest without having taken monastic vows. He can't get married without being defrocked, but he's not a monk either.

Thanks for your opinion.