I'm Grafted In, yes?!

[pat34lee]

Your quote states emphatically that Ruth converted and was adopted into Israel. Just like I told you.

And then I also told you that this is not the case with the Hebrew Roots folks. They have never asked for it from Israel, nor ever received it.

Sorry, but it's not up to the Jews, since Israel isn't back in place yet.
And it won't be Israel's choice either. They are both branches, not
the root or the trunk, and must be regrafted, just as we are grafted in.

 

[pat34lee]

The did not ask Israel if they could become the People of Israel. Nor did Israel accept them.

What they've done is the equivalent of entering a family's home without invitation, announced their cousins, raid the refrigerator, take over the TV remote, and go to sleep in various beds. All without asking if they could become members of the family.

The only ones whose opinion counts in an adoption are the parents
and the adoptee. The foster brothers and sisters don't have a say in the matter.
God chose Isreael, and he, through Yeshua, chooses who to graft in.

 

[Meowzltov]

The only ones whose opinion counts in an adoption are the parents
and the adoptee. The foster brothers and sisters don't have a say in the matter.
God chose Isreael, and he, through Yeshua, chooses who to graft in.

The adoptive parents are Abraham and Sarah, who are no longer with us. Thus "the family" is represented by the brothers, sisters, and miscellaneous cousins.

 

[Meowzltov]

Sorry, but it's not up to the Jews, since Israel isn't back in place yet.

I'm not sure what you mean. Israel is first of all, exactly where Hashem wants her to be. Second, it looks to me like Hashem wants Israel to be in Israel and the US.

 

[1John2:4]

I'm not sure what you mean. Israel is first of all, exactly where Hashem wants her to be. Second, it looks to me like Hashem wants Israel to be in Israel and the US.

But Jacob, Israel is hier of the promise.

 

[Meowzltov]

But Jacob, Israel is hier of the promise.

It depends on what promise you mean. There is the promised land, given to Abraham and his descendants through Isaac and Jacob without condition. There is the promise to live on the Land, which is conditional on keeping the commandments. Then there is the promise of eternal life, which is by grace through faith (an authentic faith, not a dead faith alone). THAT is the New Covenant, not the Mosaic Covenant. It is a promise given to all mankind through the Church, not to Israel.

We've deviated significantly from our conversation. Can you scroll back and answer my question about what do you mean?

 

[1John2:4]

It depends on what promise you mean. There is the promised land, given to Abraham and his descendants through Isaac and Jacob without condition. There is the promise to live on the Land, which is conditional on keeping the commandments. Then there is the promise of eternal life, which is by grace through faith (an authentic faith, not a dead faith alone). THAT is the New Covenant, not the Mosaic Covenant. It is a promise given to all mankind through the Church, not to Israel.

We've deviated significantly from our conversation. Can you scroll back and answer my question about what do you mean?

Had to edit this post sorry if it causes confusion.

I re read your reply and I am wondering about the statement the new Covenant is for the church and the land Covenant is for Israel. Is the Messiah for Israel, I thought He came for the lost sheep of the House of Israel? I thought Jerimiah 31 31 is for Judah and Israel?

 

[Meowzltov]

Had to edit this post sorry if it causes confusion.

I re read your reply and I am wondering about the statement the new Covenant is for the church and the land Covenant is for Israel. Is the Messiah for Israel, I thought He came for the lost sheep of the House of Israel? I thought Jerimiah 31 31 is for Judah and Israel?

Really good questions!

The atoning death of the Messiah is for All the World, through the Church. Technically that includes the Children of Israel, but remember that God is withholding the Gospel from them, with the exception of a Remnant, for the sake of the Gentiles.

When Jesus was on earth, however, he did not minister to the whole world. He only talked to Jewish sinners, aka the lost sheep of Israel. Even his disciples were told to avoid the Samaritans and Gentiles. It was only after his death that this changed and he told his disciples to go unto all the world.

Jeremiah 31 is the millenial age, when the Messiah rules as a King. It has not yet come to pass. In that age, everyone shall know God--no one shall have to be taught. Is that true right now? Of course not. In THAT age, the fullness of the Gentiles will have come in. THEN God will make a New Covenant with Israel.

 

[pat34lee]

I'm not sure what you mean. Israel is first of all, exactly where Hashem wants her to be. Second, it looks to me like Hashem wants Israel to be in Israel and the US.

And only God knows where the northern kingdom is today.
They were lost in a way that Judah never was, and totally
assimilated into the nations.

And Judah as a group was never the lost sheep. At that time,
many of the tribes of Ephraim were still known in the lands around
the nation of Israel. They were the lost sheep and the prodigal son.

 

[Meowzltov]

And only God knows where the northern kingdom is today.
They were lost in a way that Judah never was, and totally
assimilated into the nations.

And Judah as a group was never the lost sheep. At that time,
many of the tribes of Ephraim were still known in the lands around
the nation of Israel. They were the lost sheep and the prodigal son.

I'm not worried about the House of Israel. God will have them found in His time.

It is amazing to me that as many of them have been found as have been -- in African and Southeast Asia... I have a good friend at synagogue with the last name of Ephramovitch, which means son of Ephraim. His extended family lived with a tribe of Gypsies in Russia, but they never adopted the religion of the Gypsies. They always read the Torah and Psalms, ate kosher, and kept Sabbath. When my friend's family immigrated to the States, he wanted to join with Israel as a whole, and brought himself in line with Judaism. He had to study as a convert, but what he did wasn't what you would call a conversion, since he was already a son of Israel.

 

[pat34lee]

I'm not worried about the House of Israel. God will have them found in His time.

It is amazing to me that as many of them have been found as have been -- in African and Southeast Asia... I have a good friend at synagogue with the last name of Ephramovitch, which means son of Ephraim. His extended family lived with a tribe of Gypsies in Russia, but they never adopted the religion of the Gypsies. They always read the Torah and Psalms, ate kosher, and kept Sabbath. When my friend's family immigrated to the States, he wanted to join with Israel as a whole, and brought himself in line with Judaism. He had to study as a convert, but what he did wasn't what you would call a conversion, since he was already a son of Israel.

I consider it conversion, as they had no place for Rabbis or Oral law before.
African Jews who made aliyah to Israel were treated similarly.

 

[1John2:4]

Really good questions!

The atoning death of the Messiah is for All the World, through the Church. Technically that includes the Children of Israel, but remember that God is withholding the Gospel from them, with the exception of a Remnant, for the sake of the Gentiles.

When Jesus was on earth, however, he did not minister to the whole world. He only talked to Jewish sinners, aka the lost sheep of Israel. Even his disciples were told to avoid the Samaritans and Gentiles. It was only after his death that this changed and he told his disciples to go unto all the world.

Jeremiah 31 is the millenial age, when the Messiah rules as a King. It has not yet come to pass. In that age, everyone shall know God--no one shall have to be taught. Is that true right now? Of course not. In THAT age, the fullness of the Gentiles will have come in. THEN God will make a New Covenant with Israel.

thanks for your replies if you don't mind I have a a few more questions.

So if you accept the blood of the lamb you are not yet in the new Covenant? Does He die again to make the new Covenant?

What about Isaiah 56?

 

[Meowzltov]

thanks for your replies if you don't mind I have a a few more questions.

So if you accept the blood of the lamb you are not yet in the new Covenant? Does He die again to make the new Covenant?

What about Isaiah 56?

There is the New Covenant that we have in Christ. It is new compared to the Mosaic Covenant or the Davidic Covenant. But it is not the same New Covenant spoken of in Jeremiah 31. Now, Isaiah 56 speaks of the Messianic age, when the Messiah shall rule as King. Obviously those things are not true now. There are no burnt offerings, for example.

 

[Meowzltov]

I consider it conversion, as they had no place for Rabbis or Oral law before.
African Jews who made aliyah to Israel were treated similarly.

"Conversion" is much more than accepting Rabbinical Judaism. The heart of it is becoming part of the Children of Israel. These of the lost tribes are already of the Children of Israel, so it is not really a conversion. It is similar, but not.

 

[1John2:4]

There is the New Covenant that we have in Christ. It is new compared to the Mosaic Covenant or the Davidic Covenant. But it is not the same New Covenant spoken of in Jeremiah 31. Now, Isaiah 56 speaks of the Messianic age, when the Messiah shall rule as King. Obviously those things are not true now. There are no burnt offerings, for example.

So what Covenant is now?

 

[Meowzltov]

So what Covenant is now?

ALL the preceding covenants:
Adamic
Noahide
Abraham
Mosaic
Davidic
New Covenant

 

[1John2:4]

ALL the preceding covenants:
Adamic
Noahide
Abraham
Mosaic
Davidic
New Covenant

So the covenant now is the Davidic or the New Covenent? I'm sorry I am just trying to understand Covenant thology a little better this is something that i am a little confused about. I appreciate your help.

 

[1John2:4]

I consider it conversion, as they had no place for Rabbis or Oral law before.
African Jews who made aliyah to Israel were treated similarly.

Are these folks from Africa and Asia going into Rabbinical Judism or Messianic?

 

[visionary]

thanks for your replies if you don't mind I have a a few more questions.

So if you accept the blood of the lamb you are not yet in the new Covenant? Does He die again to make the new Covenant?

What about Isaiah 56?

Each covenant layer is a step in understanding more fully, and never are they repeated in process. We have Yeshua fulfilling the springs feasts of the covenant, fulfilling the sin sacrifice of the old covenant, and fulfilling currently the position of High Priest in the Heavenly Sanctuary. He will be fulfilling the fall feasts and the position of King of Kings, Lord of Lords in eternity but He will not repeat the sacrifice of self for sin again. This earth was baptised with water, but will be baptised by fire, and so shall the believers in their experiences with God. Each is a step by step process of cleansing, renewing, and revitalizing.

 

[1John2:4]

Each covenant layer is a step in understanding more fully, and never are they repeated in process. We have Yeshua fulfilling the springs feasts of the covenant, fulfilling the sin sacrifice of the old covenant, and fulfilling currently the position of High Priest in the Heavenly Sanctuary. He will be fulfilling the fall feasts and the position of King of Kings, Lord of Lords in eternity but He will not repeat the sacrifice of self for sin again. This earth was baptised with water, but will be baptised by fire, and so shall the believers in their experiences with God. Each is a step by step process of cleansing, renewing, and revitalizing.

Vis- thanks so much for your help. What about Jerimiah 31, are we all in the new Covenant yet when we accept Messiah or does that come after His second return, or are the Gentiles in now and until they have fully come in does natural branches of Israel come in?