I'm back

[Berserk]

One of my Harvard professors, Dieter Georgi, was drafted into the Hitler Youth movement in 1945 at age 15. His last assignment was to dig corpses out of the rubble after our fire-bombing of Dresden. He wrote a book on Dresden and used to say, "Hitler's greatest achievement was his ability to seduce the Allies into stooping to his own low level of degradation." One of the first corpses he dug out of the rubble of a Dresden house was his Jewish Latin teacher, who had escaped detection by the Nazis. Dieter also used to say something I appreciated, "You are not only entitled to your own opinion; you are obligated to it." Too many evangelicals dwell in a sheltered theological Ghetto and their whole identity is based on defending that identity. I wish instead that believers would always respond to the question, "Which denominational position do you embrace?" by saying "None, ultimately, so we need to discuss specific issues if you want to learn my perspectives."

 

[John Owen]

I find one of the biggest problem on the forums is how many there are who assume to teach the true oracles of God yet are way too under-qualified. Someone actually over-qualified amounts to a refreshing change of pace IMO, Lol.

I generally don't say anything about my qualifications. It always sounds like pride.

 

[Carl Emerson]

@Berserk Do you mind sharing which modern theologians you most relate to?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Too many evangelicals dwell in a sheltered theological Ghetto and their whole identity is based on defending that identity. I wish instead that believers would always respond to the question, "Which denominational position do you embrace?" by saying "None, ultimately, so we need to discuss specific issues if you want to learn my perspectives."

I fully agree. So many that I discuss things with appear to be there just to defend a particular doctrine rather than actually think things over and discuss things together from a student's perspective. I can tell because of the silence I'll often get when I present them with a question they can't answer. Instead of following the conversation out, they fall silent, which tells me it's not a real search for the truth. To most it is simply a debate, and they are dead set on their position either way.

I always chuckle when someone assumes I've gotten my doctrines from some denomination, or some teacher or church in particular. I'll usually respond with, "Please. Tell me more..." Lol. But you're right, not many are actually on the forums to learn and discuss. Most are too consumed with saving face or making some sort of impression with themselves, or "defending the faith." And they're usually under-qualified, unfortunately.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I generally don't say anything about my qualifications. It always sounds like pride.

I stopped caring what people think a long time ago, whether it sounds like pride or not. The righteous judge justly, but the unjust are always condemning people for something anyway, so what's the point in worrying about it.

 

[Berserk]

@Berserk Do you mind sharing which modern theologians you most relate to?

Let me answer you this way. When I went to seminary, I wanted to learn how to be an effective apologist. So I initially thought I should specialize in Philosophy of Religion and Systematic Theology. But as I studied in seminary, I soon realized that most evangelical apologists are not familiar enough with modern biblical scholarship and, for that reason, are not taken seriously by the best Bible scholars. That's when I realized I needed to specialize in Scripture with a primary concentration on New Testament, Judaism, and Greco-Roman backgrounds. Generally, the best NT scholarship is found in academic journals rather than books because these journals generally go into greater depth and consider more alternative interpretations than scholarly books. So I'd advise new seminarians to research topic titles in these journals as a primary basis for research papers.

If I were dealing with a new Christian, I'd probably recommend he immerse himself in C. S. Lewis's books, not for their depth, but for their clarity and well-written style. My primary advice to new seminarians is to visit the campus prior to admission and rely more on student feedback than admissions and professorial advice. I say this because some of the most prolific Bible scholars spend all their time in research for books and articles and seem to regard course teaching as a necessary evil. You will hear that only from students.

I initially attended Fuller Seminary in Pasadena because I'd heard it was the best evangelical seminary. I soon became disillusioned (1) because my burning doubts and questions encountered hostility from fellow students and faculty and (2) because there was too much busy work. Afte a year at Fuller, I transferred to Princeton because I knew I'd get to take courses requiring research papers that gave me the chance to go into greater depth on my issues and to write a 150 page research thesis on a cutting edge issue. I also found the evangelical students at Princeton to be more mature and eager to discuss and explore biblical issues in original ways than their Fuller counterparts. I had a couple of spectacular spiritual experiences at Princeton, which I may share in a thread on the role of spiritual gifts in my faith journey.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Let me answer you this way. When I went to seminary, I wanted to learn how to be an effective apologist. So I initially thought I should specialize in Philosophy of Religion and Systematic Theology. But as I studied in seminary, I soon realized that most evangelical apologists are not familiar enough with modern biblical scholarship and, for that reason, are not taken seriously by the best Bible scholars. That's when I realized I needed to specialize in Scripture with a primary concentration on New Testament, Judaism, and Greco-Roman backgrounds. Generally, the best NT scholarship is found in academic journals rather than books because these journals generally go into greater depth and consider more alternative interpretations than scholarly books. So I'd advise new seminarians to research topic titles in these journals as a primary basis for research papers.

If I were dealing with a new Christian, I'd probably recommend he immerse himself in C. S. Lewis's books, not for their depth, but for their clarity and well-written style. My primary advice to new seminarians is to visit the campus prior to admission and rely more on student feedback than admissions and professorial advice. I say this because some of the most prolific Bible scholars spend all their time in research for books and articles and seem to regard course teaching as a necessary evil. You will hear that only from students.

I initially attended Fuller Seminary in Pasadena because I'd heard it was the best evangelical seminary. I soon became disillusioned (1) because my burning doubts and questions encountered hostility from fellow students and faculty and (2) because there was too much busy work. Afte a year at Fuller, I transferred to Princeton because I knew I'd get to take courses requiring research papers that gave me the chance to go into greater depth on my issues and to write a 150 page research thesis on a cutting edge issue. I also found the evangelical students at Princeton to be more mature and eager to discuss and explore biblical issues in original ways than their Fuller counterparts. I had a couple of spectacular spiritual experiences at Princeton, which I may share in a thread on the role of spiritual gifts in my faith journey.

I appreciate the time you have taken to fill us in on these interesting details.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Generally, the best NT scholarship is found in academic journals rather than books because these journals generally go into greater depth and consider more alternative interpretations than scholarly books.

I noticed this as well. For a time I subscribed to Bible Review, and found some of the articles pretty substantive. But I couldn't really afford to maintain it so I let it go unfortunately and stuck to just buying commentaries. There's no seminary near here either, but I suppose I could have things transferred to my local secular University if I had to.

Any other Journals you can recommend available for home subscription?

 

[David's Harp]

Oopsie. Got Universalism and Unitarianism confused by accident. Not sure how much Universalism is taught now days, but if you establish the danger of the teaching and how much it is growing, I might be interested in a read through.

I have definitely noticed a lot of threads in the Controversial Christian Theology section relating to Universalism, and so I'd be interested to hear the OP's discussion on this:

(7) The biblical arguments for and against universalism

 

[Michie]

Welcome back!

 

[tampasteve]

Would the Mods tolerate such a thread, give their closure of the last thread on this topic?

Yes, so long as it is made in the correct forum, the Controversial Christian Theology forum, follows the Statement of Purpose for that forum, and that it follows the Statement of Faith for the forums at large.

 

[Brad D.]

I'm back after an absence of several years. I grew up in a large Pentecostal church in Canada for my first 21 years. Then after my undergraduate degree, I got my MDiv from Princeton and my doctorate at Harvard in New Testament and Judaism. I was a Teaching Fellow at Harvard in New Testament and Classics. Then I became a Theology professor for 12 years at a Catholic university. Then I became a United Methodist minister from 1994 -2015, when I retired.
I'm interested in posting anywhere here, but must confess I need clarification on some questions.
(1) My greatest interest is the biblical basis for spiritual experiences and the work of the Holy Spirit. But as an academic, my threads on the biblical grounding of this will be controversial. Given that, where should I post such threads?
(2) I tracked down "the Sign Gifts" through a mod post, but don't see it listed as a subforum in the main topic list. Where is it listed?
(3) Discussion of the sign gifts and the gifts of the Spirit in general can be controversial and thus invites debate. If I want to be polemical about Christian experiences, where might this best be posted?
(4) I will never knowingly start threads in the wrong section. Will mods relocate misplaced threads in the correct section or simply delete them?
(5) As a former evangelical professor at a Catholic university, I'm interested in the best of Catholic spirituality and experiences and in how informed Catholics ground their distinctive beliefs and practices in Scripture. Where should I post such threads?
(6) what topics would the mods rather not be brought up on this site?

Welcome to CF! As for me I am always much more interested in what is one's heart than what might be hanging on their walls, so I probably won't be much good to you with the academia discussion side of Christianity, but I wish you well here and always enjoy conversations outside that range.

As to the scope of these discussions I would just say At the end of the day the only wisdom that any of us truly have that pertains to Christ is the Wisdom of the cross outlined in 1 Corinthians 1:18-25 . That is the best school I know to bring us onward into an ever deepening knowledge of Him. It seemed to be the one that counted to Him the most.

 

[Hidden In Him]

@Berserk.

No response on this one? Looks like I'm about to be checking out again, but it's for future reference. If anything, what ones in particular did you find yourself picking up the most from?

God bless, and hope you enjoy CF.
- H

I noticed this as well. For a time I subscribed to Bible Review, and found some of the articles pretty substantive. But I couldn't really afford to maintain it so I let it go unfortunately and stuck to just buying commentaries. There's no seminary near here either, but I suppose I could have things transferred to my local secular University if I had to.

Any other Journals you can recommend available for home subscription?

 

[David's Harp]

I can already tell that many site members here are more biblically informed and thoughtful than other Christian sites I've joined. But I'd appreciate your comments on the closure of the last recent thread on universalism. One universalist made several claims, but the thread was flawed by a failure to exegete the most important relevant texts and I see no good reason for its closure.

I was an unofficial advisor for a PhD thesis on (ultimately against) universalism and the topic raises interesting questions for evangelicals. For example, C. S. Lewis famously wrote, "The gates of Hell are locked from the inside." He meant that confinement to Hell is AND REMAINS the result of ungodly choices, and so, a penitent change of heart could theoretically lead to restoration out of Hell into God's kingdom. I'm not a universalist because I believe many sinners have developed a nature so disinterested and opposed to God and Christ that such a transformation would never occur. I'd like to start a thread sometime exploring all the NT texts that, I think, imply the theoretical possibility that C. S. Lewis had in mind. Would the Mods tolerate such a thread, give their closure of the last thread on this topic?

Hi Berserk, well I'm probably more thoughtful than biblically informed, but I'm trying to learn.
I'm not sure these particular threads have any satisfactory closure as such, especially when - as you quite rightly state - any supporting Scripture tends to lack greater context. To my eye, the greater weight of evidence appears to come from the non-universalist proponents.
I am interested in the topic as I would love to believe in a universalist theory (wouldn't everyone?), but I simply can't see it in the greater context.
Like Brad D. above, I won't be much use with academic discussion, but I'm sure it will be interesting and informative to have your knowledge and insight here.
Welcome back to the forum.

 

[sunshineforJesus]

Hi and welcome back.

 

[Siddhi Koli]

Welcome to CF!