I'm afraid...

[Supplanter]

So what you are saying is is that for some of us salvation is really a crap shoot
a gamble ..well i have to say thats all well and good if you dont fear that you have committed the unpardonable sin since it really wont matter would you be willing to trade places with us in hell if we loose ...I didnt think so ...

If its a gamble i dont want it ..

Not at all. Faith is not a gamble, but Caty struggles with OCD and I was trying to maybe give her a way to short circuit her irrational fear the she has committed the unforgivable (because she hasn't), through a logical approach to her saying that she was afraid to believe she was forgiven if she really wasn't. She refuses to believe that she is forgiven, though she has been told repeatedly, so what else is left than for her to just follow Christ anyway. Perhaps, it was not the best thing to say, so I apologize if it upset you.

There is no gambling about it. If you repent of your sins and surrender your life to Christ, then you are saved. Caty struggles to believe that she is forgiven, but nonetheless if she repents and surrenders to Christ, she will be saved and will be transformed by the power of Christ and realize that she has indeed received salvation.

The same goes for you. You have not committed an unpardonable sin. Period. And my precious brother, I would never want to see you in hell. I would rather take that punishement that let you have it even though I don't know you, but Christ has already done that work for both of us.

Hope this clarifies things.

 

[keryakos]

Not at all. Faith is not a gamble, but Caty struggles with OCD and I was trying to maybe give her a way to short circuit her irrational fear the she has committed the unforgivable (because she hasn't), through a logical approach to her saying that she was afraid to believe she was forgiven if she really wasn't. She refuses to believe that she is forgiven, though she has been told repeatedly, so what else is left than for her to just follow Christ anyway. Perhaps, it was not the best thing to say, so I apologize if it upset you.

There is no gambling about it. If you repent of your sins and surrender your life to Christ, then you are saved. Caty struggles to believe that she is forgiven, but nonetheless if she repents and surrenders to Christ, she will be saved and will be transformed by the power of Christ and realize that she has indeed received salvation.

The same goes for you. You have not committed an unpardonable sin. Period. And my precious brother, I would never want to see you in hell. I would rather take that punishement that let you have it even though I don't know you, but Christ has already done that work for both of us.

Hope this clarifies things.

i should not have responded that way its just im in so much torment i have ocd too and then there is what i have talked about on the other thread where im afraid of what i said deliberately 'thats what scares me the most ...sorry ..


Andy

 

[Supplanter]

i should not have responded that way its just im in so much torment i have ocd too and then there is what i have talked about on the other thread where im afraid of what i said deliberately 'thats what scares me the most ...sorry ..


Andy

It's ok Andy. I could sense your frustration. I know that it has to be terrible to deal with this. Have you read this whole thread? There are some very good things in it that could perhaps help. Feel free to PM me anytime if you need prayer or would like to chat.

And even if you said something deliberately, you are forgiven. I've said things to God in anger, deliberately. I've even told him to leave me alone and get away from me, more than once. Day after day. I use to tell him that if He loved me He would kill me, if He had any ounce of goodness He would kill me because I did not want to live. I cried to Him in hatred and anger. I don't have OCD and never did, but have my own trauma from life.

Nonetheless, I have been completely forgiven of those things. It is hard to understand, but our God's love, mercy, and grace for us is that consuming. It consumes all our sins, no matter what we have done.

 

[gratefulgrace]

I believe that faith in Christ only seems like a gamble on the other side of the door. We need to step through not knowing for sure what we are getting ourselves in for. However, once we have repented and believed and enter through the door of faith into relationship with our Lord Jesus, He is our Rock He will never lose us or let us go. Nothing in this life or beyond life can separate us from HIM>

Rom 8:38And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from his love. Death can't, and life can't. The angels can't, and the demons can't. Our fears for today, our worries about tomorrow, and even the powers of hell can't keep God's love away.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rom&c=8&v=38&t=NLT#dict/39
Rom 8:39Whether we are high above the sky or in the deepest ocean, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Arphaxad12]

Hi Caty,

This might sound a bit strange, but my daughter, a clinical psychologist, thinks that constructive activity like housework will do wonders for OCD.

She especially mentioned doing laundry. Even myself I know that accomplishing somerthing constructive always makes mr feel a whole lot better.

Myself, I'm thinking, gardening, even pulling weeds and working on the lawn and landscaping always does wonders for me. Have you ever considered starting a garden of some sort? Maybe planting flowers? Michelle Obama has started a "Victory Garden." I'm not sure why, but it really sounds like a lot of fun. Great to get organic veggies!

Anything that will occupy your mind constructively will keep it from taking off with you in a negative direction.

Best Blessings,
"Arph"
--------------
"Dogs call me by name"

 

[keryakos]

We each are given a choice and it is our individual decision what to do with that choice. If you feel like fear is the way to go then that is your choice and I think everyone here respects that as being so. I am inclined to disagree though. Faith though is not something you can know for a fact, otherwise it is not faith.

It's like sitting in a chair...if you believe the chair is going to break when you sit down in it, then due to that anticipation, you are not going to put your whole weight in the chair. Whereas if you have genuine faith that the chair is sturdy enough to hold you, you won't hesitate, you will just sit down in the chair, placing all of your weight in it without the feeling of anxiety.

If you still have anxiety then you need to practice sitting down and putting your full weight in the chair so it can sink in that it is not going to break when you sit down in it.

First of all what are you talking about ? Who said anything about true faith and fear . I was talking about the notion that says well well just trust Christ and if you have committed the unpardonable sin then you havent lost anything .. I was speaking against that .. I suggest you read more carefully or ask questions before you make suggestions about what someone else is saying ,,

But i respectfully disagree with your definition of faith

And its always funny to hear someone instruct you when they got the wrong end of the stick to begin with ,,,

 

[imperfectchristian]

First of all what are you talking about ? Who said anything about true faith and fear . I was talking about the notion that says well well just trust Christ and if you have committed the unpardonable sin then you havent lost anything .. I was speaking against that .. I suggest you read more carefully or ask questions before you make suggestions about what someone else is saying ,,

But i respectfully disagree with your definition of faith

And its always funny to hear someone instruct you when they got the wrong end of the stick to begin with ,,,

No offense keryakos, but I am very sure I have the right end of the stick. The God you and Caty are describing sounds more like something from greek mythology...like you might have crossed some invisible line and he now may be your eternal enemy.

That is a destorted and damaging view of God. God is not Zeus the god of war...God does not have a spilt personality and He does not hate you or despise you, and He has not forsaken you.

Here is a great video for you and Caty and yes it might make you feel good, but inifinitely more important than how it makes you feel is that it is the truth. The truth about your Father in heaven. He is not like an earthly father...some of them can be real monsters. He is perfect love and He lives in perfect light and life with Him is an invitation into relationship, not a checklist of moral duties...Jesus came that we might have life through Him and have it more abundantly, not just in heaven but right now.

Once you and Caty realize who your Father is and the expression of His love through Christ Jesus, then it will settle any and every concern you have.

Blessings!


YouTube - Father's Love Letter

 

[Jayangel81]

It's like sitting in a chair...if you believe the chair is going to break when you sit down in it, then due to that anticipation, you are not going to put your whole weight in the chair. Whereas if you have genuine faith that the chair is sturdy enough to hold you, you won't hesitate, you will just sit down in the chair, placing all of your weight in it without the feeling of anxiety.

If you still have anxiety then you need to practice sitting down and putting your full weight in the chair so it can sink in that it is not going to break when you sit down in it.

I personally have always enjoyed this illustration, it has always challenged me

 

[Caty]

I'm not meaning to sound mad or anything supplanter, but i hate hearing that--cause to me its just like, "oh well...i really odnt care and i'll be just fine if i trust God and go to Hell---I haven't lost a thing." but thats wrong because to me that wouldnt be very fair???

I got angry at God today and I regret it, i dont know why im like this and i never asked for it, all i wanted to do was coem to Him and look what happened. i get angry but i know thats probably the devil putting those types of thoughts in my head. but to me the reality is that ill NEVER know--just like you said, if im forgiven or not.

 

[imperfectchristian]

I'm not meaning to sound mad or anything supplanter, but i hate hearing that--cause to me its just like, "oh well...i really odnt care and i'll be just fine if i trust God and go to Hell---I haven't lost a thing." but thats wrong because to me that wouldnt be very fair???

I got angry at God today and I regret it, i dont know why im like this and i never asked for it, all i wanted to do was coem to Him and look what happened. i get angry but i know thats probably the devil putting those types of thoughts in my head. but to me the reality is that ill NEVER know--just like you said, if im forgiven or not.

Hey there sister...please watch the video I posted for you in post #187.

 

[keryakos]

I'm not meaning to sound mad or anything supplanter, but i hate hearing that--cause to me its just like, "oh well...i really odnt care and i'll be just fine if i trust God and go to Hell---I haven't lost a thing." but thats wrong because to me that wouldnt be very fair???

I got angry at God today and I regret it, i dont know why im like this and i never asked for it, all i wanted to do was coem to Him and look what happened. i get angry but i know thats probably the devil putting those types of thoughts in my head. but to me the reality is that ill NEVER know--just like you said, if im forgiven or not.

Hey Caty i understand your anger toward that way of thinking but i think in this case Supplanter wasnt thinking about how that would come across we all say things sometimes and wonder why we said them exactly that way ,
i really think in this case it was that ..

 

[keryakos]

No offense keryakos, but I am very sure I have the right end of the stick. The God you and Caty are describing sounds more like something from greek mythology...like you might have crossed some invisible line and he now may be your eternal enemy.

That is a destorted and damaging view of God. God is not Zeus the god of war...God does not have a spilt personality and He does not hate you or despise you, and He has not forsaken you.

Here is a great video for you and Caty and yes it might make you feel good, but inifinitely more important than how it makes you feel is that it is the truth. The truth about your Father in heaven. He is not like an earthly father...some of them can be real monsters. He is perfect love and He lives in perfect light and life with Him is an invitation into relationship, not a checklist of moral duties...Jesus came that we might have life through Him and have it more abundantly, not just in heaven but right now.

Once you and Caty realize who your Father is and the expression of His love through Christ Jesus, then it will settle any and every concern you have.

Blessings!


YouTube - Father's Love Letter

Im going to answer this and then im going to leave this alone because im not hear to debate or fight ..You make some valid points but i also see allot of arrogance in your posts now the only thing i find offensive is that ..now you can believe what you want but thank God you are not God and that is all i am going to say to you except God bless you ..

 

[Supplanter]

Not at all. Faith is not a gamble, but Caty struggles with OCD and I was trying to maybe give her a way to short circuit her irrational fear the she has committed the unforgivable (because she hasn't), through a logical approach to her saying that she was afraid to believe she was forgiven if she really wasn't. She refuses to believe that she is forgiven, though she has been told repeatedly, so what else is left than for her to just follow Christ anyway. Perhaps, it was not the best thing to say, so I apologize if it upset you.

There is no gambling about it. If you repent of your sins and surrender your life to Christ, then you are saved. Caty struggles to believe that she is forgiven, but nonetheless if she repents and surrenders to Christ, she will be saved and will be transformed by the power of Christ and realize that she has indeed received salvation.

The same goes for you. You have not committed an unpardonable sin. Period. And my precious brother, I would never want to see you in hell. I would rather take that punishement that let you have it even though I don't know you, but Christ has already done that work for both of us.

Hope this clarifies things.

I'm not meaning to sound mad or anything supplanter, but i hate hearing that--cause to me its just like, "oh well...i really odnt care and i'll be just fine if i trust God and go to Hell---I haven't lost a thing." but thats wrong because to me that wouldnt be very fair???

I got angry at God today and I regret it, i dont know why im like this and i never asked for it, all i wanted to do was coem to Him and look what happened. i get angry but i know thats probably the devil putting those types of thoughts in my head. but to me the reality is that ill NEVER know--just like you said, if im forgiven or not.

Hey Caty i understand your anger toward that way of thinking but i think in this case Supplanter wasnt thinking about how that would come across we all say things sometimes and wonder why we said them exactly that way ,
i really think in this case it was that ..

Yep, Andy is right. Make sure you read my explanation up at the top. Faith is not a gamble and I believe 100% that you can know that you are forgiven, because Christ forgives all of our sins. My basic point in making that, obviously, very bad comment was that you are going to have to find a way to move forward. Either you choose to believe despite your fears and doubts, or you are going to just stay where you are at.

Those are the only options, make a choice to move forward or you've decided to stay. And also, you have nothing to lose in Christ and know that is 100% the truth. Jesus doesn't gamble with us. We are precious to Him. All of us. He died for us, and I stated things that way, because I felt like you wouldn't believe me if I said that I knew if you repented and just continued to follow Christ that you would indeed be saved. Because for whatever reasons, you struggle to believe that right now, so I was trying to tell you to move forward anyway.

You may not be able to get your feelings in line at this point, but still, just resolve to follow Christ anyway, He will meet you where you are at, even in the anger.

 

[imperfectchristian]

Im going to answer this and then im going to leave this alone because im not hear to debate or fight ..You make some valid points but i also see allot of arrogance in your posts now the only thing i find offensive is that ..now you can believe what you want but thank God you are not God and that is all i am going to say to you except God bless you ..

Sounds great! All that matters is the truth. Take the good and leave what you see as bad.

God Bless you as well!

 

[keryakos]

Yep, Andy is right. Make sure you read my explanation up at the top. Faith is not a gamble and I believe 100% that you can know that you are forgiven, because Christ forgives all of our sins. My basic point in making that, obviously, very bad comment was that you are going to have to find a way to move forward. Either you choose to believe despite your fears and doubts, or you are going to just stay where you are at.

Those are the only options, make a choice to move forward or you've decided to stay. And also, you have nothing to lose in Christ and know that is 100% the truth. Jesus doesn't gamble with us. We are precious to Him. All of us. He died for us, and I stated things that way, because I felt like you wouldn't believe me if I said that I knew if you repented and just continued to follow Christ that you would indeed be saved. Because for whatever reasons, you struggle to believe that right now, so I was trying to tell you to move forward anyway.

You may not be able to get your feelings in line at this point, but still, just resolve to follow Christ anyway, He will meet you where you are at, even in the anger.

i just want to say thank you for being supportive of all of us here .. what you stated above is something im trying to believe nothing to loose in Christ ..

 

[Arphaxad12]

Hi again Caty!

Ok, you want to know what blaspheming the Holy Spirit REALLY is: Here are all the facts. Please read carefully:

1. The Phaeisees saw Jesus heal folks miraclulously by the mighty power of "the breath of God" (The Holy Spirit).

2. They KNEW that Jesus did His miracles by the power of the Holy Spirit.

3. They were deathly afraid that Jesus was going to take their power over the people away from them, costing them thousands in finances.

4. So, it was for that reason that they KNOWINGLY attempted to deceive the people and discredit Jesus by telling them that Jesus' miracles were done by the power of the Devil.

Jesus answered them by basically saying: "The Devil cannot cast out the Devil, otherwise he is divided against himself and a kingdom divided against itself will not stand."

And, "If I cast out devils by the power of the Devil, then by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore the work of your sons proves that you really know the truth that I cast out devils by the power of the Holy Spirit."

"Either make the tree good or make it evil. Stop confusing the people by KNOWINGLY attempting to deceive them by telling them that good is evil. Those who do that will never have forgiveness neither in this world nor in the next."

Ok, Caty, did you ever say that a miracle you KNEW was done by the Holy Spirit was from the Devil like the Pharisees did?

Did you ever even SEE a mitacle you knew was done by the Holy Spirit??

Better find another sin to worry about. You couldn't even BEGIN to do the one you're worried about, especially since it can never be done accidentally, it must be done with INTENT!

Best Blessings,
"Arph"
--------------

 

[Caty]

Hey there sister...please watch the video I posted for you in post #187.

i listened to some of it and it made me cry---i feel really even more guilty. that's not your fault for posting it---but i feel like because i might have said or thought those things about God (but i never saw Him that way, i always had a diff. view of Him), I think that ether He is very angry w/me and doesn't hear me or He wants to forgive me but cant' because of that scripture, to me that scripture cancels out every singel one about salvation. and forgiveness.

and to Supplanter, im not angry with you, but whenever people have that view of the situation it just makes me feel bad.

 

[Arphaxad12]

Hi Caty,

Ever think that your relationship/non-relationship with your father could be strongly influencing your opinion of God. Please check it out. God is absolutely NOTHING like our earthly fathers.

Best Blessings,
"Arph"
--------------

 

[imperfectchristian]

i listened to some of it and it made me cry---i feel really even more guilty. that's not your fault for posting it---but i feel like because i might have said or thought those things about God (but i never saw Him that way, i always had a diff. view of Him), I think that ether He is very angry w/me and doesn't hear me or He wants to forgive me but cant' because of that scripture, to me that scripture cancels out every singel one about salvation. and forgiveness.

and to Supplanter, im not angry with you, but whenever people have that view of the situation it just makes me feel bad.

That is nonsense Caty. If we being evil know how to be good to our children, how much more does God who is good know how to be good to us. Jesus said that it is the Father's good pleasure to give you eternal life.

You need to start reprogramming whatever it is that you have been taught about healthy relationship. The changes won't come over night, but they WILL come if you will continually subject yourself to right thinking and remove from your life areas of wrong thinking or that cause wrong thinking...I am going to post one more video for you...its over 40 minutes long but it deals with a situation near the beginning of the video that is very similar to what you are experiencing.

I want to encourage you...please make the time to watch and listen to this message and let the Lord speak His love to you through it.

Blessings!

YouTube - Brennan Manning: Kingdom Works 1999 Video

 

[Supplanter]

i just want to say thank you for being supportive of all of us here .. what you stated above is something im trying to believe nothing to loose in Christ ..

Your welcome.

i listened to some of it and it made me cry---i feel really even more guilty. that's not your fault for posting it---but i feel like because i might have said or thought those things about God (but i never saw Him that way, i always had a diff. view of Him), I think that ether He is very angry w/me and doesn't hear me or He wants to forgive me but cant' because of that scripture, to me that scripture cancels out every singel one about salvation. and forgiveness.

and to Supplanter, im not angry with you, but whenever people have that view of the situation it just makes me feel bad.

It's ok Caty, I just want you to be able to move forward.