I'm afraid...

[keryakos]

Caty, when I ask a question, I won't the answer from your heart. Your heart is the spiritual mind. So stop answering my question from your carnal mind, your brain. DO you understand what I am asking and saying?

Have you ever prayed the Prayer of Salvation?

I dont mean any offense and i know you care about caty but

I dont think you are listening to caty in the same way you expect her to listen to you . Often time s in our desire to help others we fail to really listen ..

Not only are you being a little too demanding you are asking her to discern between her carnal mind and her heart when answering your question .
pray tell how is she supposed to do that ? And how would she know that she did that correctly ? She is answering you honestly as it is ..

 

[KleinerApfel]

There is nobody unforgiveable except anyone who refuses to receive forgiveness.
THAT is the sin against the Spirit - refusing God's forgiveness in Christ.
Of at any time that person then changes their mind and asks, they will receive forgiveness because they are no longer commiting unforgiveable sin.

Caty, did you see this post a few pages back?
I'll quote a bit of my post in case you missed it...

Antidepressants work in all kinds of ways, and many of them are very good for calming those recurring thoughts, whether or not you have other symptoms of depression. I don't know how, I just know it can work, it did for me!

How much are your parents or other supportive adult involved in all this with you? You are so young to be struggling alone.

 

[Questioning Christian]

I'm shocked, because I just clicked in here because I had subscribed, to find out this is 35 pages!!!! WOWSERS!!!! This sounds to me like it's something that won't be solved on a forum. Perhaps some personal counseling is needed to be done by a local pastor or an older woman.

Just, WOW.

 

[Joy]

I'm shocked, because I just clicked in here because I had subscribed, to find out this is 35 pages!!!! WOWSERS!!!! This sounds to me like it's something that won't be solved on a forum. Perhaps some personal counseling is needed to be done by a local pastor or an older woman.

Just, WOW.

I agree with you This is what I suggested early on in the thread.

 

[KleinerApfel]

Standard treatment, (in Britain anyway) for Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, which Caty has, would be Cognitive Behavioural Therapy to help her deal with her thoughts. It has a good success rate when started early, and if needed certain antidepressants help too.

Caty's parents or carer need to be involved and help her find the right doctor and therapist.

 

[keryakos]

Standard treatment, (in Britain anyway) for Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, which Caty has, would be Cognitive Behavioural Therapy to help her deal with her thoughts. It has a good success rate when started early, and if needed certain antidepressants help too.

Caty's parents or carer need to be involved and help her find the right doctor and therapist.

Well speaking for myself here as one who has ocd no amount of drugs or therapy will take away the fear of the unpardonable sin ...and while long threads wont either if you knew the amount of relief that occurs when someone is able to talk about it in an environment that isnt clinical you would understand why we post so much about it .. i do think counseling is a good idea ..but i think talking on here is a good idea as well.

 

[KleinerApfel]

Keryakos, I do understand. It has taken over 20 years to get my depression under some kind of control, so I know therapy and drugs have limitations.

I also know that now I have the right counselling underway and have been on the right antidepressants for a few months, I have become more able to control my own mind and hence deal with spiritual issues.

I certainly don't want Caty, or anyone, to feel unable to keep talking as much as they like on here, but I am concerned that as a young teen she needs adult help in "real" life too.

 

[keryakos]

Keryakos, I do understand. It has taken over 20 years to get my depression under some kind of control, so I know therapy and drugs have limitations.

I also know that now I have the right counselling underway and have been on the right antidepressants for a few months, I have become more able to control my own mind and hence deal with spiritual issues.

I certainly don't want Caty, or anyone, to feel unable to keep talking as much as they like on here, but I am concerned that as a young teen she needs adult help in "real" life too.

point taken and we both AGREE

 

[Arphaxad12]

Hi Caty!

Do you know what this verse means? If you do, you know more than most Christians:
===============================================================================
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. (underline and color are my own).
===============================================================================

In case you don't know the answer, here it is: Everyone, before the first time they say the Sinner's Prayer, is born with Adam's rebellious, self-willed, self-dependant, self-exalting, spiritually dead, faithless nature.

But the Holy Spirit calls and enlivens our dead spirits so that we can even call out to Jesus to save us. Without the work of the Holy Spirit within us it is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to ever say the Sinner's Prayer.

And the moment we do call out to Jesus to save us, the old person we used to be is instantly and permanently put to death spiritually. And in the next microsecond we are spiritually resurrected as new creatures in Christ (born again), adopted forever into God's family as His own holy children with the spirit of Christ engrafted within us. This is a sure and permanent work by God Himself. Man cannot take any credit for it except that he said "Yes" or "Please" under the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit.

So, even if the "old person" you were before you said the Sinner's Prayer blasphemed the Holy Spirit (and that "old person" is the only one who could), it doesn't matter anyway if that "old person" never gets forgiveness, in fact we know they never did get forgiveness because they are now DEAD and your new life is hid with Christ in God! So give that "old person" you used to be a nice funeral in the waters of baptism and thus be forever done with her.

Moreover, the spiritually resurrected (newborn) person you now are is not capable of sinning in their spirit, and the spirit the only place sin can originate anyway:
================================================================================
1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his (God's) seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin ("ou dunamai hamartano"="has no ablity to sin" [in his spirit]), because he is born of God.

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

"If WE say that we have no sin..." (if WE say it, we're WAY "out of line" because only GOD can say that. And He often does in His Word).

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness." (If you're cleansed from ALL unrighteousness, it will never have to be done again unless the Lord did a sloppy job the first time). (underlines, parentheses, brackets, size and and color are my own).
================================================================================

So please stop using your own mind to try to "figure things out." Is your mind better than God's? It appears that you think so. Did you make the Earth and all the 400 billion galaxies in the universe? Did you create the sea and the myriad of creatures, large and small that dwell in it? Did you create yourself? Were you here when the Earth and all the stars were created, when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?? If so, you must be VERY old. How was this all done? But don't feel bad, sadly, most Christians also use their own minds to deny things they should just believe, thus often creating their own upset in one way or another. But no problem. God's mercy endures forever and He understands us perfectly.

Best Blessings,
"Arph"
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[Elijah2]

I'm shocked, because I just clicked in here because I had subscribed, to find out this is 35 pages!!!! WOWSERS!!!! This sounds to me like it's something that won't be solved on a forum. Perhaps some personal counseling is needed to be done by a local pastor or an older woman.

Just, WOW.

Yep, that is what I said at the start, and that is what Caty needs. BUT........

Blessings.

 

[Elijah2]

I dont mean any offense and i know you care about caty but

I dont think you are listening to caty in the same way you expect her to listen to you . Often time s in our desire to help others we fail to really listen ..

Not only are you being a little too demanding you are asking her to discern between her carnal mind and her heart when answering your question .
pray tell how is she supposed to do that ? And how would she know that she did that correctly ? She is answering you honestly as it is ..

Mate, I have been around the traps a long time, mate. And I am listening to Caty, and that is the point of me challenging Caty, because the multitudes of postings, the word that is most prominant in her dialogues is "BUT", and when "BUT" comes in then the merry-go-round begins.

When, Caty begins to answer the questions, then she will have a breakthrough. Also, the questions asked are to bring out the main point that Caty needs counselling by a good GOD-anointed Christian counsellor.

Secondly, is Caty really trying to get off her merry-go-round?

Thirdly, this is a discussion forum and not a counselling forum.

Blessings.

 

[Caty]

Am I trying to stop, you have NO idea. Do you all think I enjoy this??!? I'm misrerable, I see a counselor--but they do not think that my fear if real, there aren't any counelors around here that could help me, ive talked to preachers, but no one understands me. I know the difference between OCD thoughts & MY thoughts. I---MYSELF have had those thoughts (what the pharasies said) about the Holy Spirit, when I was mad. I regret it. Now I'm scared. I believe you all, but what I cannot get out of my head it taht Jesus said A WORD-spoken against the HOly Spirit would not be forgiveable---ever. I don't see how any scripture can dispute that---repentance or anything--He said it would never be forgiven.

 

[Caty]

Thirdly, this is a discussion forum and not a counselling forum.

Blessings.

I didn't believe I asked for any "counseling"....I'm thankful for your help, but I'm really sorry I bothered your forum.

 

[HoneyComb Son]

Caty...Ive been in a similar issue..still am to a degree..i went to see councellors too about the unpardonable sin issue.and like you..im stuck at the same spot..with the scripture saying if you speak a word against the Spirit.you cant be forgiven..i was there.it almost ruined me...caused me to have a mental break down.i saw people..they helped..but i was always caught up..I was looking for relief..i was looking for truth.and more importantly i was looking for peace and forgiveness..I have OCD aswell..plus depression and a tone of emotional baggage..ive thought bad things.and bad thoughts came in to my mind against The Spirit..Ive spoken things ive thought waht if it was against the Spirit.i spoke things in hatred against God..ive thought bad things against the Spirit too while i was angry...maybe even spoken..ive called Jesus satan..and much darker things then that..in my pain and sorrow....ive asked God to get out of my heart.things people wouldnt ever think of...

When i was there..people would telle me it was alright..i woul pray..etc..yet in those dark times no matter how good stuff peopel told me..of resurrance..nothing got through..

You must abandon your reason..You must trust other scriptures that totally show you can be forgiven.. the Word teaches that Jesus went to the cross for all Sin..He didnt leave on out on the cross..he paid the price for it all..if he left one out..then he would of said so Himself...I dont have all the answer myself..yet I know..God is still with me..though i have thought and said things most people would condemn me for with the same issue you talk about...you can be forgiven..but you must trust not your mind.yourself or your strength..you must abandon your way of thinking.and try hope-if all is lost..then thers no reason to atleast try hope..what do you have to lose...your answer will come quickly if you do-please dont listen to the Devil.who is torturing you..You can be forgiven.and if your in Christ..you are already forgiven-Forever!..and theres nothing you can say or do that will take that away..because you belong to God..and what His Son did on the cross

trust in the blood.be patient..this will end.and you will see a brighter day..its not God hurting you nor waiting up there..He is ready to move.but you must just rest and trust..stop worrying and just let go

God blesss

 

[HoneyComb Son]

once you are God's you are His forever.because of the blood of Jesus..there is nothing you can do nor say or do..nothing..that can break that..once you are sealed..you are forever saved by His blood..and you are more different then you believe.the devil this world.yourself cant take God's love away away from you- not even your words or thoughts..because thats how powerful the blood of Jesus is

 

[Caty]

You know I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy--but your post has helped me more that any other one of these 200 some. Just because you've been there.

So did God forgive you?? or have you found forgiveness??

You know people can say they relate but unless you have REALLY been there no one can say they understand, I would have rather died then to have been put thourgh this these this these past months.

 

[keryakos]

Mate, I have been around the traps a long time, mate. And I am listening to Caty, and that is the point of me challenging Caty, because the multitudes of postings, the word that is most prominant in her dialogues is "BUT", and when "BUT" comes in then the merry-go-round begins.

When, Caty begins to answer the questions, then she will have a breakthrough. Also, the questions asked are to bring out the main point that Caty needs counselling by a good GOD-anointed Christian counsellor.

Secondly, is Caty really trying to get off her merry-go-round?

Thirdly, this is a discussion forum and not a counselling forum.

Blessings.

Let me tell you something mate if you think i am going to back off while you drive a teenage girl over the edge you can think again . Caty needs to feel free to ask as many questions as she needs to and to answer But but but to your butt as much as she pleases . And you are right this is not a counselling board ..so stop pretending to be a counselor and try to be a friend . You dont have the slighest idea of the hell she is going through ..And the reason i know that is from the pressure you are trying to put on her as well as your arrogance ... Im not here to fight with you this is Catys thread therefore this is all im going to say here .. Just watch what you say ..

 

[keryakos]

Caty...Ive been in a similar issue..still am to a degree..i went to see councellors too about the unpardonable sin issue.and like you..im stuck at the same spot..with the scripture saying if you speak a word against the Spirit.you cant be forgiven..i was there.it almost ruined me...caused me to have a mental break down.i saw people..they helped..but i was always caught up..I was looking for relief..i was looking for truth.and more importantly i was looking for peace and forgiveness..I have OCD aswell..plus depression and a tone of emotional baggage..ive thought bad things.and bad thoughts came in to my mind against The Spirit..Ive spoken things ive thought waht if it was against the Spirit.i spoke things in hatred against God..ive thought bad things against the Spirit too while i was angry...maybe even spoken..ive called Jesus satan..and much darker things then that..in my pain and sorrow....ive asked God to get out of my heart.things people wouldnt ever think of...

When i was there..people would telle me it was alright..i woul pray..etc..yet in those dark times no matter how good stuff peopel told me..of resurrance..nothing got through..

You must abandon your reason..You must trust other scriptures that totally show you can be forgiven.. the Word teaches that Jesus went to the cross for all Sin..He didnt leave on out on the cross..he paid the price for it all..if he left one out..then he would of said so Himself...I dont have all the answer myself..yet I know..God is still with me..though i have thought and said things most people would condemn me for with the same issue you talk about...you can be forgiven..but you must trust not your mind.yourself or your strength..you must abandon your way of thinking.and try hope-if all is lost..then thers no reason to atleast try hope..what do you have to lose...your answer will come quickly if you do-please dont listen to the Devil.who is torturing you..You can be forgiven.and if your in Christ..you are already forgiven-Forever!..and theres nothing you can say or do that will take that away..because you belong to God..and what His Son did on the cross

trust in the blood.be patient..this will end.and you will see a brighter day..its not God hurting you nor waiting up there..He is ready to move.but you must just rest and trust..stop worrying and just let go

God blesss

That touched me im just stunned right now .... God bless you ..

 

[HoneyComb Son]

Caty..ive been there..not in your shoes..but my own..simliar situation..but we can relate ive found forgiveness..now i say this..its not been fully revealed to me.but in my heart.i feel a sense of im ok..that God loves me and smiles upon me..even in this darkness..you see..God is our father..you must see him that way..it can change it all..if you have a kid.and they are in dark times..do you abandon them? heavens no..just because they are going through hard times and say somethings..no..God is our father he is there for us..just like the prodigy son in the bible..he is there..and yearns for us to come home

my advise caty..like i said..abandon your mind to God..dont go by what you think or feel..dont go by your logic..just trust in God..you will be ok..its not being forgiven..i said i found forgiveness..now in myself i cant feel fully forgiven..dont at times..i feel unforgiven..but you must not go by yourself..does that mean im not forgiven heavens no..God HAS forgiven me..i just have to accept it..just because i dont feel it..or now it..doesnt mean im not forgiven..you cant go by your mind and what you think..now i struggle because im still not knowing the full truth.and its not been revealed to my heart..but God has forgiven me.i just have to get it in my heart nd understand and it to be revealed

you must think of love..not religion..not the "traditions" of men and the church..God is above that all...

caty you are fine...if your in Christ.im not sure if you said you are saved..im sorry i havent looked upon this whole thread..but when you are forgiven in Christ..you are forgiven forever.past present and future..all your sin..past present and future has been forgiven..because of the BLOOD..if you accepted Christ..saved..thats why you can have joy and peace..because you have been forgiven..forever..the blood covers you forever

God loves you very much..He is bigger then our mind..OCD and what you feel and think..in a good way love conquers all..thats why it says in the bible..mercy triumphs over judgement..

Jesus paid the price..our sin..our punishment..so dont fear punishment..because you wont be punished for what God did to Jesus on the cross..its done finished..just be happy.because your free from sin.the law and death..you cant earn His love nor salvation..it was given to you as a free gift of love..accept it.and just live as you who you are..dont worry..everything will be taken care of

 

[Arphaxad12]

Hi Caty!

Here it is again, your answer:
================================================================================
Col 3:3 For you (the person you were before you said the Sinner's Prayer) ARE DEAD, and your (new) life is hid with Christ in God.

Rom 6:3-4 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Rom 6:6-7 Knowing this, that our old (faithless, self-exalting) man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh (their earthly heritage) with the affections and lusts. (PAST tense) (Underlines, parentheses, size and color emphases are my own).
===============================================================================

Sadly, there is about as much chance of Caty understanding the verses above as there is of 99.9 percent of all Christians understanding or believing them.

Even Peter said that Much of Paul's writings were "hard to be understood." But maybe it should be: "hard to be believed?"

Best Blessings,
"Arph"
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