I'm afraid...

[Arphaxad12]

Hi again Caty!

Don't you hope you'll be saved? At least tell me: "I hope so," because please remember what the bible says: "We are saved by HOPE!

So every time you say: "I hope so," it just confirms that you are definitely saved! So keep on saying: "I hope so" over and over. If you no longer "hope so," then you must be SURE you're on your way to the Lake of Truth ("Fire"). But don't fret, for those who desire Christ it will be a wonderful place, the oft-promised glorious New Earth, ruled forever by Jesus in peace and prosperity!

It will only be "Hell" for the Devil and his followers who will not be able to stand Jesus ruling the beautiful New Earth, which is what they desperately wanted to do. And what's worse for them is that they will be considered as a "bloody rag," fit only to be forever trodden underdeet by men. (see Isaiah 14).

So you're in a win-win situation no matter HOW you cut it. You can never lose!

But if you MUST continue torturing yourself, you can always imagine you hit a pedestrian while you were driving. That should do the trick!

How's that housework coming? It's great medicine for OCD, a guaranteed cure. But you might have to "bite the bullet" and force yourself to get started with it!

Brst Blessings,
"Arph"
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[Caty]

I appreciate your help "arph" but I do think you take the situation too lightly. Having the fear of hitting and killing a person isn't something to joke about, its scares the life out of me, so much that i cannot function that day.

& I believe the Bible says that we are saved by faith.

 

[Caty]

You have not committed this sin. Period. Your thoughts and logic betray you, stop heeding them. You must get grounded in the Word for this to stop. One scripture does not cancel out 100's, even thousands of others. It just doesn't. Caty, are seeing a psychologist. I believe that there are definitely spiritual factors here, but also natural factors. You need a good Christian therapist who specializes in OCD. Please seek that out. Our God is a good God. His name is Yeshua (Jesus), and He has not condemned you, whether you believe it or not, but you are condemning yourself. Stop. Get help. Are you grounded in a good church. If not, you need to find one. You are too young to just give up. Do not give up.

Thanks for your help, but I dont think im brtraying myself, because I know for a FACT that I have had these thoughts intentionally. I know the difference & I know that I could be forgiven for the ocd ones but the intentional (angry) ones I dont know about. ---those are the ones that worry me. No I do not got to church ---I tired recently and I could barely sit through the sermon bc of my thoughts (ocd ones). I was miserable. I really hate myself for the other thoughts because I feel like Ive signed my spiritual death certificate. I know you do not believe Im condemed but I can about bet that I can find (webpages & people) who say I am. I am seeing a phsycologist (there are no Christian ones in my area) and she isnt help at all. We end up talking about politics,my life, her life, nothing to my problems. plus i havent told her about the thoughts bc im a very private person, the only way i can tell you all is bc i dont have to see you all. & I dont think I could look at God bc of these thoughts.

But please answer this question for me, if that scripture doesnt cancel out ones of forgivness then how to i interpret "anyone who speaks against the Spirit will not be forgiven" or "A;; sins will be forgiven except this one."

 

[Caty]

How's that housework coming? Ir's great medicine for OCD, a guaranteed cure. But you might have to "bite the bullet" and force yourself to get started with it! quote]


& I clean constantly & it doesnt work for me bc I obsessivly clean. another form of ocd.

 

[Supplanter]

Thanks for your help, but I dont think im brtraying myself, because I know for a FACT that I have had these thoughts intentionally. I know the difference & I know that I could be forgiven for the ocd ones but the intentional (angry) ones I dont know about. ---those are the ones that worry me. No I do not got to church ---I tired recently and I could barely sit through the sermon bc of my thoughts (ocd ones). I was miserable. I really hate myself for the other thoughts because I feel like Ive signed my spiritual death certificate. I know you do not believe Im condemed but I can about bet that I can find (webpages & people) who say I am. I am seeing a phsycologist (there are no Christian ones in my area) and she isnt help at all. We end up talking about politics,my life, her life, nothing to my problems. plus i havent told her about the thoughts bc im a very private person, the only way i can tell you all is bc i dont have to see you all. & I dont think I could look at God bc of these thoughts.

But please answer this question for me, if that scripture doesnt cancel out ones of forgivness then how to i interpret "anyone who speaks against the Spirit will not be forgiven" or "A;; sins will be forgiven except this one."

Have you attributed God's work to Satan, thereby nullifying that Jesus is the Messiah who works miracles by the power of the Holy Spirit and saves us by His sacrifice on the cross, His blood poured out for us and His body broken for us?

Just getting angry at God and speaking in anger does not equal blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. You must first have a heart that looks at God's miracles and work and says that it is the devil's work, and then you would have committed the unforgivable sin, because essentially, you would be denying Christ and His ability to forgive, that is denying Christ His fullness of Deity, that He is the Son of God.

Anger is an emotion and it does not mean you have denied Christ. Of course, Caty, the problem is that you seem unwilling to believe the truth, but readily agree with the worst possible expalnation fo that scripture in terms of how it applies to you. If you want to do real research on that verse, then you must study the Scriptures in and of themselves, we muct take in the whole counsel of God, not man's opinion of what God's counsel is. I don't even expect you to blindly take my word for it. Though I have been a Christian for quite sometime and I have studied the Word for quite sometime as many of us here have. No matter the differences you see in interpretation, the one thing that has been confirmed by all is that you have not committed this sin. The Bible says to let a testiminy be firmly established by at least two or three witnesses. how many people have agreed in this thread. All of them, except for you. We have all agreed with one another based on our separate years of experiences as Christians and our different walks in life and our different perspectives that you have not committed this sin, yet you still choose to believe the worst in this situation.

You have 16 years of experience and some research you've done on web sites that may or may not be credible. We probably have literally 100's of years of experience combined based on being redeemed by His blood and walking intimately with Jesus Christ and being empowered and taught by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit has taught us and no matter where we differed slightly in interpretation, we all came to the same conclusion. Do you understand that? That the Holy SPirit is our teacher and that He has led us all to the same conclusions. What does that tell you?

And I will say it again. You must get grounded in the Word and you need a church. You are going to have to start making some choices to overcome your fears.

 

[Stephen Kendall]

it worries me because ive sinned and stuff because i feel like what the heck im unforgiveable anyway but it still makes me feel bad, and i worry that if i want to please Jesus or not or if im just afraid of hell (which i think thats the only reason), I have all of the terrible thoughts (but i dont want them), but i do desire to have a relationship with Jesus so, i hope thats just enough to make me forgiveable.

That is the key Cathy: "because i feel like what the heck im unforgiveable anyway" That is the aim of Satan and the evidence of his presence. He will play with you the way a fisherman tries to bring a fish in on a hook & line. I can remember him trying to convince me that I had sin too much to be saved as well. He made sure that I realized that I was unsaveable also. When I was scraped off of the bottom of life from committing what I thought were unpardonable sins, I cried out to God and cried for a very long time, it seems for days. Satan wants you right where he has you. You must feel hopeless and to have gone too far. You must feel trapped in your unpardonable sin. Still, today, he will try to influence me that I was a terrible sinner and should not speak about Christ or Christianity. I pray and trust in my God. Will we love God and then he be indifferent to us? Surely God's love is greater than a mere human being's. Somehow, you are missing the message of God to us through the Bible and through Christian lives. The least of the earth (humble), the worst sinners on this planet (honest rependant ones) and the ones who never stop loving God and seeking him will be the ones who go to heaven. Don't let Satan speak in your ear and remind you of your failures. I believe in you Cathy. The sins that I committed were much worst than that of Apostle Paul's, yet Paul was humble and concerned about his own salvation. We need a spirit of fear of God, not of Satan's attempts or memories of our failures. Believe me, you can conquer the entire world and every thought in your head, for Jesus is already with you in your asking for him. It is a long journey, but you have friends to go with you. Please start speaking up and having confidence in Jesus. Know God through the sacrifice of Jesus (his great love for us).

Don't give up ever. I didn't and am now apart from my past and thoughts. You can make it sister. Praise God in your heart and mind when the wrong doubtful thoughts appear. Drown them out with your praises to God. He knows that you seek him and love him. The sacrifice of Jesus already covered all of your sins and future ones, just endure till the end. It will be a beautiful day to come. I hope to see you there. Love you.

 

[Caty]

Have you attributed God's work to Satan, thereby nullifying that Jesus is the Messiah who works miracles by the power of the Holy Spirit and saves us by His sacrifice on the cross, His blood poured out for us and His body broken for us?7

No, I dont believe that I have ever done this but I've been through so much w/this ocd stuff its hard to honestly say yes or no. I dont want to be a person like that but the way I am right now I wonder if I could do something like that if it were really in me. I dont want to, but I still wonder if have or would. I sure hope not, but I don't know.

 

[Supplanter]

No, I dont believe that I have ever done this but I've been through so much w/this ocd stuff its hard to honestly say yes or no. I dont want to be a person like that but the way I am right now I wonder if I could do something like that if it were really in me. I dont want to, but I still wonder if have or would. I sure hope not, but I don't know.

You couldn't do this offhandedly. You would know because it results from the condition of your heart being hardened against God. And if your heart was that hardened against God, then this would not be a "sometimes" thing. You would do this all the time, because that is what you would truly believe.

You don't believe that, so you haven't done this. It is a total impossibility.

 

[andreha]

You couldn't do this offhandedly. You would know because it results from the condition of your heart being hardened against God. And if your heart was that hardened against God, then this would not be a "sometimes" thing. You would do this all the time, because that is what you would truly believe.

You don't believe that, so you haven't done this. It is a total impossibility.

She's spot on. Blaspheming against the Holy Spirit is not something you do by accident and forget about.

 

[Elijah2]

I'm 16

& I've had them (ones that would just pop up) since I was very little. But I would have these "fads" were they would pop in and pop out for like a weeka nd it started happening one day /7 I just looked it up-learned about the unforgiveable sin and its' been down hill from there (about december) But they used to just torture me and pop up but now, I have them whenever I mad (& Im sure they are inetentional) cause I know I'm mad at God(so I cannot blame it all on the devil), but then I feel really guilty and stuff afterwards. But I feel like this wouldn't even be happening if I didn't ahev the ocd.

Caty, when this happens, what do you feel in your heart, not your brain?

 

[Arphaxad12]

Duplicate deleted. Please see original below.

Thanks,
"Arph"
-------

 

[KleinerApfel]

You have not committed this sin. Period. Your thoughts and logic betray you, stop heeding them. You must get grounded in the Word for this to stop. One scripture does not cancel out 100's, even thousands of others. It just doesn't. Caty, are seeing a psychologist. I believe that there are definitely spiritual factors here, but also natural factors. You need a good Christian therapist who specializes in OCD. Please seek that out. Our God is a good God. His name is Yeshua (Jesus), and He has not condemned you, whether you believe it or not, but you are condemning yourself. Stop. Get help. Are you grounded in a good church. If not, you need to find one. You are too young to just give up. Do not give up.

Absolutely agree with this.

Not an OCD sufferer myself, but during major depressive episodes I experience similar loss of ability to resist negative or intrusive thoughts.

I have at last found a GOOD psychiatrist who has been a great help, and have a lovely Spirit filled counsellor - don't be afraid to "shop around" because you need the one that suits you.

Antidepressants work in al kinds of ways, and many of them are very good for calming those recurring thoughts, whether or not you have other symptoms of depression. I don't know how, I just know it can work, it did for me!

How much are your parents or other supportive adult involved in all this with you? You are so young to be struggling alone.

 

[Arphaxad12]

Duplicate deleted. Please see original below.

Thanks,
"Arph"
-------

 

[Arphaxad12]

Hi Caty!

Here's what the bible says about being saved:
================================================================================
Rom 8:24 (KJV): For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

Romans 8:23-26 (Contemporary English Version): The Spirit makes us sure about what we will be in the future. But now we groan silently, while we wait for God to show that we are his children. This means that our bodies will also be set free (from death).

24 And this hope is what saves us. But if we already have what we hope for, there is no need to keep on hoping.

25 However, we hope for something we have not yet seen, and we patiently wait for it.

26 In certain ways we are weak, but the Spirit is here to help us. For example, when we don't know what to pray for, the Spirit prays for us in ways that cannot be put into words. (underlines, parentheses and color are my own).
================================================================================

So, if someone tells a person that they're already saved, that person can never say "I hope so" without faith. If you don't believe a thing, then how could you possibly ever hope for it?? So "I hope so" MUSTcome from faith!

Also, "He/she that comes to God MUST believe that He is (otherwise they wouldn't come at all), AND that He is a rewarder of them who diligently seek Him." (Why would you pray to God so often and so passionately if you thought He was just going to give you evil? You would just leave Him alone ).

If you are unable to stop torturing yourself, I would find a good doctor who can prescribe some correct meds to help you put an end to your self-condemnation and self-torture.

How much suffering will be enough? Even criminals only get a certain definite time for their sentence in prison. Can you "get out for good behaviour?"
Have you tried charity work of some kind? In helping others we always help ourselves. Be obsessive about helping others.

Also, have you considered following the Apostles' instructions by receiving the Lord's great gift of Water Baptism? It will give you power to love yourself and others.

Psa 31:24 Be of good courage, and he shall strengthen your heart, all ye that hope in the LORD.
Psa 33:18 Behold, the eye of the LORD [is] upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy; (underlines and color are my own).

Best Blessings,
"Arph"
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[Stephen Kendall]

Here is some help:
John 6:35-40 (New International Version)


35 Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

Since Jesus doesn't lie, you are stuck with the above passage as the truth and Satan might as well leave you alone: and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. Satan will always try to confuse you and destroy you. He may have a lot of opportunities before your course is finished here on Earth. You can laugh at him and build a faith as solid as a rock with the rock of God as your standing (Jesus your rock). Start laughing at that denying voice of Satan in you and have some well deserved humor. I believe it was Elijah who laugh at the followers of Baal.

1 Kings 18 (New American Standard Bible)

God or Baal on Mount Carmel

27It came about at noon, that Elijah mocked them and said, "Call out with a loud voice, for he is a god; either he is occupied or gone aside, or is on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep and needs to be awakened."
28So they cried with a loud voice and cut themselves according to their custom with swords and lances until the blood gushed out on them.
29When midday was past, they raved until the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice; but there was no voice, no one answered, and no one paid attention.



As powerful as Satan appears, it is your fears that he preys upon. You have every right to have complete confidence in Jesus Christ and God. Jesus does not lie, you are completely safe. You will succeed Cathy. Come to Jesus by obeying him. Read his words over all else (his spoken words), for he is the son of God. Obey his words (the Gospel) over all else. If you obey and follow him, the Holy Spirit will teach you much and your wonderful journey will have begun. Love you sister.

 

[Caty]

thank you, so you dont think that God would allow someone who is unforgiveble to come to Jesus??

 

[KleinerApfel]

thank you, so you dont think that God would allow someone who is unforgiveble to come to Jesus??

There is nobody unforgiveable except anyone who refuses to receive forgiveness.

And if they are refusing Him, they can't claim it is God refusing to give, can they?

The desire to have a relationship with God proves you are not unforgiveable - because NOBODY has, or will, or could EVER desire Him unless the Holy Spirit was drawing their hearts.

 

[Caty]

See I'm not desiring God or to read the Bible as much as I used to---I think im just worn out. When Jesus said that if we come to Him, He will not turn us away...does that mean that we will recieve forgiveness??

 

[Supplanter]

See I'm not desiring God or to read the Bible as much as I used to---I think im just worn out. When Jesus said that if we come to Him, He will not turn us away...does that mean that we will recieve forgiveness??

I think that is a fair interpretation.

 

[Caty]

what do you mean?