I'm a false convert. What do I do now?

BNR32FAN

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Oh? On what basis do you make this claim?

I’ve based this off of my own personal experience in my transition to becoming a new creation in Christ.

I see. Does your experience necessarily represent that of every other person?

No probably not but I didn’t say it will take time I said it can take time. In my case it did take time to change and I’m still changing more and more.

Maybe. Maybe not. I've counselled and discipled a fair number of people over the years and have observed that an intellectual assent to the Gospel does not necessarily indicate a heart-desire to know and walk with God.

I haven’t experienced this and I’m not sure how I would know for sure who is truly seeking God and who is not. I think that would require knowing the specifics of their personal life. I really don’t understand how someone purely seeks God on an intellectual level.
 
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cerulean

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I’ve based this off of my own personal experience in my transition to becoming a new creation in Christ.



No probably not but I didn’t say it will take time I said it can take time. In my case it did take time to change and I’m still changing more and more.



I haven’t experienced this and I’m not sure how I would know for sure who is truly seeking God and who is not. I think that would require knowing the specifics of their personal life. I really don’t understand how someone purely seeks God on an intellectual level.
I’ve based this off of my own personal experience in my transition to becoming a new creation in Christ.



No probably not but I didn’t say it will take time I said it can take time. In my case it did take time to change and I’m still changing more and more.



I haven’t experienced this and I’m not sure how I would know for sure who is truly seeking God and who is not. I think that would require knowing the specifics of their personal life. I really don’t understand how someone purely seeks God on an intellectual level.
I appreciate that you don't think as I do. I don't know, really, what the problem is between cerulean and God, exactly. And neither do you. So, we'll each post comments along the line we think is probable and let God do with what we write as He will. Okay?



Uh huh. I don't agree. I think it may be something more fundamental to cerulean's approach to God. Again, I can't say for sure. And neither can you. We're both just offering possible options.



Oh? On what basis do you make this claim?



I see. Does your experience necessarily represent that of every other person?



Maybe. Maybe not. I've counselled and discipled a fair number of people over the years and have observed that an intellectual assent to the Gospel does not necessarily indicate a heart-desire to know and walk with God.

Neither of you are really answering my question, you're just debating each other. I asked what I should do next. If I am saved, what should I do to grow spiritually? If I'm not saved, what should I do to fix that? That's what I want to know.

(PS: I'm a girl. Please don't refer to me as "he.")
 
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BNR32FAN

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Neither of you are really answering my question, you're just debating each other. I asked what I should do next. If I am saved, what should I do to grow spiritually? If I'm not saved, what should I do to fix that? That's what I want to know.

(PS: I'm a girl. Please don't refer to me as "he.")

Ahh please forgive me I took a guess and I always get it wrong when I do that. I didn’t want to keep writing he or she when referring to you. My mistake no disrespect intended sister. I already gave the best advice I can in my earlier posts. This last one was answering the questions the person was asking me.
 
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aiki

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Neither of you are really answering my question, you're just debating each other.

No, I addressed your question. See post #29 in this thread.

If I am saved, what should I do to grow spiritually? If I'm not saved, what should I do to fix that? That's what I want to know.

If you're saved, the next step is to become rooted and grounded in Christ.

Colossians 2:6-7
6 As you have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,
7 rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving.


You are "rooted and built up in Christ" by 1.) Abiding in him (John 15:4-5) and 2.) Increasing in your knowledge of the Christian faith (2 Timothy 3:16-17; 1 Peter 2:1-2).

If you're not saved, the "fix" is to appeal to God for the wherewithal to truly believe the Gospel and trust yourself to your Saviour. And keep making that appeal until God answers. Remember, though, that God isn't going to force you to trust in Christ and love him. At some point, you must choose to respond in love and trust toward him as your Saviour and Lord.

2 Timothy 1:12
12 ...I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.

(PS: I'm a girl. Please don't refer to me as "he.")

Will do.
 
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cerulean

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I don't know what to do. I'm so sick of living like this, but I have no other option. I want so badly to just kill myself, but I know that I'd just go to Hell, which would be much worse. But I may as well just get it over with since I'm apparently destined to go there anyways. I have nothing to do in the meantime except suffer.
 
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paul1149

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I can't even cry anymore. Tears are pointless now. God sees them but He doesn't care.
He does care, but you need to flip the switch of faith.
 
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aiki

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I don't know what to do. I'm so sick of living like this, but I have no other option. I want so badly to just kill myself, but I know that I'd just go to Hell, which would be much worse. But I may as well just get it over with since I'm apparently destined to go there anyways. I have nothing to do in the meantime except suffer.

This sort of thinking is never going to lead you anywhere but deeper into unhappiness. Are you living in a garbage dump, swarmed constantly by flies, every breath filled with the stench of rot and filth, as some in third world countries have to do? I saw a documentary a few years ago now of people in the Philippines who are born, live and die amidst mounds of refuse, disease-ridden channels of sewage trickling by, scraping out an existence from the putrid grunge all around them. How does your life compare? You living in a garbage dump? Are flies buzzing around your suppurating sores, laying eggs in them when they can? Are you dying of malaria, or dysentery, or rabies in a cardboard box in the middle of a jungle of disgusting junk? I very much doubt it. And yet, you want to kill yourself. The folk in the garbage dump wanted to live. Funny that. They lived in the middle of true misery and were glad to be alive, but you live in the middle of western affluence and ease and yet want to kill yourself.

Why do you say you're destined for hell? For every person, heaven is only a prayer away.

I'm in so much agony over knowing that I'm not saved. I've just been sleeping constantly so that I don't have to deal with the pain. Every time I wake up, I just take more sleeping pills and go back to sleep.

Well, maybe its time to stop sleeping and time to start walking with God.

Nobody really cares.

Not true. God cares. More than anyone else, He cares about you. Why do you doubt it? Wasn't dying on a cross for you demonstration enough of His deep, deep love for you?

I can't even cry anymore. Tears are pointless now. God sees them but He doesn't care.

Oh? And how do you know this, exactly? It is in God's nature to care. Caring is part of what makes God who He is.

I'm completely hopeless. There's nobody who can help me.

Getting a wee bit over-dramatic here. If you keep telling yourself these lies, you're eventually going to believe them.

This is the lowest low I've ever hit. I'm closer to giving up on life than I've ever been before. I don't know what to do.

Here's an easy step to take: Start counting your blessings. Do you have food to eat? Thank God for the food. Do you have access to electricity and clean, running water? Thank God for these things. Do you have a comfortable bed to sleep in? Thank God for it. Do you have decent clothes to wear? Thank God for them. And so on. There is no better remedy for the sort of despair you're in than to begin to be thankful. And you don't have to feel thankful in order to be thankful. Just start thanking God even if you don't feel particularly grateful. Every time you begin to feel really down, make a list of things you can be thankful for and then thank God for them. And if there is nothing you can think of to be thankful about, you can always thank God that He has died on a cross to save you from your sins.
 
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cerulean

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This sort of thinking is never going to lead you anywhere but deeper into unhappiness. Are you living in a garbage dump, swarmed constantly by flies, every breath filled with the stench of rot and filth, as some in third world countries have to do? I saw a documentary a few years ago now of people in the Philippines who are born, live and die amidst mounds of refuse, disease-ridden channels of sewage trickling by, scraping out an existence from the putrid grunge all around them. How does your life compare? You living in a garbage dump? Are flies buzzing around your suppurating sores, laying eggs in them when they can? Are you dying of malaria, or dysentery, or rabies in a cardboard box in the middle of a jungle of disgusting junk? I very much doubt it. And yet, you want to kill yourself. The folk in the garbage dump wanted to live. Funny that. They lived in the middle of true misery and were glad to be alive, but you live in the middle of western affluence and ease and yet want to kill yourself.
I know, it's ridiculous that I want to die despite how fortunate I am. But it feels so pointless to live in a constant cycle of apathy, guilt, legalism, leniency, apathy, guilt, legalism, leniency, apathy, guilt, legalism, leniency, apathy, guilt, legalism, leniency, over and over and over again until I eventually die. I know that I'll never actually kill myself, out of fear of what will happen to my soul afterward. I'm just saying that I want to.

Why do you say you're destined for hell? For every person, heaven is only a prayer away.
I've prayed that prayer and I'm still not saved. That's why I say I'm destined for Hell.

Well, maybe its time to stop sleeping and time to start walking with God.
I know. I've been sleeping as a way to escape the guilt and pain I'm feeling, even though I know it won't work in the long run.

Not true. God cares. More than anyone else, He cares about you. Why do you doubt it? Wasn't dying on a cross for you demonstration enough of His deep, deep love for you?
The reason why I doubt it is because I've prayed to Him asking Him to save me many times, and He still hasn't.

Oh? And how do you know this, exactly? It is in God's nature to care. Caring is part of what makes God who He is.
Again, I've prayed to God to save me, and He hasn't done it even though it's well within His power. That makes me start to doubt that God actually cares whether I'm saved or not. On an intellectual level, I know that He does care, but it sure doesn't seem like it.

Getting a wee bit over-dramatic here. If you keep telling yourself these lies, you're eventually going to believe them.
The reason why I say that nobody can help me is that I've sought help from so, so many people, and nobody has been able to give me any advice that has actually helped. And yes, I'm probably being overly dramatic, because a) I'm a teenage girl b) I'm not exactly in a very clear mental state right now and c) I tend to use hyperbole, especially when I'm very upset.

Here's an easy step to take: Start counting your blessings. Do you have food to eat? Thank God for the food. Do you have access to electricity and clean, running water? Thank God for these things. Do you have a comfortable bed to sleep in? Thank God for it. Do you have decent clothes to wear? Thank God for them. And so on. There is no better remedy for the sort of despair you're in than to begin to be thankful. And you don't have to feel thankful in order to be thankful. Just start thanking God even if you don't feel particularly grateful. Every time you begin to feel really down, make a list of things you can be thankful for and then thank God for them. And if there is nothing you can think of to be thankful about, you can always thank God that He has died on a cross to save you from your sins.
Thank you for the advice. I will try.
 
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cerulean

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This sort of thinking is never going to lead you anywhere but deeper into unhappiness. Are you living in a garbage dump, swarmed constantly by flies, every breath filled with the stench of rot and filth, as some in third world countries have to do? I saw a documentary a few years ago now of people in the Philippines who are born, live and die amidst mounds of refuse, disease-ridden channels of sewage trickling by, scraping out an existence from the putrid grunge all around them. How does your life compare? You living in a garbage dump? Are flies buzzing around your suppurating sores, laying eggs in them when they can? Are you dying of malaria, or dysentery, or rabies in a cardboard box in the middle of a jungle of disgusting junk? I very much doubt it. And yet, you want to kill yourself. The folk in the garbage dump wanted to live. Funny that. They lived in the middle of true misery and were glad to be alive, but you live in the middle of western affluence and ease and yet want to kill yourself.
I know, it's ridiculous that I want to die despite how fortunate I am. But it feels so pointless to live in a constant cycle of apathy, guilt, legalism, leniency, apathy, guilt, legalism, leniency, apathy, guilt, legalism, leniency, apathy, guilt, legalism, leniency, over and over and over again until I eventually die. I know that I'll never actually kill myself, out of fear of what will happen to my soul afterward. I'm just saying that I want to.

Why do you say you're destined for hell? For every person, heaven is only a prayer away.
I've prayed that prayer and I'm still not saved. That's why I say I'm destined for Hell.

Well, maybe its time to stop sleeping and time to start walking with God.
I know. I've been sleeping as a way to escape the guilt and pain I'm feeling, even though I know it won't work in the long run.

Not true. God cares. More than anyone else, He cares about you. Why do you doubt it? Wasn't dying on a cross for you demonstration enough of His deep, deep love for you?
The reason why I doubt it is because I've prayed to Him asking Him to save me many times, and He still hasn't.

Oh? And how do you know this, exactly? It is in God's nature to care. Caring is part of what makes God who He is.
Again, I've prayed to God to save me, and He hasn't done it even though it's well within His power. That makes me start to doubt that God actually cares whether I'm saved or not. On an intellectual level, I know that He does care, but it sure doesn't seem like it.

Getting a wee bit over-dramatic here. If you keep telling yourself these lies, you're eventually going to believe them.
The reason why I say that nobody can help me is that I've sought help from so, so many people, and nobody has been able to give me any advice that has actually helped. And yes, I'm probably being overly dramatic, because a) I'm a teenage girl b) I'm not exactly in a very clear mental state right now and c) I tend to use hyperbole, especially when I'm very upset.

Here's an easy step to take: Start counting your blessings. Do you have food to eat? Thank God for the food. Do you have access to electricity and clean, running water? Thank God for these things. Do you have a comfortable bed to sleep in? Thank God for it. Do you have decent clothes to wear? Thank God for them. And so on. There is no better remedy for the sort of despair you're in than to begin to be thankful. And you don't have to feel thankful in order to be thankful. Just start thanking God even if you don't feel particularly grateful. Every time you begin to feel really down, make a list of things you can be thankful for and then thank God for them. And if there is nothing you can think of to be thankful about, you can always thank God that He has died on a cross to save you from your sins.
Thank you for the advice. I will try.
 
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aiki

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I know, it's ridiculous that I want to die despite how fortunate I am. But it feels so pointless to live in a constant cycle of apathy, guilt, legalism, leniency, apathy, guilt, legalism, leniency, apathy, guilt, legalism, leniency, apathy, guilt, legalism, leniency, over and over and over again until I eventually die.

Well, it looks to me like part of your problem is in what you're focusing on. Maybe it's time to stop dwelling on the cycle you're in and start dwelling on Christ. God has made us to be conformed to the thing(s) upon which we focus. This is why companies spend multi-billions of dollars every year on advertising. They understand the power of the principle of conformity to focus. Let me give you a very common example of what I'm talking about. Have you ever heard someone say, "I'm never going to be like my mother!"? As time passes, though, this person becomes increasingly like their mother. Why is that? Shouldn't the opposite occur? Well, the reason for this growing similarity is that every time the person says, "I will never be like my mother!" they rehearse in their mind what it is about their mother they despise. And as they do this again and again, focusing on the things about their mother that they hate, the principle of conformity to focus kicks in and makes them more like their mother rather than less. This very same thing happens spiritually, too. The more we focus on our failures and sin, the more they dominate us and shape us. No one ever became more like Christ by focusing on their sin or by dwelling on their frustration. It's only as a person obeys the command of Scripture to "look unto Jesus" (Hebrews 12:2) that they find themselves becoming more like him. Let him saturate your thinking, obsess over him, over his holiness, grace, mercy and love. Make him your daily preoccupation and you will find yourself becoming conformed to his likeness.

I've prayed that prayer and I'm still not saved. That's why I say I'm destined for Hell.

And how do you know you're not saved? How do you know your prayer has failed?

The reason why I say that nobody can help me is that I've sought help from so, so many people, and nobody has been able to give me any advice that has actually helped. And yes, I'm probably being overly dramatic, because a) I'm a teenage girl b) I'm not exactly in a very clear mental state right now and c) I tend to use hyperbole, especially when I'm very upset.

I can relate. I used to be a very dramatic teenage boy. I, too, indulged in a lot of hyperbole. It's really good, I think, that you can see (and admit) what you're doing in this regard. Such honest objectivity can be hard even for adults to attain.

What do you think "advice that actually helps" looks like? Are you looking for a "silver bullet" that will solve all your problems in an instant?

Thank you for the advice. I will try.

Well, to quote Yoda: "Do or do not. There is no try." Gratefulness really is a powerful counter to despair - especially when you make a habit of it.
 
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cerulean

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Well, it looks to me like part of your problem is in what you're focusing on. Maybe it's time to stop dwelling on the cycle you're in and start dwelling on Christ. God has made us to be conformed to the thing(s) upon which we focus. This is why companies spend multi-billions of dollars every year on advertising. They understand the power of the principle of conformity to focus. Let me give you a very common example of what I'm talking about. Have you ever heard someone say, "I'm never going to be like my mother!"? As time passes, though, this person becomes increasingly like their mother. Why is that? Shouldn't the opposite occur? Well, the reason for this growing similarity is that every time the person says, "I will never be like my mother!" they rehearse in their mind what it is about their mother they despise. And as they do this again and again, focusing on the things about their mother that they hate, the principle of conformity to focus kicks in and makes them more like their mother rather than less. This very same thing happens spiritually, too. The more we focus on our failures and sin, the more they dominate us and shape us. No one ever became more like Christ by focusing on their sin or by dwelling on their frustration. It's only as a person obeys the command of Scripture to "look unto Jesus" (Hebrews 12:2) that they find themselves becoming more like him. Let him saturate your thinking, obsess over him, over his holiness, grace, mercy and love. Make him your daily preoccupation and you will find yourself becoming conformed to his likeness.
That's really good advice, but I wonder if it would help me if I'm not saved. If I'm unregenerate, then I won't be conformed to His likeness no matter how much I dwell on Him.


And how do you know you're not saved? How do you know your prayer has failed?
I suppose I don't know, but I can make a pretty good guess based on the fact that I lack a desire to spend time with God, and I haven't produced much fruit.


I can relate. I used to be a very dramatic teenage boy. I, too, indulged in a lot of hyperbole. It's really good, I think, that you can see (and admit) what you're doing in this regard. Such honest objectivity can be hard even for adults to attain.

What do you think "advice that actually helps" looks like? Are you looking for a "silver bullet" that will solve all your problems in an instant?
I guess that by "advice that actually helps", I mean advice that produces a lasting effect. Most of the time, when I ask someone for advice, they tell me what needs to change in my life, but not how to make those changes happen. For example, I once confided in a friend about my depression, and she said, to paraphrase, "You just need to trust that God is big enough." What she said was absolutely true, but I was left with more questions than when I started: How do I start trusting in God? What does "trusting that God is big enough" mean in this context? How does this apply to my depression? What steps do I need to take to start seeing God in the right way? Does this mean that I'm sinning by being depressed?

My friend's advice wasn't wrong per say, but it didn't actually help me at all.


Well, to quote Yoda: "Do or do not. There is no try." Gratefulness really is a powerful counter to despair - especially when you make a habit of it.
Fair enough. Once again, I'm not sure how this habit would help me out of my despair if I'm not saved, but I'll do it anyways.
 
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aiki

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That's really good advice, but I wonder if it would help me if I'm not saved. If I'm unregenerate, then I won't be conformed to His likeness no matter how much I dwell on Him.

Advertising works on regenerate and unregenerate people alike. The principle of conformity to focus is not dependent upon one's spiritual condition.

I suppose I don't know, but I can make a pretty good guess based on the fact that I lack a desire to spend time with God, and I haven't produced much fruit.

Well, the reason for this could be that you aren't saved. But it could be that you are simply unaware of how best to walk with God. An apple tree doesn't bear apples in order to be an apple tree; it bears apples because it is an apple tree. And some apple trees, lacking good soil and moisture, are stunted in their growth and may take much longer to develop sufficiently to bear fruit. In any case, God gives us both the ability and the desire to do His will (Philippians 2:13). The life He wants us to live, He must supply to us. So, ask Him to. And keep asking 'til He does.

Most of the time, when I ask someone for advice, they tell me what needs to change in my life, but not how to make those changes happen.

Yup. This happens a lot among Christians. Lots of "you should" but no "here's how."

Fair enough. Once again, I'm not sure how this habit would help me out of my despair if I'm not saved, but I'll do it anyways.

Actually, clinical psychologists have found that people - not just saved folks - can significantly alter their state of mind by persisting in being thankful. Many Christians, too, have found that gratefulness can help mend a dark mood.

7 Surprising Health Benefits of Gratitude
 
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Cecelia19

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Ive come to the conclusion that I'm not truly saved because I haven't displayed any fruits of the spirit. I don't see Christ as supremely valuable, and I only do good works to ease my guilty conscience. I don't thirst for the Word of God, and I have no desire to commune with the Lord. In fact, I really dislike prayer and Scripture reading, and I avoid it like the plague. I intellectually believe thr Gospel, but it hasn't penetrated my heart.

My question is, what do I do now? How do I get saved for real?

Hello Cerulean,
I wanted to encourage you if you are still struggling with salvation. This has been a big struggle for me as well. One thing that we can take comfort in is that it is far better to be questioning ourselves and striving for true salvation, than to be deceived and be one of those to whom Jesus says "depart from Me" on judgment day. Also, take heart----the fact that you are disturbed about lacking true thirst for the Word and other things is cause for hope that the Lord is working in you to not allow you to be content in sin. I have dealt with the same sins that you mentioned, and been troubled about them also. My mom has reminded me of Matthew 5:6, "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be filled". And the things you mentioned above (Bible reading, prayer, etc) are aspects of righteousness. Also, doing them in some measure can lead to enjoyment. You can start small---read a chapter of the Bible each day, or even five verses to start. I have recently gone through a season of not wanting to read the Bible, and I found when I made myself do it I found enjoyment in it. Some things that we can take comfort in are the fact that God is willing to save, and is near to those who are broken-hearted over sin. He makes no distinction on who He will save---His only requirement is that we be those who "feel their need of Him" and do not put any trust in ourselves. "He who began a good work in you will be faithful to complete it"(Phil.1:6). We know that God never breaks His promises, so take heart--if He has begun this work in you, to make you concerned about your spiritual condition and not be content where you are, He will continue and complete that good work in you. I saw you mentioned sexual sins above, and wanted to encourage you that none of them are too big for Him to cleanse and forgive. Sexual sin is something I have personally struggled with as well, and of a very awful kind. It is so horrible, it can almost drive to despair with memories of it. But, Jesus is bigger and stronger than sin. He is willing and able to deliver. He will begin the work of deliverance in this life, and complete it in Heaven. Don't ever give up seeking Him---my Dad said once that the duty of everyone--unbelievers, seekers, and believers - is to seek God. Seeking Him is part of obedience to Him, as He commands us to "seek ye first the Kingdom of God"(Matt.6:33). This life is a battle, but it is short, and then we have eternity. An eternity of joy and peace with God is worth all the heartache and struggles we have here.

Take courage, dear friend. I am praying for you (and I mean that!) to truly find peace with God. I hope that someday we can meet in Heaven if not sooner on this earth.

Also, you may find encouragement from some pastors who are very solid and care about seeking souls. John MacArthur, Paul Washer, Voddie Baucham and John Piper are a few of them, and they have websites, and/or sermons on a site called sermonaudio.com
 
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