I'm a Christian

[Niffer]

Agreed im new here but i thought being a Christian was about love tolerance
forgiveness and enjoying life....i really struggle with the fire and brimstone statements because at my essence thats not what i believe to be either right or true

Christianity has, unfortunately been watered down to the 'fluffy God in the sky" a lot - mostly due to seeker-sensitive natures, who would be offended or 'turned off' if one admitted to a place such as hell.
Christianity IS about Love, forgiveness and enjoying our lives through Christ, we're asked to be loving, not tolerant. If I see evil, I will stand against it, because I believe I'm called to.

The greatest commandment is to Love God, then Love your Neighbour.

Sadly, a lot of denominations really like to 'pick and choose' and skip over the parts of theology that are not perhaps, politically correct, or could possibly offend people.

But while Christ is the embodiment of love, he did not tolerate sin, and he offended MANY people by speaking the truth.
I have no desire to be part of a community that is so afraid to tread on toes that they give up part of the Bible.

~ Niffer

 

[mkgal1]

How, exactly? Unless one is seeking, one should have a community of faith.

That's possible without attending a "church". There is an organization called Bible Study Fellowship (BSF)...for one example. It's all over the world, and is devoted to pulling from all denominations.

Any time a group of believers is devoted to relying on their relationship with God....studying the Bible....searching it for answers....and "doing life together" (iron sharpening iron).....I think they're doing what the early church did.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

That's possible without attending a "church". There is an organization called Bible Study Fellowship (BSF)...for one example. It's all over the world, and is devoted to pulling from all denominations.

Any time a group of believers is devoted to relying on their relationship with God....studying the Bible....searching it for answers....and "doing life together" (iron sharpening iron).....I think they're doing what the early church did.

The early church has the Apostles who taught doctrine, and each church had leaders within who were responsible for maintaining that doctrine. The idea of 'cell groups' and 'house churches' is a foreign idea.

 

[Hetta]

So where does Matthew 18-20 fit into this? If Jesus is there with two or three people who are gathered together, why is that not a 'church'? I would be up for a house church. I don't want to be a part of corporate worship again - and I don't think that my family will be, unless we decide to bite the bullet and take that step for the younger kids who still want to be a part of a church.

My 17yo who made that comment (loves Jesus/hates the church) does actually go to church every Sunday with his gf. That's what made his comment so funny. He goes to be with her, because he loves her, and we could do that for the younger ones, but I have no great expectations of a church any longer.

 

[Hetta]

Well the early church cannot have resembled what is church now. It's impossible. Actual church structures were not even in place until hundreds of years later, so people must have met in their homes.

 

[ValleyGal]

Sure, people met in homes, but they still had their leaders and scholars. Imo, where the Bible talks about two or three gathering, that is for prayer, not for pastoral leadership. I think church community is invaluable. More can be done together than apart.

I love the analogy one of my social work instructors used. One teacher gave everyone in the class $5. They were told they could either take their money and use it for themselves, or they could pool it and do something for the whole class. The class debated...and they ended up using it as a class. They had a party with food and decorations and all...and they all pitched in with food prep and decorations. The experience drew them together as a class.

In the same way, a church community works together for more than what people can do on their own. The Bible tells us not to forsake the fellowship....

 

[ImaginaryDay]

*Blind post
I suppose what I'm trying to get at with the whole thread, and posting the Evangelical Manifesto, comes back to the reasons that the 'more than bothered' thread was asked to be closed. I read through the whole thing and it seems that as much as people try to bow out, it's not possible. Paul warns us in scripture about these types of back-biting behaviors in Galatians, even going so far as to say that those who do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Now to me, that's a serious statement. Yet we do it. To be honest, if this is the face of Evangelical Christianity, I'd rather stay home on Sunday and watch football.

But I know that there's an opposite side to this. Before I came to Canada I was set to re-join the Presbyterian church where I grew up. At least I knew that the people there were willing to be genuine. It was a spectacular place to be, honestly, because they cared for one another and the community. So I felt it was important for me, in this thread, to make a bit of a statement as to why I'm a Christian and what that does and doesn't mean (in my estimation). I really don't do 'bumper sticker faith' (i.e. "why I hate religion but love Jesus", "I'm a follower, not a fan", etc.). I really am searching for something deeper, something beyond petty clinging to viewpoints that only alienate rather than foster discussion.

 

[Hetta]

*Blind post
I suppose what I'm trying to get at with the whole thread, and posting the Evangelical Manifesto, comes back to the reasons that the 'more than bothered' thread was asked to be closed. I read through the whole thing and it seems that as much as people try to bow out, it's not possible. Paul warns us in scripture about these types of back-biting behaviors in Galatians, even going so far as to say that those who do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Now to me, that's a serious statement. Yet we do it. To be honest, if this is the face of Evangelical Christianity, I'd rather stay home on Sunday and watch football.

But I know that there's an opposite side to this. Before I came to Canada I was set to re-join the Presbyterian church where I grew up. At least I knew that the people there were willing to be genuine. It was a spectacular place to be, honestly, because they cared for one another and the community. So I felt it was important for me, in this thread, to make a bit of a statement as to why I'm a Christian and what that does and doesn't mean (in my estimation). I really don't do 'bumper sticker faith' (i.e. "why I hate religion but love Jesus", "I'm a follower, not a fan", etc.). I really am searching for something deeper, something beyond petty clinging to viewpoints that only alienate rather than foster discussion.

So really this thread was a slam. Silly me, I thought it was a serious topic.

So out of here ....

 

[ImaginaryDay]

So really this thread was a slam. Silly me, I thought it was a serious topic.

So out of here ....

Thanks for reading and taking it seriously. I appreciate it. These are only issues I've been dealing with for a number of months...

 

[andy b]

Christianity has, unfortunately been watered down to the 'fluffy God in the sky" a lot - mostly due to seeker-sensitive natures, who would be offended or 'turned off' if one admitted to a place such as hell.
Christianity IS about Love, forgiveness and enjoying our lives through Christ, we're asked to be loving, not tolerant. If I see evil, I will stand against it, because I believe I'm called to.

The greatest commandment is to Love God, then Love your Neighbour.

Sadly, a lot of denominations really like to 'pick and choose' and skip over the parts of theology that are not perhaps, politically correct, or could possibly offend people.

But while Christ is the embodiment of love, he did not tolerate sin, and he offended MANY people by speaking the truth.
I have no desire to be part of a community that is so afraid to tread on toes that they give up part of the Bible.

~ Niffer

this is the paradox i struggle with ,you either preach forgiveness or you dont...im either forgiving my enemies or im not ...i really would like clarification on what should be forgiven ( sin or otherwise ) and what shouldn't ...it seems all sins are equal just that some appear more equal than others...im not trying to come over funny but im trying to become a good Christian.....

 

[ValleyGal]

Hetta, I'm not sure it's a slam. Some people out there - me included - struggle with this. In fact, if I did not already know who I believe and why I believe (my God), I would have zero to do with anything/anyone Christian because of stuff like this. It's about not really living what we preach. If we preach a gospel of love, then we sure better be living the gospel of love because actions speak louder than words. And it is the reason I do not leave my Christian faith - if mine is the only love that some experience as the face of Christianity, then I better be sure that I am a good representative of the love of Christ. Unfortunately, there have been some here who have not lived out their faith, and that can be really disappointing to the point of shaking a man's faith. So rather than help a brother out with the compassion and love that we preach, we would rather be outta here? Hmm.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

this is the paradox i struggle with ,you either preach forgiveness or you dont...im either forgiving my enemies or im not ...i really would like clarification on what should be forgiven ( sin or otherwise ) and what shouldn't ...it seems all sins are equal just that some appear more equal than others...im not trying to come over funny but im trying to become a good Christian.....

Many would say that all sin is equal. However, I see that your faith icon is 'Catholic', so I'm not sure how that would be answered in that context. Forgiveness is a tricky issue, because forgiveness and reconciliation can often become confused.

 

[Hetta]

Hetta, I'm not sure it's a slam. Some people out there - me included - struggle with this. In fact, if I did not already know who I believe and why I believe (my God), I would have zero to do with anything/anyone Christian because of stuff like this. It's about not really living what we preach. If we preach a gospel of love, then we sure better be living the gospel of love because actions speak louder than words. And it is the reason I do not leave my Christian faith - if mine is the only love that some experience as the face of Christianity, then I better be sure that I am a good representative of the love of Christ.

This just continues to be a slam. I saw you being given an apology several times over on your thread. That is Christlike. Rather than accepting the apology, you continue to rake over the ashes.

 

[ValleyGal]

An apology? Please, tell me which post. I never saw any apologies except the ones I gave.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

Hetta-
Was doing some thinking. If you are not currently attending a church, and considering the statement by your son (in light of the fact that he still attends with his gf), what are the circumstances that made you leave? People don't one day up and decide "Well, I've had enough of this one, time to go", there are mitigating circumstances. What happened that was so serious that you left?

I ask, because this whole thread is about mitigating circumstances and identity as a Christian. And yes, it is meant to be a serious thread.

 

[Hetta]

An apology? Please, tell me which post. I never saw any apologies except the ones I gave.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7785734-24/

Post #233

"I don't believe that I was being rude. But I apologize that I wrote in such a way as to cause offense."

Post 244
"For my part, I apologize."
"I'm sorry for my lack of clarity"
"So, again, I apologize that wasn't clear."
"Look, I realize I've offended you.

I'm sorry for that."

 

[ValleyGal]

NM. Not worth it. Won't derail A34's thread....which is perfectly legitimate and should be responded to as a brother in Christ struggling with hypocrisy in the body....and we all do....after all, if we didn't, there would not be confession that we don't need to be part of a church body.

 

[Hetta]

............. <speechless>

 

[hijklmnop]

Your wife got involved in a debate that got heated so you posted about how some Christians (aka the ones involved in the debate that werent your wife) on this board aren't as Christian as your 20 page manifesto says we should be, and the very people you are criticizing on a deeply spiritual level are supposed to counsel you through this? Without being offended?

That makes no sense to me.

 

[ImaginaryDay]

Hetta-
Was doing some thinking. If you are not currently attending a church, and considering the statement by your son (in light of the fact that he still attends with his gf), what are the circumstances that made you leave? People don't one day up and decide "Well, I've had enough of this one, time to go", there are mitigating circumstances. What happened that was so serious that you left?

I ask, because this whole thread is about mitigating circumstances and identity as a Christian. And yes, it is meant to be a serious thread.

Bump