Illumination and Conviction without Regeneration

[oworm]

Greetings fellow Reformed Brethren

There is a lot of discussion lately about, what to all intents and purposes amounts to what we know as the Ordo Salutus. Does Faith Precede regeneration and such. I know, I know it gets tiresome going over the same old arguments time after time after time.

I've been reading through John Owens work on the Holy Spirit as published by the Banner of Truth in its excellent little puritan abridged editions and came across a statement I had not thought of before.

Owen contends that it is possible to come under the illumination of the Holy Spirit and even come under conviction of sin and yet remain unregenerate. Of course he says it in a much more long winded way in his original work but I thought it might be an interesting discussion by way of asking if you have witnessed or experienced this either directly or indirectly

 

[JM]

Interesting. Could you supply a quote from the work? Reading the op made me think of Hebrews 6, which made me thinking A. W. Pink's commentary.

Concerning the Spirit’s work with the non-elect, we begin by enquiring, Upon what does He work? We answer, Upon the faculties of men’s souls. First, He works upon the understanding. There are in all men natural faculties of understanding, will, and affection. A man could not love God unless he had in him the faculty of affection—a stone could never love God! So a man could never understand spiritual things unless he had the faculty of understanding. With the elect, the Holy Spirit "renews" the understanding (Rom. 12:2 compared with Titus 3:5); but with the non-elect, He only enlightens or educates it. The understanding of fallen and unregenerate men, which is enlightened by the Spirit, is capable of knowing, in some measure, both the Godhead, and parts of His law.
​

http://pbministries.org/books/pink/Hebrews/hebrews_025.htm

 

[oworm]

Interesting. Could you supply a quote from the work? Reading the op made me think of Hebrews 6

Yes, Owen did a lot of work in Hebrews.
These quotes are from The Banner of Truth RJK Law abridged version

Illumination is not regeneration, nor does regeneration infallibly take place after illumination. When light is shone on Gods saving grace, then the soul sees clearly what is being offered. So illumination prepares the soul for regeneration.

The second thing that happens is that the Holy Spirit brings conviction of sin.

Owen goes on to say

Some neglect this light and conviction or seek to stifle it. Some are overwhelmed by the power and strength of their lusts, the love of sin and the power of temptations. Some think that being enlightened is quite enough and that this is all God intends to do with them

Further

In some,real conversion takes place. This initial work of the Holy Spirit [illumination and conviction] is neither weak nor imperfect,but it can be willfully and stubbornly resisted. In the elect, the Holy Spirit of his own sovereign grace,removes this willful stubbornness. The rest he leaves to suffer the righteous rewards of their evil deeds

So, when considered alongside passages like Hebrews 6 and Matthew 7:21-23 it can be concluded that there are those who can have some experience of the Holy Spirit in terms of gifts and graces and yet remain totally unregenerate. But it struck me all the more that what Owen is contending is that there can be some measure of Spirit inspired enlightenment and conviction of sin that falls short of regeneration. I suppose the parable of the sower falls into this category too but it is still very striking to me when you consider it with more than a passing observation.

 

[gord44]

Very interesting thread with some very sobering food for thought.

 

[JM]

Excellent thread oworm! The quotes you posted need time to sink in but I think you're on to something. I'm going to blog the quotes and your comments, if you don't mind.

 

[JM]

John Owen on the Holy Spirit - Dr. Sinclair B. Ferguson (1 of 2) - YouTube

John Owen on the Holy Spirit - Dr. Sinclair B. Ferguson (2 of 2) - YouTube

 

[oworm]

Dr Ferguson did his PHD dissertation on Owens Theology. When I attended a Banner of Truth conference a few years ago he sold me Owens 16 volume set for $10 per copy.

 

[twin1954]

How does this line up with what our Lord said was the work of the Spirit in John 16?


Joh 16:7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.
Joh 16:8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment:
Joh 16:9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me;
Joh 16:10 concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer;
Joh 16:11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
Joh 16:12 "I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
Joh 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
Joh 16:14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
Joh 16:15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

 

[oworm]

How does this line up with what our Lord said was the work of the Spirit in John 16?


Joh 16:7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.
Joh 16:8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment:
Joh 16:9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me;
Joh 16:10 concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer;
Joh 16:11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
Joh 16:12 "I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
Joh 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
Joh 16:14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
Joh 16:15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

Not sure if your question is rhetorical or not?

 

[twin1954]

Double Post. See next post

 

[twin1954]

Not sure if your question is rhetorical or not?

No it wasn't rhetorical. I wondered how what the Lord says about the work of the Spirit being to convince, not just convict, as to being effectual and sure. I wondered how the fact that the Spirit takes the things of Christ and shows them to us leading us into the truth concerning ourselves and Christ fits with Owen's view that the Spirit works to illuminate but not regenerate.

Also how our Lord spoke about not being able to see the kingdom of God unless we are born of the Spirit. John 3

 

[twin1954]

Haven't had time to watch the videos yet. So if my questions are answered in them just ignore my comments.

 

[JM]

When I talk about the Gospel with unbelievers I often see them convicted of their sin with no ability to believe in Christ and would have to say they fully understand their sinfulness but hate God for it.

Is John 16 a good example of illumination? Where God convicts but doesn't regenerate the reprobate?

Before I believed in Christ I was happy with my sinful life and I knew my sin was sin, it just wasn't until Holy Spirit convicted me that I realized the gravity of my sin, through regeneration I was given the ability to believe.

 

[oworm]

No it wasn't rhetorical. I wondered how what the Lord says about the work of the Spirit being to convince, not just convict, as to being effectual and sure. I wondered how the fact that the Spirit takes the things of Christ and shows them to us leading us into the truth concerning ourselves and Christ fits with Owen's view that the Spirit works to illuminate but not regenerate.

I think what Owen is saying is that although there must be a necessary work of the spirit illuminating and convicting it does not always follow that regeneration will take place. If you look at the scriptural examples given I think that is demonstrated. There are other examples in scripture like Balaam or King Saul of men who had a measure of spiritual knowledge and even anointing but fell short of regeneration.

Also how our Lord spoke about not being able to see the kingdom of God unless we are born of the Spirit. John 3

Actually I think Jesus makes the point here. You can be a teacher of Israel as Nicodemus was with all the external qualifications of office and yet remain spiritually dead

 

[oworm]

When I talk about the Gospel with unbelievers I often see them convicted of their sin with no ability to believe in Christ and would have to say they fully understand their sinfulness but hate God for it.

Is John 16 a good example of illumination? Where God convicts but doesn't regenerate the reprobate?

Before I believed in Christ I was happy with my sinful life and I knew my sin was sin, it just wasn't until Holy Spirit convicted me that I realized the gravity of my sin, through regeneration I was given the ability to believe.

I think Acts 24:22-27 is a prime example of this where we read that Felix had a "rather accurate knowledge of the way (Illumination?) and even trembled as Paul spoke (Conviction?) Yet there is no evidence of regeneration in his life.

 

[JM]

I think Acts 24:22-27 is a prime example of this where we read that Felix had a "rather accurate knowledge of the way (Illumination?) and even trembled as Paul spoke (Conviction?) Yet there is no evidence of regeneration in his life.

James 2.19? "devils believe?" I wonder if this passage fits. Are we basicly talking about prevenient grace?

 

[oworm]

James 2.19? "devils believe?" I wonder if this passage fits. Are we basicly talking about prevenient grace?

I'm pretty confident Owen would not have held to such a position. At least not in the Arminian concept that man of his free will can accept or reject the offer of salvation.

As I understand it I think prevenient grace is more of a generalization of a pre existent grace.

I think Owen is being much more particular in that there are individuals who come so close to regeneration that they look and sound like the real thing. Like in the parable of the wheat and the tares. They both look similar but are left until the final harvest before being rooted out.

 

[twin1954]

I think the first thing we need to do is define Biblically what is meant by illumination and conviction, how does Owen mean it and if having an outward knowledge of things, intellectual experience, is actually a work of the Spirit.

 

[JM]

Gill on 'enlighten' or illumination,

"who are so enlightened as to see the evil effects of sin, but not the evil that is in sin; to see the good things which come by Christ, but not the goodness that is in Christ; so as to reform externally, but not to be sanctified internally; to have knowledge of the Gospel doctrinally, but not experimentally; yea, to have such light into it, as to be able to preach it to others, and yet be destitute of the grace of God:"

 

[oworm]

I think the first thing we need to do is define Biblically what is meant by illumination and conviction, how does Owen mean it and if having an outward knowledge of things, intellectual experience, is actually a work of the Spirit.

I would say the following is pretty definitive

For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened , who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. 7 For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. 8 But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned