Illegal alien thread misinterpretation

[hraedisc]

I asked on another thread that was closed this question:

<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><

Call the INS and report the illegals (they are lawless and unethical)

or

provide them with info so they can get handouts from the gov't, paid for by your taxes (the Earth is the Lord's)?

<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><

Someone said this in the post that probably got it closed:


thats awful! You dare to judge these people? How do you know they are lawless and unethical?

I WAS NOT saying that, but the parenthetical statement indicated the attitude of those who would call the INS and report the illegals.

However, if they violate the law and enter the country without authorization, wouldn't they be lawless? If they only took from the system and never gave to it, would that be ethical?

This thread is legitimate. I am asking what a Christian should do if he knows about illegals in his neighborhood. I am not doing anything else. Personally, I believe that the last poster on the thread is the reason it got closed. The topic is not evil.

 

[Inspired]

I actually agree with the last poster in the previous thread.

And as for what they give back, they work twice as hard for half the salary, and are grateful they are making that much money.

This country was founded by illegal immigrants who fled their country in search of a better life, and to be free from persecution.

"they say we've been looking for illegal immigrants
can we check your car
i say you know it's funny
i think we were on the same boat back in 1694" ~ I.G.

 

[Extirpated Wildlife]

I can not look at this from a Christian view but as political view.

These are illegal aliens. And i am not opposed to shutting the borders. You have to have a government govern who comes in. If illegals can come in illegally, the so can terrorist come in illegally.

They are breaking a law, our law, by coming in. So they are criminals, per se.

Aliens have to be sent back.

INSPIRED, and we set up a government and we willing take the tired and poor and huddled masses yearning to be free. But you need to go through the right channels. I don't care about the "back-then" stuff. We are a government now. not aliens in a different land. Your not a illegal immigrant anymore.

 

[Dewjunkie]

I think that the main problem is that most of the illegal immigrants don't have the slightest clue where to begin the proper application for US citizenship. They hear about America where anyone can get a job paying 20 times more than the average wage in their country (blanket estimation for effect, not an actual researched number); they hear about a guy that will take them there for $300 and all they have to do is ride in the back of a truck for a few days; they look at their hungry kids and react accordingly. When they are caught in America, for the most part they are deported without any real education on the proper way to gain citizenship. Repeat cycle A.

I realize the INS is overwhelmed and underbudgeted, but if they approached the matter with a desire to help the immigrants get in legally, rather than just tossin' them back across the fence, they could avoid repeat offenders. They could also help prevent the illegal who didn't get caught from sending $1500 down to the guy that got him across to bring his family up.

Illegal immigrants are breaking the law by not going throught "the channels", yes. To generalize them all as lawless would be wrong. Most of them just want the chance to better their existence. You can't blame them, and perhaps the government could remedy a large problem by trying to help them.

 

[hraedisc]

Blameless illegals? Hmmm...

 

[hraedisc]

From another view... should Christians enter illegally into countries that do not allow religious liberty in order to fulfill Jesus command?

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations..."

 

[coastie]

Originally posted by <><
Blameless illegals? Hmmm...

As a victim of the US INS program I can tell you that the INS is not a well run organization.

Apart from all of the problems my wife had when applying for her Green Card (keeping in mind that I am a military member and I had to move quite often during the application proccess), I have had some negative run ins with INS agents.

My wife ended up almost gettign deported when we had to move because I was being transferred. They charged us twice for our paperwork because somewhere between San Francisco, San Diego and Seattle INS lost it. And instead of apologizing for making us go through the system THREE TIMES, they fined us!

I ended up having to get a lawyer (who deals specifically with INS related issues) who told me that the INS does this sort of thing ALL OF THE TIME!

futher more, the INS help line (a 1-800 number) is a bunch of bunk because it isn't even really part of the INS. And the information that they give is completely misleading and gets legal aliens illegal status because of their mistakes.

Nobody regulates the INS. If they make a mistake, no body holds them accountable for it. The help line is the only way to get any information and they are ALWAYS wrong. If you go in to see an agent you will be waiting in a room for hours upon hours waiting for someone to see you (even though you have an appointment) and then be told that that person is taking any more appointments for the day.

But wait I have more...

 

[coastie]

I'm in the COast Guard and I live about 10 miles from the Canadian Border. My wife is a Canadian citizen. I have never before had any problems using my military ID to go back and forth between the coutries (and I do the trip at least once a month. However, two months ago when I tried to come back in the country all I had was my miltary ID and I was taken into a room and questioned.

Explain this to me, I'm in the Coast GUard, I have a Security clearance (well above that of almost any INS agent). However, I was taken into a room and questioned for 15 minutes the other while trying to enter the country. They gave up on questioning me when I told them that I woudl have my Commanding Officer give them a call. They said that next time I leftthe country, this wouldn't happen again as long as long as I brought my birth certificate.

Well a few weeks ago I did just that and STILL got questioned! They told me that next time I needed a passport, while the person whom I was traveling with got just a passing glance of his military ID.

They weren't profiling me or anything (becuase I look pretty Irish) they were just doing what they are allowed to becuase they are unregulated.

The INS needs to be restructured before you go on laying blame on illegal immigrants. That's not where the fault lies.

 

[Dewjunkie]

My point exactly, coastie. The INS is run poorly, and if they did a better job of helping people who want citizenship instead of patting citizens down to make sure they aren't smuggling any Black Cats across the San Ysidro crossing, the illegal problem would be lessened. Along with the applications for citizenship they should hand out a copy of "Government Red Tape for Dummies".

 

[Inspired]

Originally posted by quizzler
I can not look at this from a Christian view but as political view.

These are illegal aliens. And i am not opposed to shutting the borders. You have to have a government govern who comes in. If illegals can come in illegally, the so can terrorist come in illegally.

They are breaking a law, our law, by coming in. So they are criminals, per se.

Aliens have to be sent back.

INSPIRED, and we set up a government and we willing take the tired and poor and huddled masses yearning to be free. But you need to go through the right channels. I don't care about the "back-then" stuff. We are a government now. not aliens in a different land. Your not a illegal immigrant anymore.

The only reason this is "our" land is because we came over, terrorized the people who where already here and took it over.
Sometimes they don't have the options of going through the proper channels, they are in fear of their lives, so who are we to say, "no, go back to your country and die, you didn't fill out the proper paperwork."

 

[Omaha-gal]

set me straight on this,
i want to understand something you all have touched on in these posts:


could the unregulated INS be part of the major reason we have tolerated in this country,
the not so- secret muslim school/ death to america- training camps, recruiting young impressionable american born teens, to become cold blooded ' kill em for Allah' militants,&nbsp;ready to become martyrs for bin what's his name?

why do we allow them to come and live here, when their practices of living the Koran, that&nbsp;teaches this false prophet stuff,which&nbsp;is against our country's freedoms and blood bought way of life?

why are they here? is it for living the american way of life,
no, it is mostly for their religious freedom, and intolerance of&nbsp; our free country and it's values, theirs is an agenda of re-definement of what they want our country to become- which is to make this a nation of Islam.They have radical faith and an evil-based determination, they are on a foreign mission, that seeks to invade and change our freedom life and liberty, from&nbsp;One nation Under God-&nbsp;to their false god&nbsp;Allah.

So, when will the United States&nbsp;government protect the home land from&nbsp;this type of&nbsp;foreign invasion ?

i say send those people packin.

&nbsp;

&nbsp;

 

[Inspired]

Originally posted by Omaha-gal
set me straight on this,
i want to understand something you all have touched on in these posts:


could the unregulated INS be part of the major reason we have tolerated in this country,
the not so- secret muslim school/ death to america- training camps, recruiting young impressionable american born teens, to become cold blooded ' kill em for Allah' militants,&nbsp;ready to become martyrs for bin what's his name?

why do we allow them to come and live here, when their practices of living the Koran, that&nbsp;teaches this false prophet stuff,which&nbsp;is against our country's freedoms and blood bought way of life?

why are they here? is it for living the american way of life,
no, it is mostly for their religious freedom, and intolerance of&nbsp; our free country and it's values, theirs is an agenda of re-definement of what they want our country to become- which is to make this a nation of Islam.They have radical faith and an evil-based determination, they are on a foreign mission, that seeks to invade and change our freedom life and liberty, from&nbsp;One nation Under God-&nbsp;to their false god&nbsp;Allah.

So, when will the United States&nbsp;government protect the home land from&nbsp;this type of&nbsp;foreign invasion ?

i say send those people packin.

&nbsp;

&nbsp;

First you are assuming that all illegal immigrants are arabic/muslim etc.
And I think they should go through the proper procedures when they get here. But if the only way they have to get here is illegally, because they fear for their lives, I don't think we should automatically toss them back to die.

And yes this greatly concerns me, one of the training camps was found 100 miles from where I live in AL.

 

[Extirpated Wildlife]

Originally posted by Inspired
The only reason this is "our" land is because we came over, terrorized the people who where already here and took it over.
Sometimes they don't have the options of going through the proper channels, they are in fear of their lives, so who are we to say, "no, go back to your country and die, you didn't fill out the proper paperwork."

First, How do you think any country was formed? People warring against others. America was formed no differently.

I completely understand why you say what you say. But we can not just allow people to flood into our country just because they live in fear. They will not die in their country.


p.s. Im new to the political world. Im really working to understand things. I want to refine my positions.

 

[Inspired]

Originally posted by quizzler
First, How do you think any country was formed? People warring against others. America was formed no differently.

I completely understand why you say what you say. But we can not just allow people to flood into our country just because they live in fear. They will not die in their country.


p.s. Im new to the political world. Im really working to understand things. I want to refine my positions.

Hundreds of thousands of immigrants die in their country everyday, that is why our military is over there risking their lives to protect them.

 

[two feathers]

<><,

why are you so against illegal immigration?

 

[coastie]

Originally posted by Dewjunkie
My point exactly, coastie. The INS is run poorly, and if they did a better job of helping people who want citizenship instead of patting citizens down to make sure they aren't smuggling any Black Cats across the San Ysidro crossing, the illegal problem would be lessened. Along with the applications for citizenship they should hand out a copy of "Government Red Tape for Dummies".

LOL...

Man I could go on for days about my displeasure with the INS.

THey have done a terrible job stopping would-be terrorists and to fix that problem they harass military members coming back from a weekend with their wife. It's ridiculous!

Closing the border is not an option. It is unethical to close the borders to those seeking assylum or to make a better life for themselves.

I have no problem at all with immigrant legal or otherwise, I feel that before we can start pointing fingers at those who are here for legitimate, we must first find out how we can better run our INS.

By the way... Do not confuse the INS with Customs. US Customs is possibly the best run, most valuable and capable Federeal agency on our borders. US Customs officers save lives every day. They deserve our respect and admiration for the outstanding job they do every day.

 

[Omaha-gal]

in response to a reply to my post,
i dont assume anything bad at all about all immigrants coming in, whether they are from mexico, or else where. i have worked beside and worshipped with many from other countries. i do realize that some coming here are not for radically claiming jihad and the Koran on us.
all people of color who work and live here, and dont run terrorist camps in our nation, are welcome. wouldn't you agree that
it's the terrorists we want out of here?
Recently, a group of Afghan women came into Omaha, and are here now for a short time
due to the efforts of a professor at UNO,
and they are very welcomed, they have a peaceful mission, to become more educated effective teachers in their own country. you possibly have read reports, and have seen documentaries on PBS, about how the situations are there, and how the muslim males oppress women and abuse them. they live in danger, all for the sake of the next generation.
but God made a way. they are here for good reasons, so education can be raised to new heights in their homeland, and a way is being made for the Gospel to be shared as well.
to God be the glory!

 

[Miss Shelby]

Read a book entitled Invasion by Michelle Malkin. If half of what this woman says in her book is true, then our homeland is a dream come true for plotting terrorists. The author of this book gives a scathing critique of our lax immigration and customs polices and the irresponisible enforcement of these by government officals.

The pretense of her book is simple. Immigration needs to be treated as a matter of national security. The borders need to be closed and any illegal immigrant needs to be identified and dealt with appropriately. We have a 4,000 mile border with Canada but only one border gaurd for every 10 miles. Canada has one of the most liberal immigration policies in the world, thus a haven for terrorist. Not to mention the Mexican/US border which is 2,000 miles in length and even more improperly gaurded. She says that Mexican and Middle Eastern aliens are entering our country daily--unchallenged.

She says the goverment won' t do anything about it because they are hapless vote pandering bureaucrats who don't care. It is a very eye opening book, considering that George Bush is getting ready to whack Saddam Hussein within a matter of mere weeks. Wouldn't it be just like that crafty menance to the human race to launch a pre emptive strike with homeland terrorism just as we are about to corner him?

We need to consider the safety of our country first and foremost.

The book is by Michelle Malkin Regnery Publishing, Inc.

Michelle

 

[hraedisc]

Originally posted by two feathers
&lt;&gt;&lt;,

why are you so against illegal immigration?

I don't believe I stated my opinion.

 

[Inspired]

Originally posted by <><
I don't believe I stated my opinion.

Not is this thread.