If....

[twin1954]

Those who read this thread will know that your questions have been clearly answered. And that you do not respond to the actual answers but continue to spout straw men. Any thinking person will see right through your nonsense.

 

[BBAS 64]

"The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9

Those who don't hear and follow are not his, correct. I don't see how that has anything to do with the topic? Seems to me that it supports arminianism. If one ceases to hear and follow are they still a sheep?

Lets follow the pronouns... helped to get an English major away from really bad exegesis and mishandling of the written text of Scripture.

 

[Don Maurer]

I've heard a lot of such wanting cake and eating it from Calvinists for many years.

Now. Does God create men and women knowing they will be denied his Grace and therefore are Hellbound..?

Just reading through the log. Does anyone think the reply above assumes open theism?

I can just picture the open theistic god at Adams sin. He says "bummer, I did not see that one coming." I wonder if open theists believe the sin done by human hands to Christ on the cross was unforseen by God? God did not know the sin of the people of that day was coming? Acts 2:23 This Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.

 

[Don Maurer]

In referring to the penal aspect of the atonement.....

This encapsulates the core error Calvinists will regret on Judgement Day.

Sadly and dangerously arrogant in the extreme...

Arrogance? This seems inflammatory name calling.

Concerning the penal aspect of the Atonement.... God certainly does hate sin, and pours out wrath and curses upon sin and sinners. In Genesis, after Adams sin, the very first thing God does is curse the ground for Adams sake. Then he cursed the serpent to crawl upon the ground. Then in Deuteronomy 27 he lists curse after curse upon those who disobey the Mosaic Law. Christ took upon himself the curse...
Galatians 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on A tree”—
Paul taught that Christ experienced the penalty of God, God cursed him when he was on the cross. Christ in response to the curse of God cried out... "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me."

How can one read the bible and not see the curses of God and the penalty for sin? The penal aspect (and also a substitutionary aspect) of the atonement and Christs suffering and death on the cross is clear. Read the verse in red above. I If substitution of Christ in that penal aspect of the atonement fails on "judgement day," then I have no hope. It is my only hope. My trust is in Christ alone.

 

[BBAS 64]

Good Day,

The premiere Greek NT scholar DA Carson addresses the language of John 10 here:

Part 6: Jesus the Shepherd of God (John 10:1-21)

In Him

Bill

 

[Josheb]

From your Calvinist perspective God has Pre-Destined, from the beginning of our temporal time, a certain tiny cohort of humanity to be with him in Heaven, does that mean he also pre-Destined the rest of humanity to eternal fire and damnation..?

No, sin determined all to eternal fire and damnation. Whet God ordained He ordained 1) without being the Author of sin, 2) without causing violence to the human will, nor 3) causing violence to the liberty or contingency of secondary causes. This is plainly state in the Westminster Confession, Article 3.1. There is, there no excuse for not knowing. This position necessarily and implicitly acknowledges, the existence of sin, the limited volitional agency of humans (even sinfully dead and enslaved humans), and the existence of secondary causes.

Here is a very simply analogy by which Calvinsim may be understood: If God decides you are going to stub your toe this coming Saturday then every decision you freely make will conspire to have you stub your toe this Saturday.

 

[Radagast]

If, according to Calvinist beliefs, those pre-destined to be in the Elect go to Heaven. Where do those who are not pre-destined to be in the Elect go..?

Since you're Catholic, let me give a 100% Catholic answer to that, from St Thomas Aquinas (an answer that, as a Calvinist, I agree with):

On the contrary, It is said (Malachi 1:2-3): "I have loved Jacob, but have hated Esau."

I answer that, God does reprobate some. For it was said above (Article 1) that predestination is a part of providence. To providence, however, it belongs to permit certain defects in those things which are subject to providence, as was said above (I:22:2). Thus, as men are ordained to eternal life through the providence of God, it likewise is part of that providence to permit some to fall away from that end; this is called reprobation. Thus, as predestination is a part of providence, in regard to those ordained to eternal salvation, so reprobation is a part of providence in regard to those who turn aside from that end. Hence reprobation implies not only foreknowledge, but also something more, as does providence, as was said above (I:22:1). Therefore, as predestination includes the will to confer grace and glory; so also reprobation includes the will to permit a person to fall into sin, and to impose the punishment of damnation on account of that sin.

 

[renniks]

Has God created folks that He knows will reject Him?

Do you think this means those people didn't have the same and equal opportunity to accept him as the ones who did? Knowing doesn't equal causing.

 

[Hammster]

Do you think this means those people didn't have the same and equal opportunity to accept him as the ones who did? Knowing doesn't equal causing.

That’s not an answer. That’s a deflection.

 

[dogs4thewin]

A tiny cohort?

Bible says there will be so huge crowd of saved ones that nobody will be able to count them.

but compared to everyone who has ever lived it will be small I think that was the point.

 

[Sovereign Grace]

So you can sin as much as you like, unrepentantly, with no penalty?

Wow...

That's not even remotely what he said and you know it. Please don't twist ppl's posts on here and/or put words in their mouth, k?