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If you want to be under the Law, don't keep the Sabbath.

k4c

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When people talk about sin they usually point out adultery, stealing, killing and so on. Sometimes you might hear about using the Lord's name in vain or having other Gods but you almost never hear about forgetting the Sabbath. As soon as you mention the Sabbath you get the reply, "You can keep the Sabbath, if you want to be under the Law."

The funny thing is that you are under the Law when you don't keep the Sabbath.

Since the Law points out sin and no one is justified by keeping the Law when one breaks the Law the Law's power to bring death is activated.

Romans 7:9-13 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

The Law was not made for those who are keeping the Law, but rather, for those who are breaking it.

1 Timothy 1:9-10 Knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,

In other words, if one is breaking the fourth commandment that person is under the Law in that the power of the Law to bring death is actively working in that person.

Romans 7:13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

What people should be saying is, "Keep the Sabbath if you don't want to be under the Law."

The grace of God deals with the sin, which is the breaking of the Law, so that the Law loses it's condemning power but not that we should continue to sin ie: break the Law.

Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!

Nor should we say that since grace is here the Law is done away with.

Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

Do you see the deception of the evil one?
 

Cribstyl

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Speaking about deception of the evil one K4c, why would you changed what is meant by "under the law?
What did Paul meant by "under the law?"
If you did'nt know, "to be under the law" is having to observe all that's written in the law.

If you would apply the scriptures to understanding rather than your commentary, you would know that Paul compares being under the law to hearing the doctrine of faith. Read chapter 3 clickGal 3:1

Gal 3:10¶For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree:


The knockout blow to your commentary is this text below;

Gal 3:23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

:ouch:
 
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VictorC

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The funny thing is that you are under the Law when you don't keep the Sabbath.
Launching another diatribe based on a failure to recognize the basic legal concept of jurisdiction merely shows incompetence on your part.
 
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k4c

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Speaking about deception of the evil one K4c, why would you changed what is meant by "under the law?
What did Paul meant by "under the law?"
If you did'nt know, "to be under the law" is having to observe all that's written in the law.

If you would apply the scriptures to understanding rather than your commentary, you would know that Paul compares being under the law to hearing the doctrine of faith. Read chapter 3 clickGal 3:1

Gal 3:10¶For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree:


The knockout blow to your commentary is this text below;

Gal 3:23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

:ouch:

This thread is for those who love God and desire to keep His commandments and not use the grace of God as a license to sin. We already know that you and all the others who follow your train of though have no problem wilth stealing, lying, murder, worshiping other Gods, using the Lord's name in vain and so and so forth.

Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!

Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

If you had the whole truth you would know that the grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness.

Titus 2:11-13 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
 
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Cribstyl

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This thread is for those who love God and desire to keep His commandments and not use the grace of God as a license to sin. We already know that you and all the others who follow your train of though have no problem wilth stealing, lying, murder, worshiping other Gods, using the Lord's name in vain and so and so forth.

Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!

Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

If you had the whole truth you would know that the grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness.

Titus 2:11-13 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

Again, you're exposing yourself.
When did we ever say that it was OK to commit sin?
Most SDA gives protestants credit for striving to keep 9 of the ten.
Remember, you're the one presenting doctrines by commentary of text. I'm one who questions your understanding and present text to refute your claims.
If I'm in error, just make yourself clear.

I'm a defender of the scripture so tell the truth or else argue against the scriptures or words presented to refute your commentary.

Respectfully
 
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Byfaithalone1

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This thread is for those who love God and desire to keep His commandments and not use the grace of God as a license to sin.
Then this thread is for me.


We already know that you and all the others who follow your train of thought have no problem wilth stealing, lying, murder, worshiping other Gods, using the Lord's name in vain and so and so forth.
:shutup:
 
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RND

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If I drive my car and never break any of the rules of the road I'll never, ever have to worry about "being under the law." However, if I break a law (run a red light or speed) and get caught and get a ticket then I am "under the law." The law lays out different penalties for breaking the law. Running a red light doesn't carry the same penalty as killing a neighbor.

The law says I have to pay X amount of dollars. That's being under the law.

Grace says however that the righteous judge will pay the fine for me! The law says I have to pay. Grace says the judge will pay. So my question is the same as Paul's. Just because "the Judge" pays the fine should we commit more crimes so "the Judge" can pay more?

God forbid.
 
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k4c

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If I drive my car and never break any of the rules of the road I'll never, ever have to worry about "being under the law." However, if I break a law (run a red light or speed) and get caught and get a ticket then I am "under the law." The law lays out different penalties for breaking the law. Running a red light doesn't carry the same penalty as killing a neighbor.

The law says I have to pay X amount of dollars. That's being under the law.

Grace says however that the righteous judge will pay the fine for me! The law says I have to pay. Grace says the judge will pay. So my question is the same as Paul's. Just because "the Judge" pays the fine should we commit more crimes so "the Judge" can pay more?

God forbid.

Amen...

Why is that some people get and some don't?
 
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k4c

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Cribstyl; gain, you're exposing yourself.

Hey...

When did we ever say that it was OK to commit sin?

You can't have it both ways.

Most SDA gives protestants credit for striving to keep 9 of the ten.
Remember, you're the one presenting doctrines by commentary of text. I'm one who questions your understanding and present text to refute your claims.

If I'm in error, just make yourself clear.

I'm not sure your train of thought will allow you to receive the whole truth.

I'm a defender of the scripture so tell the truth or else argue against the scriptures or words presented to refute your commentary.

Respectfully

What if I said and gave Scripture to prove Jesus was only a man? You would argue with me because, though there are Scripture verses that say Jesus is a man, it's only half the truth because the are also Scriptures that say Jesus is God. This is how your train of thought works. You only use the verses that say we are not under the Law but you reject the verses that say, though we are not under the Law, we are not allowed to break the Law. Until you reconcile your half baked faith with all these other Scriptures that refute your lawless faith we have nothing else to say.
 
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Cribstyl

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You can't have it both ways.

At least you're consistant. You misrepresent the scriptures and those who dont agree with you.

I'm not sure your train of thought will allow you to receive the whole truth.
truth according to whom?

What if I said and gave Scripture to prove Jesus was only a man? You would argue with me because, though there are Scripture verses that say Jesus is a man, it's only half the truth because the are also Scriptures that say Jesus is God. This is how your train of thought works. You only use the verses that say we are not under the Law but you reject the verses that say, though we are not under the Law, we are not allowed to break the Law. Until you reconcile your half baked faith with all these other Scriptures that refute your lawless faith we have nothing else to say.

"What if" is for storybooks used to confuse what God actually said in His word.

Your OP is being challenged to prove or admit what being "under the law" means.

Personal attacks are not necessary.:cool::cool::cool:
 
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k4c

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At least you're consistant. You misrepresent the scriptures and those who dont agree with you.

truth according to whom?



"What if" is for storybooks used to confuse what God actually said in His word.

Your OP is being challenged to prove or admit what being "under the law" means.

Personal attacks are not necessary.:cool::cool::cool:

I expected no less.
 
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tall73

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In other words, if one is breaking the fourth commandment that person is under the Law in that the power of the Law to bring death is actively working in that person.


Are you saying Jesus was a law breaker from the time He was made?


Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.



Gal 4:4 ὅτε δὲ ἦλθεν τὸ πλήρωμα τοῦ χρόνου, ἐξαπέστειλεν ὁ Θεὸς τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ, γενόμενον ἐκ γυναικός, γενόμενον ὑπὸ νόμον


Rom 6:15 Τί οὖν; ἁμαρτήσωμεν ὅτι οὐκ ἐσμὲν ὑπὸ νόμον, ἀλλ᾿ ὑπὸ χάριν; μὴ γένοιτο.

I think you have misunderstood the phrase under the law.
 
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k4c

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Are you saying Jesus was a law breaker from the time He was made?


Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.



Gal 4:4 ὅτε δὲ ἦλθεν τὸ πλήρωμα τοῦ χρόνου, ἐξαπέστειλεν ὁ Θεὸς τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ, γενόμενον ἐκ γυναικός, γενόμενον ὑπὸ νόμον

Rom 6:15 Τί οὖν; ἁμαρτήσωμεν ὅτι οὐκ ἐσμὲν ὑπὸ νόμον, ἀλλ᾿ ὑπὸ χάριν; μὴ γένοιτο.

I think you have misunderstood the phrase under the law.

All mankind is under the Law and subject to the death penalty. Jesus, though He knew no sin became sin so He too was under the Law. There are two aspects of sin we need to understand. There is the sinful act and the sinful condition. Mankind need not break the Law to be a sinner. A sinner is one who is separted from God and as a result of being separated we do sinful things.

Once we come alive unto God through Jesus we can still do sinful things but now a contriteness rersults.

Contriteness: feeling or showing sorrow and remorse for a sin or shortcoming.

Here is the process of sin leading to death.

James 1:15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

The desire or temptation is not sin and the sin is not the death. The death comes when the sin that is born is nurtured until it becomes full-grown.
 
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tall73

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All mankind is under the Law and subject to the death penalty. Jesus, though He knew no sin became sin so He too was under the Law.

Jesus paid the penalty of the law for us, but he was not under the law by breaking it. He was not of Himself under the law.

Moreover, your view does not fit the context:

Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

law was our schoolmaster. Then there was a change and we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

He goes on to elaborate:
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Gal 4:1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
Gal 4:2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.


The issue is jurisdiction, as seen in the statement that the law was a schoolmaster, and now we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

A schoolmaster is a guide, not a penalty.

Jesus came as one who was under the law, to keep it. And indeed He did keep it.
 
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k4c

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Can you also clarify whether you mean the whole law here or just the ten commandments?

This question has been debated by the best for years. To me, Jesus came under the whole system which included sacrifice, circumcision, the Ten Commandments and even the priesthood. He fullfilled all the above so in some there is no longer a need for them but in others there is still a place for them in the believer's life today.
 
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tall73

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This question has been debated by the best for years. To me, Jesus came under the whole system which included sacrifice, circumcision, the Ten Commandments and even the priesthood. He fullfilled all the above so in some there is no longer a need for them but in others there is still a place for them in the believer's life today.

Jesus did come under the whole system, the whole law. And even in Matthew Chapter 5 we see him expanding on not only the ten commandments but other commandments from the law as well.

So I would agree with you there. In fact, while we come at it from different roads I don't think we would be that far off on what gentiles are still to do as to moral requirements, with of course the notable difference on the Sabbath.

Without a doubt Paul lists many moral imperatives for the gentiles. These also without a doubt include many things from the Old Covenant law.

The difference seems to be how we get there. Am I right in thinking that you believe some laws were fulfilled and some not?

Or do you have some other means of accounting for why you do not keep all the law?
 
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