If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

[LittleLambofJesus]

In the third temple circumcision will be mandatory for gentiles.

Sorry to inform you, but we are the 3rd Temple.....
The Jews and Christian Zionists of course are awaiting their own future Messiah and Temple........

1 Corin 3:
16 Do you not know that you yourselves are God’s temple, and that God’s Spirit dwells in you?

1 Corin 6:
19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;

http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins; and the Roman army as in triumph on the event, came and reared their ensigns against a fragment of the eastern gate, and, with sacrifices of thanksgiving, proclaimed the imperial majesty of Titus, with every possible demonstration of joy.

Thus terminated the glory and existence of this sacred and venerable Edifice, which from its stupendous size, its massy solidity, and astonishing strength, seemed formed to resist the most violent operations of human force, and to stand, like the pyramids, amid the shocks of successive ages, until the final dissolution of the globe. [12]

For five days after the destruction of the Temple, the priests who had escaped, sat, pining with hunger, on the top of one of its broken walls; at length, they came down, and humbly asked the pardon of Titus, which, however, he refused to grant them, saying, that, "as the Temple, for the sake of which he would have spared them, was destroyed, it was but fit that its priests should parish also:" -whereupon he commanded that they should be put to death.


http://www.christianforums.com/threads/why-there-will-be-no-third-temple.7735273/
Why There Will Be No Third Temple!!!

QUOTE="ebedmelech, post: 62740264, member: 311061"

This being Passover, I feel this is the perfect time to focus on why just as Jesus fulfilled the Passover, He fulfilled the temple too!

Many that hold that there will be a 3rd temple are hard pressed to justify that from scripture.

They lean quite heavily on Ezekiel 40-48. A temple that is in a vision to Ezekiel, in which Ezekiel is escorted by "a man" with a rod.

When it comes to the NT the temple fades away. This starts with Jesus declaring Himself to be the temple. Jesus makes this declaration in Matthew 12:6 as He confronts the Phariseees:
6 But I say to you that something greater than the temple is here.

Jesus also called Himself the temple in John 2:19:
Jesus answered them; Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up

That is sufficient to start this discussion of why there will be no third temple!!!

.

 

[Travis93]

How long has it been since you ripped the Book of Galatians and the Book of Hebrews out of your New Testament?

Gal_2:3 But even Titus, who was with me, was not forced to be circumcised, though he was a Greek.


Or do you have any of the New Testament in your possession.

Anyone who has called the Apostle Paul a "false prophet" should be removed from the conversation.

Gal 5:12 I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!

.

Interestingly Paul's ideas on circumcision lead to the following.
Acts 21:28 Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place.
Acts 21:29 (For they had seen before with him in the city Trophimus an Ephesian, whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple.)

As I quoted from Ezekiel 44:9, uncircumcised gentiles are forbidden from entering the temple, yet Trophimus must have thought he could get away with it from all of Paul's "circumcision is nothing" teachings. Of course, he later lied about the reason he was on trial, claiming it was because of his beliefs rather than the temple incident.

Acts 23:6 But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.
Acts 23:7 And when he had so said, there arose a dissension between the Pharisees and the Sadducees: and the multitude was divided.

 

[klutedavid]

Sorry to inform you, but we are the 3rd Temple.....
The Jews and Christian Zionists of course are awaiting their own future Messiah and Temple........

1 Corin 3:
16 Do you not know that you yourselves are God’s temple, and that God’s Spirit dwells in you?

1 Corin 6:
19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;

http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins; and the Roman army as in triumph on the event, came and reared their ensigns against a fragment of the eastern gate, and, with sacrifices of thanksgiving, proclaimed the imperial majesty of Titus, with every possible demonstration of joy.

Thus terminated the glory and existence of this sacred and venerable Edifice, which from its stupendous size, its massy solidity, and astonishing strength, seemed formed to resist the most violent operations of human force, and to stand, like the pyramids, amid the shocks of successive ages, until the final dissolution of the globe. [12]

For five days after the destruction of the Temple, the priests who had escaped, sat, pining with hunger, on the top of one of its broken walls; at length, they came down, and humbly asked the pardon of Titus, which, however, he refused to grant them, saying, that, "as the Temple, for the sake of which he would have spared them, was destroyed, it was but fit that its priests should parish also:" -whereupon he commanded that they should be put to death.


http://www.christianforums.com/threads/why-there-will-be-no-third-temple.7735273/
Why There Will Be No Third Temple!!!

QUOTE="ebedmelech, post: 62740264, member: 311061"

This being Passover, I feel this is the perfect time to focus on why just as Jesus fulfilled the Passover, He fulfilled the temple too!

Many that hold that there will be a 3rd temple are hard pressed to justify that from scripture.

They lean quite heavily on Ezekiel 40-48. A temple that is in a vision to Ezekiel, in which Ezekiel is escorted by "a man" with a rod.

When it comes to the NT the temple fades away. This starts with Jesus declaring Himself to be the temple. Jesus makes this declaration in Matthew 12:6 as He confronts the Phariseees:
6 But I say to you that something greater than the temple is here.

Jesus also called Himself the temple in John 2:19:
Jesus answered them; Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up

That is sufficient to start this discussion of why there will be no third temple!!!

.

Hello LittleLambOfJesus.

The difference between the Old Testament shadows and the New Testament
fulfillment of all things in Christ.

The scripture is all about Jesus!

Your vision is very clear.

 

[klutedavid]

Was there ever a time - OT or NT - when taking God's name in vain was "just fine -- go ahead... do it"???

Genesis 26:"5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."

Gal 1:6-9 - there is only ONE Gospel
Gal 3:7 the Gospel was preached to Abraham

Where there is no Law -- there is no sin. Romans 4.

"Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

The Law was not written on stone - until 430 years after Abraham.

NEW Covenant - Jer 31:31-33 "I will write My LAWS on their heart and mind"
NEW Covenant Heb 8:6-10 "I will write My LAWS on their heart and mind"



Earth to BABeran2 -- feel free to join the conversation



The Gospel preached to Abraham
John 8 'Abraham SAW MY DAY and was glad" --

Gal 1:6-9 - there is only ONE Gospel
Gal 3:7 the Gospel was preached to Abraham


1 Peter 1
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."



I guess we have "YOUR word" for that. Not God's

I prefer the Bible "instead".

Genesis 26:"5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."

Hello Bob.

In ten lines or less, can you explain what you think the Gospel is?

If you said that you have heard the Gospel, what information comprises
the Gospel?

 

[Jan001]

Excellent point.
The Sabbath was the actual sign of the Old covenant, given to the children of Israel at Sinai.

Exo_31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.


.

Thank you for bringing my attention to this Scripture.

 

[BABerean2]

Interestingly Paul's ideas on circumcision lead to the following.
Acts 21:28 Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place.
Acts 21:29 (For they had seen before with him in the city Trophimus an Ephesian, whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple.)

As I quoted from Ezekiel 44:9, uncircumcised gentiles are forbidden from entering the temple, yet Trophimus must have thought he could get away with it from all of Paul's "circumcision is nothing" teachings. Of course, he later lied about the reason he was on trial, claiming it was because of his beliefs rather than the temple incident.

Acts 23:6 But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.
Acts 23:7 And when he had so said, there arose a dissension between the Pharisees and the Sadducees: and the multitude was divided.

In context, we see that Paul who had been a Torah observant Jew while Stephen was stoned, was now in danger of being killed himself as an Apostle of Christ.

Act 21:15 After these days we got ready and went up to Jerusalem.
Act 21:16 And some of the disciples from Caesarea went with us, bringing us to the house of Mnason of Cyprus, an early disciple, with whom we should lodge.
Act 21:17 When we had come to Jerusalem, the brothers received us gladly.
Act 21:18 On the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present.
Act 21:19 After greeting them, he related one by one the things that God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.
Act 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified God. And they said to him, "You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed. They are all zealous for the law,
Act 21:21 and they have been told about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or walk according to our customs.
Act 21:22 What then is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come.
Act 21:23 Do therefore what we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow;
Act 21:24 take these men and purify yourself along with them and pay their expenses, so that they may shave their heads. Thus all will know that there is nothing in what they have been told about you, but that you yourself also live in observance of the law.
Act 21:25 But as for the Gentiles who have believed, we have sent a letter with our judgment that they should abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality."
Act 21:26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day he purified himself along with them and went into the temple, giving notice when the days of purification would be fulfilled and the offering presented for each one of them.
Act 21:27 When the seven days were almost completed, the Jews from Asia, seeing him in the temple, stirred up the whole crowd and laid hands on him,
Act 21:28 crying out, "Men of Israel, help! This is the man who is teaching everyone everywhere against the people and the law and this place. Moreover, he even brought Greeks into the temple and has defiled this holy place."
Act 21:29 For they had previously seen Trophimus the Ephesian with him in the city, and they supposed that Paul had brought him into the temple.
Act 21:30 Then all the city was stirred up, and the people ran together. They seized Paul and dragged him out of the temple, and at once the gates were shut.
Act 21:31 And as they were seeking to kill him, word came to the tribune of the cohort that all Jerusalem was in confusion.
Act 21:32 He at once took soldiers and centurions and ran down to them. And when they saw the tribune and the soldiers, they stopped beating Paul.
Act 21:33 Then the tribune came up and arrested him and ordered him to be bound with two chains. He inquired who he was and what he had done.
Act 21:34 Some in the crowd were shouting one thing, some another. And as he could not learn the facts because of the uproar, he ordered him to be brought into the barracks.

Were you in the crowd that day shouting... "He is a false prophet". ?


Act 21:35 And when he came to the steps, he was actually carried by the soldiers because of the violence of the crowd,
Act 21:36 for the mob of the people followed, crying out, "Away with him!"

Are you a part of the same mob?

.

 

[Jan001]

I prefer the Bible "instead".

Genesis 26:"5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."

It seems to me that laws pertaining to a sabbath were not given to any person on earth until 430 years after God's covenant was made with Abraham. Exodus 31 records that the sabbath law was given to the people of Israel through Moses as a sign that they may know that it is God who sanctifies them, and not any other god. So what did the Israelites do next? Exodus 32 records that the Israelites worshiped the golden calf as their god instead of worshiping the LORD as their God.

The sabbath law is a part of the first covenant law of Moses, but the sabbath law is not a part of the new covenant law of Jesus Christ.

Exodus 31:13
Say to the people of Israel, ‘You shall keep my sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the Lord, sanctify you. rsv​

14 You shall keep the sabbath, because it is holy for you; every one who profanes it shall be put to death; whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall be put to death. 16 Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the sabbath, observing the sabbath throughout their generations, as a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign for ever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.’” 18 And he gave to Moses, when he had made an end of speaking with him upon Mount Sinai, the two tables of the testimony (covenant), tables of stone, written with the finger of God. rsv

​

"For ever" means "for as long as this specific covenant with the people of Israel is in force."

Jesus made a new covenant with the people of Israel, but He also made His new covenant with His other sheep who were not of the house of Israel. Of these other sheep who are not Jews (houses of Judah and Benjamin), the only ones I know of who kept the sabbath were the Samaritans. The Samaritans claim to be of the tribe of Joseph, by Ephraim, Manasses; and of the tribe of Levi. http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/sam/manners.htm

John 10:14-17
I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me, 15 as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd. 17 For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life, that I may take it again. rsv
​

The sabbath law is a part of the law given through Moses to the Israelites, but the sabbath law is not a part of the law given through Jesus Christ to His sheep. His sheep include Israelites, but His sheep also include non-Israelites who were not required to keep the sabbath laws.

The non-Jewish Christians met together in each other's houses on the first day of the week to worship God instead of meeting together in synagogues on the seventh day of the week to worship God. Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2, Acts 8:3

The apostles went to the synagogues to preach to the Jews and to the devout converts to Judaism on the sabbath because that is when and where they were all gathered together. Saul/Paul persecuted the apostles and the other Christian Jews who accompanied them to the synagogues. The Jews did not allow Greeks into their synagogues unless they were converts to Judaism. The Jews did not allow fellowship with either Samaritans or Greeks. John 4:9

 

[Jan001]

Excellent!!
So simple, even a child can understand it.
Btw, have you and/or others studies on the "covenantle" parable in Luke 16? One of the most misunderstood parable of Jesus in the NT, IMHO.

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/luke-16-26-and-the-great-chasm-gulf.7436472/

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Lazarus
Abraham vs Moses

Luke 16:26
And upon all of these between us[Abraham/Grace] and ye[Moses/Law] a great chasm hath been established.
So that those willing to cross-over hence toward ye no may be able,
neither thence toward us may be ferrying

What is the "great gulf" which stands between the rich man and Lazarus?
Paul aptly explains it to us in the 11th chapter of Romans. He tells us that God has blinded the Jews and "given them a spirit of stupor, eyes that they should not see and ears that they should not hear, to this very day" (Rom. 11:8).
JOHN 5:45
"Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you — Moses, in whom you trust.
LUKE 16:
30 "And he said, 'Nay! father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
31 But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' "

While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Yeshua was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage.
Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who he was referring to with this parable. This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the House of Judah, the Jews!

.............................................

.


.

I was not aware of this before. Thank you!

 

[Jan001]

And Hebrews 8:6-10 tells us that Jesus Christ gave us the Ten Commandments.

Hebrews 8:6-10 does not state anything specific about the Ten Commandments. This particular passage pertains to the whole first covenant law of Moses. It references the prophecy in Jeremiah 31:31-34 which was fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 8:6-10
But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry which is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion for a second.

8 For he finds fault with them when he says:

“The days will come, says the Lord,
when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers
on the day when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of the land of Egypt;
for they did not continue in my covenant,
and so I paid no heed to them, says the Lord.

10 This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, says the Lord:
I will put my laws into their minds,
and write them on their hearts,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people. rsv​

Jesus established a new covenant and it was not like the covenant that God made with the Israelites in the desert. Jesus' new covenant does not have the same laws as the first/old covenant.

Hebrews 8:13
In speaking of a new covenant he treats the first as obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. rsv

Hebrews 7:11-13
Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levit′ical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchiz′edek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? 12 For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well. 13 For the one of whom these things are spoken belonged to another tribe, from which no one has ever served at the altar. rsv

Romans 7:6
But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we serve not under the old written code but in the new life of the Spirit. rsv


Galatians 3:23-26
Now before faith came, we were confined under the law, kept under restraint until faith should be revealed. 24 So that the law was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a custodian; 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. rsv

Christians are not under the law of Moses. Christians are under the law of Jesus Christ.

​

 

[Jan001]

What a delightful post! AMEN!

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...-sion-christ-will-profit-you-nothing.7715971/
if you observe Circumcision, Christ will profit you nothing.

Act 15:5
But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses.”

Gal 2:12
For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles;
but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party.

Philip 3:2
Beware of the dogs! beware of the evil workers! beware of the circumcision! [Psalm 22:16/Isaiah 56:11/Revelation 22:15]
Psalm 22:16
For dogs have surrounded me, assembly of ones doing evil have encompass me as a lion, hands of me and feet of me.

Reve 22:15
Outside the dogs and the sorcerers and the prostituters and the muderers and the idolaters and every one being fond of and doing falseness.
[Philipp 3:2]

.............

............................

.

I want to thank you and all the other new covenant Christians who have contributed their knowledge on this topic. I have learned a lot from you all!

 

[Jan001]

In the third temple circumcision will be mandatory for gentiles.
Ezekiel 44:9 Thus saith the Lord God; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.
The Passover will also be celebrated again, requiring circumcision of gentiles.
Ezekiel 45:21 In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.
Exodus 12:48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

You keep trying to live according to the laws of the first covenant. This covenant is no longer in use. It has been made obsolete by Jesus' new covenant.

Hebrews 8:13
In speaking of a new covenant he treats the first as obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. rsv​

 

[BABerean2]

I want to thank you and all the other new covenant Christians who have contributed their knowledge on this topic. I have learned a lot from you all!

We are all trying to get back to the New Covenant Church of Christ, which understands the original teachings of the Apostles of Christ.

We are battling the Judaisers, just as the Apostles Paul and Peter did.

The Sabbath is really very simple, if we take the text of Colossians 2:16-17 at face value.

Col 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.
Col 2:17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.


The dietary laws, the festivals, new moons, and Sabbath are a shadow of the real thing.

That real thing is the Son of God.

The Christian's Sabbath has a name. It is not Saturday and it is not Sunday. It is the Son of God.

Those indwelled by His Spirit have the Lord of the Sabbath inside of them every day of the week.

1Co_3:16 Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you?

1Co_3:17 If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.

1Co_6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own,


A building does not become a church, until a believer indwelled with God's Spirit walks into it.

Thank you so much for speaking the truth in love.

.

 

[BobRyan]

Hebrews 8:6-10 does not state anything specific about the Ten Commandments. This particular passage pertains to the whole first covenant law of Moses.

Your urgency to ignore details in Hebrews 6-10 is not serving your argument well

Christ is our one and only High Priest.

Christ made the covenant at Sinai - and that means HE gave mankind the TEN Commandments just as your own church claims the TEN Commandments are for all mankind.

Christ's NEW covenant is the SAME in Hebrews 8 as it was in Jeremiah 31:31-33
"10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,"

Hebrews 8:6-10
quoting Jer 31:31-3


Hebrews 8:1-10New American Standard Bible (NASB)
A Better Ministry
8 Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man. 3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer. 4 Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; 5 who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “See,” He says, “that you make all things according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain.” 6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.


A New Covenant
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,

“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

​

Rom 3:31 "Do we make void the LAW of God by or faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW"

Romans 7

6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. 9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; 10 and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; 11 for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.

The Conflict of Two Natures
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.

 

[BobRyan]

Galatians 3:23-26
Now before faith came, we were confined under the law, kept under restraint until faith should be revealed. 24 So that the law was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a custodian; 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. rsv

Christians are under the law of Jesus Christ given to all mankind AND then later written on stone at Sinai by Christ Himself according to Heb 8:6-10. (hint: your own denomination admits that the TEN Commandments are and have always been - for all mankind)

​

The term "Under the LAW" is defined in Romans 3:19-21 as under the "Condemnation of the LAW" as sinners who are not yet covered by the Gospel having not yet come to faith in Christ. But once we come to faith in Christ we are no longer under the sentence of hell - but rather are born-again saints with the LAW of God written on the heart.

"the saints KEEP the Commandments of GOD and their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

 

[BobRyan]

You fail to admit that the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham

.

Was there ever a time - OT or NT - when taking God's name in vain was "just fine -- go ahead... do it"???

Genesis 26:"5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."

Gal 1:6-9 - there is only ONE Gospel
Gal 3:7 the Gospel was preached to Abraham

Where there is no Law -- there is no sin. Romans 4.

"Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

The Law was not written on stone - until 430 years after Abraham.

NEW Covenant - Jer 31:31-33 "I will write My LAWS on their heart and mind"
NEW Covenant Heb 8:6-10 "I will write My LAWS on their heart and mind"

Was it before October 22, 1844 ?
Was the Door shut or open?
Did Ellen G. White debunk it?

Shut Door Documents from the estate of Ellen G. White
http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/shutdoor.html

.

Earth to BABeran2 -- feel free to join the conversation

What gospel (Galatians 1:6-9, 3:7) did God preach to Abraham?

The Gospel preached to Abraham
John 8 'Abraham SAW MY DAY and was glad" --

Gal 1:6-9 - there is only ONE Gospel
Gal 3:7 the Gospel was preached to Abraham


1 Peter 1
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."

God certainly did not preach the same exact Ten Commandments of the law of Moses to Abraham

I guess we have "YOUR word" for that. Not God's

I prefer the Bible "instead".

Genesis 26:"5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."

Hello Bob.

In ten lines or less, can you explain what you think the Gospel is?

If you said that you have heard the Gospel, what information comprises
the Gospel?

The Gospel is "good news" -- freedom from the penalty of sin John 3:16 and freedom from slavery to sin Romans 6, Romans 7, Romans 8:4-10) through the blood of Christ on the cross and his ongoing ministry in heaven for us as our High Priest.

The Gospel is not "death to the Law of God" -- read Romans 2:11-16.

Read Revelation 14:12
Read Romans 3:31

 

[BABerean2]

NEW Covenant - Jer 31:31-33 "I will write My LAWS on their heart and mind"
NEW Covenant Heb 8:6-10 "I will write My LAWS on their heart and mind"

Why did you leave out Hebrews 8:13?
Are you selectively quoting again, in order to avoid the verses that destroy the doctrine of the Judaisers?

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.



Shut Door Documents from the estate of Ellen G. White
http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/shutdoor.html
.

 

[BukiRob]

Galatians 3:23-26
Now before faith came, we were confined under the law, kept under restraint until faith should be revealed. 24 So that the law was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a custodian; 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. rsv

Christians are under the law of Jesus Christ given to all mankind AND then later written on stone at Sinai by Christ Himself according to Heb 8:6-10. (hint: your own denomination admits that the TEN Commandments are and have always been - for all mankind)

​

The term "Under the LAW" is defined in Romans 3:19-21 as under the "Condemnation of the LAW" as sinners who are not yet covered by the Gospel having not yet come to faith in Christ. But once we come to faith in Christ we are no longer under the sentence of hell - but rather are born-again saints with the LAW of God written on the heart.

"the saints KEEP the Commandments of GOD and their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Yep.... it is the same thing that Paul speaks of when he talks about "the LAW of Sin and Death"

The same mistake being made to day is played out in Acts when James and the Elders received his report just prior to Paul's arrest. James SPECIFICALLY cites the false argument that Paul is teaching AGAINST the Law. James specifically states that but he and all the elders KNOW that Paul is NOT doing this..... Peter warns us openly that Paul's writings are difficult to understand. The reader of scripture today would be well served to understand that Paul as he quotes of himself is: "a pharisee among pharisee's" In his day he would have been considered a biblical scholar a giant as it relates to his depth of understanding the Torah.

He was a student of Gamaliel. Gamaliel was the grandson of one of the most renowned sages Hillel. To merely be a student of Gamaliel was quite an accomplishment in that Gamaliel required that you have vast amounts of the torah memorized before he would even consider taking you under his teaching. Paul taught much like a professor would teach a doctoral candidate and this is precisely why Peter warns us that it is easy to misunderstand Paul's teaching. Paul speaks from one who is already assuming that you have a basic understanding of the laws, statutes and decrees of Elohim.

The reason this is clear is that one needs to understand James rendering to the gentiles of ACTS 15. James plainly states that 15:21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.” The foundation was to be laid to understand the TORAH. Paul when he is teaching in his letter is assuming you ALREADY have this foundation! There can be zero credible assumption that Paul and ALL of the apostles did not observe sabbath and the feast days.... It is crystal clear through Acts and the other writings that this is what they did until the day they died.

Part of the problem as I see it is that far too many gentile believers subconsciously project their view of the church from where they sit today and make the mistake of not realizing how fundamentally different it was in the first century. Rome did NOT allow any new religions to be started. You were either Jewish OR you were Pagan and ONLY those religious temples approved by Rome could exists. As a gentile believer you could ONLY belong to a synagogue that tolerated the Nazarene sect. While it is true that Paul and other sent from Jerusalem would meet in homes to teach the going to synagogue was in NO WAY disregarded. To suggest otherwise is simply not keeping with historic realities.

Indeed we know that the church in Asia minor continued to observe the feast days, assemble on Sabbath and was basically fairly harmonious with jewish synagogues clear up to the byzantine purges in the 4th century. https://www.andrews.edu/library/car/cardigital/Periodicals/AUSS/1963-1/1963-1-03.pdf

Is fairly convincing evidence that the church in Asia Minor was still observing Sabbath as late as 450Ad

 

[BABerean2]

Yep.... it is the same thing that Paul speaks of when he talks about "the LAW of Sin and Death"

The same mistake being made to day is played out in Acts when James and the Elders received his report just prior to Paul's arrest. James SPECIFICALLY cites the false argument that Paul is teaching AGAINST the Law. James specifically states that but he and all the elders KNOW that Paul is NOT doing this..... Peter warns us openly that Paul's writings are difficult to understand. The reader of scripture today would be well served to understand that Paul as he quotes of himself is: "a pharisee among pharisee's" In his day he would have been considered a biblical scholar a giant as it relates to his depth of understanding the Torah.

He was a student of Gamaliel. Gamaliel was the grandson of one of the most renowned sages Hillel. To merely be a student of Gamaliel was quite an accomplishment in that Gamaliel required that you have vast amounts of the torah memorized before he would even consider taking you under his teaching. Paul taught much like a professor would teach a doctoral candidate and this is precisely why Peter warns us that it is easy to misunderstand Paul's teaching. Paul speaks from one who is already assuming that you have a basic understanding of the laws, statutes and decrees of Elohim.

The reason this is clear is that one needs to understand James rendering to the gentiles of ACTS 15. James plainly states that 15:21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.” The foundation was to be laid to understand the TORAH. Paul when he is teaching in his letter is assuming you ALREADY have this foundation! There can be zero credible assumption that Paul and ALL of the apostles did not observe sabbath and the feast days.... It is crystal clear through Acts and the other writings that this is what they did until the day they died.

Part of the problem as I see it is that far too many gentile believers subconsciously project their view of the church from where they sit today and make the mistake of not realizing how fundamentally different it was in the first century. Rome did NOT allow any new religions to be started. You were either Jewish OR you were Pagan and ONLY those religious temples approved by Rome could exists. As a gentile believer you could ONLY belong to a synagogue that tolerated the Nazarene sect. While it is true that Paul and other sent from Jerusalem would meet in homes to teach the going to synagogue was in NO WAY disregarded. To suggest otherwise is simply not keeping with historic realities.

Indeed we know that the church in Asia minor continued to observe the feast days, assemble on Sabbath and was basically fairly harmonious with jewish synagogues clear up to the byzantine purges in the 4th century. https://www.andrews.edu/library/car/cardigital/Periodicals/AUSS/1963-1/1963-1-03.pdf

Is fairly convincing evidence that the church in Asia Minor was still observing Sabbath as late as 450Ad

Below is the Apostle Paul's response to the doctrine of the Judaisers.

Gal 5:12 I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!


Old Covenant/ New Covenant/ Sabbath

 

[bugkiller]

Your urgency to ignore details in Hebrews 6-10 is not serving your argument well

Christ is our one and only High Priest.

Then you do really endorse Heb 7:12 while you also deny it as truth with your idea of Mat 5:17-18 and ignore LK 24:44. You do keep crying for Scripture.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Christ made the covenant at Sinai - and that means HE gave mankind the TEN Commandments just as your own church claims the TEN Commandments are for all mankind.

Both of these statements are false.

Christ's NEW covenant is the SAME in Hebrews 8 as it was in Jeremiah 31:31-33

No because the Scripture plainly says "new" and not "renewed" in both Jeremiah and Hebrews

"10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,"

Hebrews 8:6-10​

What happened to the rest of the referenced passage? You really expect everyone to over look the fact you only partially quote what you reference?

quoting Jer 31:31-3


Hebrews 8:1-10New American Standard Bible (NASB)
A Better Ministry
8 Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man. 3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer. 4 Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; 5 who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, “See,” He says, “that you make all things according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain.” 6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.


A New Covenant
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,

“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

So that's how you do it. Please take note of the blue bolded which you ignore changing the passage fro truth to a lie. The passage says nothing about movement of the OC. The blue words self define the words new and covenant.​

Rom 3:31 "Do we make void the LAW of God by or faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW"

What exactly do you mean by the above? Do you mean we are obligated to keep the law? Then why does Paul say "not under the law" 2 verses in a row? Why does Paul say - Now we are delivered from the law? Who does the we include? I'll be... you even quote the verse below.

Romans 7

6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. 9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; 10 and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; 11 for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.

So you seem to have answered my question I asked you elsewhere about what law Paul was talking about by quoting the part of the 10 Cs Paul references - coveting.

The Conflict of Two Natures
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members

Nice about you quoting the conflicting natures you wish to deny when you quote from Rom 8, however I don't understand what it has to do with your point except you wish us to think Paul is keeping he law even though he says we are delivered from it. Are you ever going to get it together?

bugkiller