If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

[BobRyan]

1 John 5
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

Mark 7
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

John 14:15 "IF you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments"

 

[W2L]

In what way do you see your preference in that regard addressing Ephesians 6:2??

you have free will - you can choose whatever you wish.

It was always Gods will that children submit to their parents, however that scripture doesn't prove that we must follow the OT commands. Suggesting otherwise is actually taking it out of context I believe.

I honestly believe that God didn't require the Gentiles to observe Days, months and years, even Sabbath, that were given to the Jews under the OC. God sad he would do a new thing and that it would not be the same as the OC covenant that he made with Israel and their forefathers.

Its true that Sabbath seems to be something that will endure even in the NC, however the only disagreement we have is on how the Sabbath is observed. You believe its to be observed on a certain day of the week, but I believe its observed through the spirit somehow, and the day on which its observed is actually more symbolic. I don't believe that day is Saturday but is something else altogether. I believe its very symbolic of following the spirit. That however is done everyday of the week.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You believe that your own personal interpretations/opinions of the Scriptures comprise the gospel of Jesus Christ.

No, I don't, and neither should you believe anyone's interpretation.
It was
by false interpretations that false doctrines and practices got introduced into the 'church';
into any congregation or church or whatever faction big or small that trusts anyone other than Yhwh.

As long as anyone trusts man's interpretation, any man's,

Yhwh says He cursed those who trust man.(this includes men in church, with traditions, practices and interpretations that DIRECTLY OPPOSE YHWH'S WORD).
And thus it is,
just exactly as Yhwh says. Those who trust man/ flesh/ mankind/ traditions/ are cursed.
Those who trust Yhwh are blessed.

Yhwh and Yeshua don't stutter when they speak.
Yhwh's Word is clear and simple and plain (for salvation REVEALED TO BABES and HIDDEN FROM the educated, on purpose, because thus it is the Father's GOOD PLEASURE so to do).

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Luke 10:16
He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.” rsv

Don't forget Jesus said this about Moses/ Torah.
And those who Yhwh called and chose
DID NOT INSTITUTE a heirarchy but rather pointed others to Christ Jesus.
Those who Yhwh called and chose
AGREE WITH MOSES. (Jesus said plainly).

Jesus said if they listened to Moses, they would listen to Him(Jesus).
If they reject Moses, they reject Him(Jesus).

As for the false heiracrchy in false churches, Jesus says don't listen to them.

TEST BY SCRIPTURE, not by tradition of demons or of man.

Scripture is WHAT YOU ARE QUOTING. So then >
Listen to Scripture. Not to the false counterfeit men (who oppose Moses and oppose Scripture and oppose Jesus) you keep referencing.

 

[Travis93]

If the Sabbath truly is still in effect then Paul was an outright liar when he wrote 2Cor3:7-11. He wrote that the 10 commandments were temporary laws that guided Israel. Christians are guided by the power of the Holy Spirit. Old cold stones verses the Holy Spirit, Moses verses Jesus.

Revelation 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Acts 1:26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

 

[Bob S]

No ... he did not.

As we already saw here -

You are in complete denial. When you buy a NEW car it is not the old one renovated. It is not like the old faded one that became a death trap.

This is how we KNOW we belong to the truth........believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. 1Jn3

 

[Bob S]

Revelation 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Acts 1:26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Completely irrelevant unless you tie that to Paul. If so, you are treading on thin ice my friend.

 

[Jan001]

And how is that any different from the pharisees with their tradition of the elders Jesus rebuked over and over? If you accept oral tradition from the church, why not oral tradition from the rabbis that they claim was passed along from Moses alongside the written Torah? If you open the door to unwritten oral teachings can you even be sure Jesus was right in condemning the pharisees?

Please show me exactly which magisterial traditions of the Pharisees Jesus rebuked over and over and then I will comment on them. Thank you.

The oral tradition of the Apostles command that Christians obey all the oral traditions of the apostles concerning the discipline practices and the worship practices of the Church of Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle. nkjv​

Sure, if Paul think he can change the law I will readily accept he's a false prophet. I try to paint him in a pro-law way, saying he's only speaking against the oral law of the pharisees, but if he really does go against God's actual law I have no choice but to reject him based on Deuteronomy 13:1-5. There's numerous problems with Paul, look here.
http://www.problemswithpaul.com/

There is absolutely no problem with St. Paul's writings. His written teachings are inspired Scripture. There is nothing untrue in Paul's writings.

What oral law of God do you think Paul is addressing? Paul is not a false prophet. Paul never taught anyone, "Let us go after other gods’—which you have not known—‘and let us serve them." nkjv Deuteronomy 13:1-5

2 Peter 3:16
as also in all his (Paul's) epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. nkjv
​

The real problem is your own misunderstanding of the Scriptures.

​

 

[Jan001]

Why not?
Why not indeed.
Because it (the whole religious system) is contradictory to Scripture.
i.e. it is not in Harmony with Jesus Life, Purpose, Practice, Salvation, or Plan.

This is simply your own opinion based upon your own personal interpretations of the Scriptures. Perhaps you misunderstand what the writers of the Scriptures meant to teach by their writings.

There are millions of people who read the Scriptures and many if not most think that he is correct in his own personal interpretations of the Scriptures even though his thinking contradicts the others' thinking. Jesus founded one Church and He created a leadership hierarchy for it and He gave it alone His own authority to preach in His name.

 

[Bob S]

Travis, the Torah was God's covenant with Israel only. Why do you continuously insist that somehow Christians are now under a defunct covenant that had laws especially for Israel only?

 

[Jan001]

Who is it who departed from God's Word ?
hint: not Jesus.
Who is it who made the (false) claim to be His Church ?
See how easy that is to resolve ?
Now then, why would a false church claim to be His Church, and teach error ? hmmmm.....
Good question.

Go back to Scripture. Stay away from any "Church" that claims to be "His" but contradicts Scripture.

Fact: You have made for yourself your own church based upon your own personal interpretations of the Scriptures and you have made yourself its head.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

This is simply your own opinion based upon your own personal interpretations of the Scriptures. Perhaps you misunderstand what the writers of the Scriptures meant to teach by their writings.
There are millions of people who read the Scriptures and many if not most think that he is correct in his own personal interpretations of the Scriptures even though his thinking contradicts the others' thinking. Jesus founded one Church and He created a leadership hierarchy for it and He gave it alone His own authority to preach in His name.

Can you read ?
Can you read the Bible specifically ?
(in english, or any other language is fine)
You yourself can go through the Bible and read it.
IF you find AFTER you read the Bible through
that those you trust have stayed true to the Bible,
then you will not change your position.
Yhwh NEVER said to TRUST those men. That heirarchy especially.
They told you that.
Yhwh said do not trust them. (plainly, in the Bible).
Yhwh said HE HIMSELF will teach you the truth from the Bible and His Own Spirit.
(not from those who contradict the Bible).

IF you read the Bible, Yhwh willing, He will show you the contradictions and the lies of men that you trust.
IF you trust Yhwh by faith in JESUS and not in men who are unfaithful.

IF you don't read the Bible, you may never know. (they won't tell you what the Bible says)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Fact: You have made for yourself your own church based upon your own personal interpretations of the Scriptures and you have made yourself its head.

Did you NEVER READ what GOD SAYS "Christ is THE HEAD OF EVERY MAN"
1 Corinthians 11:3 But I want you to realize that the head of ...
1 Corinthians 11:3 Parallel Verses. New International Version But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, ...
biblehub.com/1_corinthians/11-3.htm
More results
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is ...
1 Corinthians 11:3 KJV: But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ


No time ever does He say that any man is to be head of any other man.

So who then DISOBEYED GOD ? --- those who you trust. they lied to you. they made themselves head over men,
and thus instead of JESUS leading them, the enemy does.

 

[Jan001]

As you said yourself,

you chose to trust men who failed* and lied*.(according to Scripture).

I trust Jesus, Who is Trustworthy.

*When any man's words/ teachings contradict Scripture,
even Paul said if it was himself or an angel,
don't accept them.
So Scripture is the Standard Yhwh Himself gave us to judge all things by.
NOT any man's teachings,
ESPECIALLY when man's teachings contradict Yhwh Himself.
As many of man's teachings contradict Yhwh Himself,
those men cannot be accepted, nor their teachings,
no matter if even the whole world is deceived (as it is).

You believe you know the truths that these writers of Scripture were teaching, but I don't think that you understand the truths that these writers of Scripture were teaching.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

You believe you know the truths that these writers of Scripture were teaching, but I don't think that you understand the truths that these writers of Scripture were teaching.

"You don't think"?
But you already ADMITTED you don't have faith in Jesus.
You already confessed you trust men instead.
GOD'S WORD says what I said and what I believe.
I THINK what GOD'S WORD SAYS IS TRUE. Not what the disobedient ones you trust say.
There's no reason you've given that what you think is in line with God's Word. Just the opposite. "IN FACT".
You are "in line with" men and men's traditions CONTRARY to God's Word.
You said so in your posts.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Read the Bible. Talk OFTEN with God the Father in heaven, by faith in Jesus Himself.
THEN
God can reveal the truth to you. He hides the truth/salvation from those men who are disobedient, who teach many things contrary to His Word.

Only be READING the BIBLE, then can God show you what THE BIBLE SAYS. (and HE is WILLING TO, for those who are willing ---- remember Jesus lamented over His people BECAUSE they were NOT WILLING to learn from Him - they rejected Him instead, just like men do today
who disobey His Word,
who are NOT WILLING to let Jesus teach them.

 

[Bob S]

"You don't think"?
But you already ADMITTED you don't have faith in Jesus.

Hold on there partner. I don't believe Jan ever wrote that. Just because she differs from what you think scripture is telling you does not mean that Jan is not a believer.

You already confessed you trust men instead.

Jan trusts the Apostles and those who sat at their feet. Is that wrong? Just because it differs from what you believe, which I personally do not believe, does not prove you are correct.

GOD'S WORD says what I said and what I believe.

Your opinion.

I THINK what GOD'S WORD SAYS IS TRUE. Not what the disobedient ones you trust say.

Prove that they were disobedient.

There's no reason you've given that what you think is in line with God's Word. Just the opposite. "IN FACT".
You are "in line with" men and men's traditions CONTRARY to God's Word.
You said so in your posts.

So, you have come to the conclusion, without weighing the facts found in the new testament, that the early followers were corrupt people because they started gathering together on the first day of the week. All the while Paul writes that the law was the ministry of death and was transient, the Torah was until Christ and we are not under Torah. Who really are the ones following the tradition of men? Gal 4:8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. 9 But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forcesd]">[d]? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? 10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

 

[Jan001]

"NO other foundation can any one lay than that which WAS laid" -- and what in your view - is that foundation?

The foundation of the Church was built upon Peter and the apostles and prophets with Jesus as its cornerstone/ROCK.

The foundation of the Church was not built upon the Bible.


Why do you think God changed Abram's name to Abraham? Why do you think God changed Jacob's name to Israel? Why do you think Jesus changed Simon's name to Peter?

Matthew 16:17-19
And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” rsv


Matthew 18:16-18
If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18 Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. rsv


John 20:19-23
On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” 20 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. 21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained. rsv

Matthew 28:18-20
And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe (obey) all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.” rsv

Ephesians 2:19-21
So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone (ROCK), 21 in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; rsv​

Luke 6:48
He is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently against that house, and could not shake it, for it was founded on the rock. nkjv

1 Corinthians 3:10-11
According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and another man is building upon it. Let each man take care how he builds upon it. 11 For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. rsv
​

The Church, it's hierarchy's/magisterium's teachings, are the support and foundation of the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ. The Bible is not the foundation of the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. niv

Luke 10:16
“Whoever listens to you (Church hierarchy/magisterium) listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.” niv

​

There is no Scripture that commands each person to go out and buy a Bible, read it, decide for himself what it means, and then build his own church according to his own personal interpretations of the Scriptures even though this is exactly what millions of people actually do today.

​

 

[W2L]

The foundation of the Church was built upon Peter and the apostles and prophets with Jesus as its cornerstone/ROCK.

The foundation of the Church was not built upon the Bible.


Why do you think God changed Abram's name to Abraham? Why do you think God changed Jacob's name to Israel? Why do you think Jesus changed Simon's name to Peter?

Matthew 16:17-19
And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” rsv


Matthew 18:16-18
If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18 Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. rsv


John 20:19-23
On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” 20 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. 21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained. rsv

Matthew 28:18-20
And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe (obey) all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.” rsv

Ephesians 2:19-21
So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone (ROCK), 21 in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; rsv​

Luke 6:48
He is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently against that house, and could not shake it, for it was founded on the rock. nkjv

1 Corinthians 3:10-11
According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and another man is building upon it. Let each man take care how he builds upon it. 11 For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. rsv
​

The Church, it's hierarchy's/magisterium's teachings, are the support and foundation of the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ. The Bible is not the foundation of the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. niv

Luke 10:16
“Whoever listens to you (Church hierarchy/magisterium) listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.” niv

​

There is no Scripture that commands each person to go out and buy a Bible, read it, decide for himself what it means, and then build his own church according to his own personal interpretations of the Scriptures even though this is exactly what millions of people actually do today.

​

What was the Popes name changed from?

 

[Jan001]

Rev 14 does not call death "the weekly Sabbath" --

And neither does the OT or NT.

And neither do the well-informed pro-sunday scholars.

Rather - Hebrews 4:9 says that the "Sabbath rest that REMAINS for the people of God" is the same one in Psalms 96 at the time of David!!

And neither does the RCC.

God says "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

not "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind die"

Death is not the weekly Sabbath.

There are no weeks measured in heaven. There are no days measured in heaven. There are no years measured in heaven. There is no actual weekly sabbath in heaven. Isaiah 66 is using poetic language. What Isaiah means is that all people in heaven will worship God without ceasing.

Each person who enters into heaven has entered into eternal sabbath/rest.

There is no measurement of time in eternity. It is always "today" in eternity. There is no yesterday or tomorrow in eternity.

I see no mention of the sabbath rest in Psalm 96. Perhaps you meant Isaiah 66?

Today in heaven is a sabbath/rest from all labor for all the people of God who are there in heaven. They rest in heaven now because their good deeds/labors on earth followed them into heaven.

All of God's people on earth hope to enter into their sabbath rest/heaven that remains for them to enter and their sabbath/rest is in heaven. They will enter into their sabbath rest after they die. This sabbath/rest is also known as eternal rest.

There is only Today in heaven. There are no weeks or years or yesterdays or tomorrows in heaven. All people in heaven will worship God without ceasing. Their presence in heaven is an act of worship.