If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

[Jan001]

1 John 5:1-4 (NKJV)
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

John in 1Jn 3 answers what the commandments are that Christians are to live by. Notice here is no 10 in the equation.

19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Believe and love, no wonder there are no New Testament requirements for observing the Israelite only Sabbath of the Old Covenant, we have no requirement. We live under an new and better covenant, praise the Lord.

Yes, praise the Lord!


Love does no harm to a neighbor. Anything that does harm to a neighbor is against the royal law of righteousness. The royal law is the law that a Christian must obey to the best of his ability if he desires to inherit eternal life after he dies.

James 2:8
If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; nkjv


Romans 13:10
Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. nkjv


Luke 13:23-27
Someone asked him, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?”
He said to them, 24 “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. 25 Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’
“But he will answer, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’
26 “Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’
27 “But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!’ niv


Matthew 7:20-23
Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ niv
​

 

[bugkiller]

If you oppose the Commandments of God in NT times - then answer this question -

In Eph 6:2 - "honor your father and mother for this is the first commandment with a promise" -- what Law - what unit of Law is it to be found that 'honor your father and mother" is the FIRST commandment with a promise??

First commandment where??

What exactly do you mean by oppose the Commandments of God?

Do you really mean keep the law given to Israel or your amended version?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

1 John 5:1-4 (NKJV)
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

Jer 31:31-33 NEW Covenant "I will write My LAW on their mind and on their heart"

1 John 5 does not say 'by this we know that we love the children of God - when we Love God AND love God".

As I think we all know.

For the longest time I had problems with the pronouns. Its obvious you have this problem.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

And -- James 2. The Apostles did tell us that to "break one is to break them all" because the obligatory element is based on the "HE WHO SAID" aspect of the commandments James 2

AND that the 5th commandment is the FIRST commandment in the still valid UNIT OF TEN -- with a promise

AND "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

AND that "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

AND that there REMAINS a SABBATH rest for the people of God - JUST as in David's time Heb 4

AND Rom 13
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,”
“You shall not murder,”
“You shall not steal,”
“You shall not bear false witness,”
“You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely,
“You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18
10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

AND Eph 6:2 as we saw on page one of this thread.

AND of course Matt 22 - all the Law on the Prophets based on "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 and "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18

AND - "Sabbath was MADE for mankind" Mark 2:27
from "Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23 (for all eternity in New Earth)
"there REMAINS therefore a SABBATH rest for the people of God" Heb 4
Rev 14:7 "Worship Him who made the heavens and the earth the seas and the springs of water"
- Sabbath after Sabbath - Gospel services - Acts 13
-Sabbath after Sabbath after Sabbath - Gospel services Acts 17:1-5
-Sabbath after Sabbath after Sabbath - Gospel services Acts 18:1-8[/QUOTE]You should believe your opening quote.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

So, can you tell me why it is that you folks have decided to keep only those commandments you want to while ignoring the rest?

Great question.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

"you folks"??

And by that do you mean --

The Baptist Confession of Faith, C.H. Spurgeon
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

And of course 7th day groups

Seventh-day Baptists
Seventh-day Adventists
(and 100's of others)

Why of course he doesn't mean those who promote keeping an amended version of the 10 C's.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

"you folks"??

And by that do you mean --

The Baptist Confession of Faith, C.H. Spurgeon
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

And of course 7th day groups

Seventh-day Baptists
Seventh-day Adventists
(and 100's of others)



The "all Christians are evil if they differ with me" is not a compelling solution.

Thread that BOTH the pro-sunday AND the pro-Bible-Sabbath group agree on the Bible Ten Commandments is because we do some of the basic Bible home work. For example - answer the simple question -

In Eph 6:2 - "honor your father and mother for this is the first commandment with a promise" -- what Law - what unit of Law is it to be found that 'honor your father and mother" is the FIRST commandment with a promise??

First commandment where??

Just why do you need to say 7th groups? It must be obvious the others in your list don't observe the 7th day.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

1 John 5:1-4 (NKJV)
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

Jer 31:31-33 NEW Covenant "I will write My LAW on their mind and on their heart"

1 John 5 does not say 'by this we know that we love the children of God - when we Love God AND love God".

As I think we all know.

==============================

Another very simple question - what moral law of God would Jeremiah have known about - and so also his readers in Jer 31 - that 'Defines sin' as Paul said in Romans 7, and Romans 3, and as James points out in James 2??

Another very easy Bible detail that both those pro-Sunday and also the pro-Bible-Sabbath groups were willing to admit to.

No your confusing and trying to conflate what was being said in Jer 31.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

As for the Ceremonial Law rich in animal sacrifices - both the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and also the "Westminster Confession of Faith" get the obvious Bible detail in Hebrews 10 that the entire system of animal sacrifices ended at the cross.

Claiming that Hebrews 10 is just another group of Christian-affirmed Bible details that one does not need to pay attention to - would not be a "Compelling solution" at that point.

That isn't all that ended at the Cross.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

You refuse to accept 1Jn3:19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

John is not telling us to observe days. We know we belong to the truth when we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. That is the formula for knowing we belong to the truth. Any church that teaches a different ''truth'' is a false church. Any church that teaches that we must do something, besides believing and loving one another, to be saved is a false church.

Amen!!!!!

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

You refuse to believe Gal 3

Galatians 3New International Version (NIV)
Faith or Works of the Law
3 You foolish Galatians!(Sabbath thumpers) Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? 4 Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.

10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”

18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.

23 Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

That is the Bible my friend, below is the prophet's rendering of salvation. Choose you this day who you will serve.

ELLEN WHITE WAS CLEAR: SALVATION BY SABBATH OBSERVANCE


"It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord. God says: "Them that honor Me I will honor." (6T 356.4)


"But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth." (RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4)

Sure enough, she did. And that is exactly what they're up to here - claiming we're not Christians.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

As for the Ceremonial Law rich in animal sacrifices - both the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and also the "Westminster Confession of Faith" get the obvious Bible detail in Hebrews 10 that the entire system of animal sacrifices ended at the cross.

Claiming that Hebrews 10 is just another group of Christian-affirmed Bible details that one does not need to pay attention to - would not be a "Compelling solution" at that point.

Heb 10
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’”

8 Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Thus the laws related to animal sacrifice ended:

How "obvious" is this point?

It is so obvious that both the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and also the "Westminster Confession of Faith" get the obvious Bible detail in Hebrews 10 which is that the sacrificial-system laws end at the cross, but not the moral law of God.

Bob, that was not the best dodge I have encountered from you

The fact that you consider the text of Hebrews 10 to be a 'dodge' --- noted.

However as noted in the post - not all pro-sunday groups go down that path. Many of them admit to the obvious details in Hebrews 10 ...

 

[BobRyan]

You refuse to accept 1Jn3:19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest .

Your accusation is without any evidence in fact.

On the contrary.

1 John 3:4 "sin IS transgression of the LAW" -

1 John 5:1-4 (NKJV)
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

Jer 31:31-33 NEW Covenant "I will write My LAW on their mind and on their heart"

1 John 5 does not say 'by this we know that we love the children of God - when we Love God AND love God".

As I think we all know.

 

[BobRyan]

You refuse to accept 2Cor3:
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 .

2 Cor 3 makes the case that the Law of God external and on tablets of stone - can only condemn - while at the same time Heb 10 and Jer 31:31-33 makes the case that that same law - written on the heart - is the New Covenant.

The point remains.

 

[BobRyan]

You refuse to believe Col 2: 16 .

An accusation that does not work in real life as we saw here -
Apr 24, 2015 #1

In Col 2 - we do not find Paul condemning the Bible, nor condemnation of eating, no condemnation of drinking - and no condemnation of God's Sabbath as we find it in the Ten Commandments.

Col 2 is about making up a rule and judging others of being guilty of sin because they differ with you, even if that invented rule is related to a Bible command.

But Col 2 is not an attempt by Paul to delete the scriptures. Rather Paul condemns the idea of making stuff up that is not in scripture at all - where the only source/authority is "man".

6 As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, 7 rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving.

8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.
11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflatedwithout cause by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.


Col 2
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (KJV)

Col 2
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)

=========================

In Mark 7:6-13 the Jews were simply "making stuff up" to get around one of the TEN Commandments - and of course Christ condemned them for that.

In Mark 2:19-22 they did it as well and Christ refuted their arguments.

Is it any wonder that in Col 2 the saints were contending with the same problem of man-made-doctrine and traditions -- "making stuff up"??

Not at all surprising.

 

[BobRyan]

You refuse to believe Gal 3

Not true -- at all

3 You foolish Galatians!(Sabbath thumpers) Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? 4 Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.

and then the verse carefully avoided by so many that quote Gal 3:6.
Gal 3
7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the Gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.”

Gal 1
6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the Gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

that's right folks - the Gospel preached to Abraham is the one we have with us today - because there is only ONE.

Not only that but all those who claim to be Christians today - can "be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham"


Gal 3
if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. 22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

===========================================
So then all the lost remain under the tutor - under the condemnation of the law - until faith comes. But once faith comes - they are "baptized into Christ" and then the law no longer serves the role of condemning the sinner to hell - but rather for the saint that SAME law -- the Jer 31:31-33 LAW is "Written on the heart and mind" as even Heb 8:6-10 clearly states.

 

[klutedavid]

Hello all.

Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law

The law actually makes us aware of our limitations, that is the sole purpose of the law.

God needs to announce what the problem is with mankind, and then take corrective steps.

By Grace you are saved, not by your own conceited and self righteous attempts at obeying
the written law (works). You know that you can't obey the law, why act as though you can
obey the law? Surely your thought life has already condemned you, why ignore the warning
signals. Where is the honesty here, will anyone tell the truth?

Whenever I look at the law I stand condemned, utterly cursed, without Christ I have no future.

 

[Shimshon]

Funny, cause when I look at the law I stand as part of my fathers, utterly blessed, with an irrevocable calling to remain attached to the people of my fathers all the while realizing the revelation of freedom we have in our Messiah. Do you really expect Jews to be self loathing as we come to our Messiah?

 

[Bob S]

Funny, cause when I look at the law I stand as part of my fathers, utterly blessed, with an irrevocable calling to remain attached to the people of my fathers all the while realizing the revelation of freedom we have in our Messiah. Do you really expect Jews to be self loathing as we come to our Messiah?

Sorry friend, your ancestors failed to keep the covenant God gave them at Sinai. Messiah has come and most Jews refuse to accept His coming, too bad. Paul, our Christian ambassador for Christ wrote the fact that the 10 commandments only offered death because those who pledged with blood to keep it didn't. Messiah gave Christians a gift, the Holy Spirit. He is our guide, He is complete. The 10 were just a few of the laws dealing with morality. They don't even deal with the law of love. They were temporary until Christ.

 

[Bob S]

Not true -- at all



and then the verse carefully avoided by so many that quote Gal 3:6.
Gal 3
7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the Gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.”

Gal 1
6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the Gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

that's right folks - the Gospel preached to Abraham is the one we have with us today - because there is only ONE.

Not only that but all those who claim to be Christians today - can "be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham"

5 Moses summoned all Israel and said:

Hear, Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today. Learn them and be sure to follow them. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 It was not with our ancestors that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today.

The covenant God had with Abraham was not the 10 commandment covenant as you can plainly see from the above verse.

Gal 3
if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. 22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

===========================================
So then all the lost remain under the tutor - under the condemnation of the law - until faith comes. But once faith comes - they are "baptized into Christ" and then the law no longer serves the role of condemning the sinner to hell - but rather for the saint that SAME law -- the Jer 31:31-33 LAW is "Written on the heart and mind" as even Heb 8:6-10 clearly states.

How can you possibly tell us that we are under the same covenant only now it is written on our heartswhen we can plainly read the following from Jer 31“The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors

As you can plainly see it will not be like the old covenant which we can plainly see it is not if we study the New Testament.