If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

[Jan001]

Not only that, but Sabbath is a FUNDAMENTAL issue. It is not a peripheral or a minor side issue. Sabbath is a part of creation itself. To suggest that the Messiah taught of "another day" is so absurd given there is zero evidence of this that it defies even the most basic of reason. All of the gospel accounts clearly, unmistakably show Yeshua observing Sabbath. He never once even hinted that Sabbath was done away with.

The Sabbath marked the end of the physical creation of the universe.
The Resurrection of Jesus Christ on the first day of the week is what made possible the spiritual re-creation of mankind. Therefore Christians gather together to celebrate/commemorate/worship on Sundays as commanded by Jesus to His apostles.

Of course, Yeshua/Jesus observed the Sabbath before He died. He was a Jew and He kept all the commands of the OC perfectly until He died.

But, after His resurrection, He commanded His followers to gather together to worship God on the first day of the week. We know this to be historical fact which I have documented in previous posts.

The Gentiles were not commanded to keep the Sabbath of the Jews.

In Jesus' kingdom, there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile or man or woman. Baptism is necessary for both Jewish converts and Gentile converts to the kingdom of God/Christianity and it this baptism as commanded in Matthew 28:18-20 which replaces the circumcision of the males only in the Jewish religion.

Circumcision was the gateway into Judaism and Baptism is the gateway into the kingdom of God/Church/Household of God.

Acts 15:4-10
When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they declared all that God had done with them. 5 But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up, and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to charge them to keep the law of Moses.”
6 The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter. 7 And after there had been much debate, Peter rose and said to them, “Brethren, you know that in the early days God made choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 And God who knows the heart bore witness to them, giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us; 9 and he made no distinction between us and them, but cleansed their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why do you make trial of God by putting a yoke upon the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe that we shall be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”rsv


Romans 10:12
For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all and bestows his riches upon all who call upon him. rsv

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. rsv

Colossians 3:11
Here there cannot be Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scyth′ian, slave, free man, but Christ is all, and in all. rsv
​

Why do you make trial of God by insisting that Christians keep the Sabbath? Instead of being saved by keeping the Law of Moses and its Sabbath laws, the Jewish converts to Christianity shall be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus just as all the Greek converts will be saved.

Jewish Christians became like Greek Christians in that the Sabbath laws for the Jews of the OC did not apply to them in the New Covenant/Kingdom of God/Church.

 

[BobRyan]

I said that Christ never argues his Word against the Father - rather He claims that He speaks ONLY the words of the Father - and none of His own.

In the Bible - God says says "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" - but you say "The Lord never once commands Sabbath and neither does any apostle."

In the Bible - God says "The Sabbath was MADE for mankind" Mark 2:27 but you say "The Lord never once commands Sabbath and neither does any apostle."


In the Bible God says "There REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Heb 4 -- but you say "The Lord never once commands Sabbath and neither does any apostle."


In the Bible God says "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" -- but you say "The Lord never once commands Sabbath and neither does any apostle."

In the NT there is not a single quote of the 3rd commandment - saying not to take God's name in vain -- and you say "The Lord never once commands Sabbath and neither does any apostle." -- as if the Sabbath is like it. But you are wrong in that the Sabbath commandment IS quoted in the NT - in places like Rev 14:7 and in Hebrews 4.

But the 3rd commandment (to not take God's name in vain) is never quoted at all in the NT - which means "nothing" of course since it is merely a "fluff rule" and not actual Bible exegesis that invents the idea of "deleting whatever is not repeating"

Rev 14:17 - -the Sabbath commandment quoted.
Acts 14:15 - the Sabbath Commandment quoted.
Acts 4:24 - the Sabbath Commandment quoted
Rev 5:13 - the Sabbath Commandment quoted
Rev 10:6 - the Sabbath Commandment quoted
Heb 4:9 - the Sabbath Commandment - commanded
Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath MADE for MANKIND"
Is 66:23 for all eternity after the cross "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship"

Not even ONE example of that for the 3rd commandment to "not take God's name in vain"!!

In real life we have "Do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW of God"

"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:7

And in Rom 8:4-9 it is only the lost that are at war with the Law of God.

Hence 1 John 5:3-4.

1 John 5
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

Mark 7
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

John 14:15 "IF you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments"[/QUOTE]

In Matthew 19 which you quoted, please note that when Jesus was specifically asked what this person must do in order to have/enter eternal life, Jesus did not state that all of the Israelite's Ten Commandments were necessary to obey in

He did affirm the Ten Commandments never arguing "for just part of them" -- and flatly condemning the 'just part of them' idea in Matt 5.

He did NOT mention "Love God with all your heart" nor even "Do not take God's name in vain" in Matt 19 since the point was to focus on the commandments dealing with "man's duty to man" -- the last six.

you said: "Jesus did not command the person to keep any commands other than these six in "

you then said -- "Jesus had not yet finished the OC when He spoke the following in Matthew 23. Jesus commands His Jewish followers to do what their magisterium tells them to do, "

As if ignoring God's commandments (all but those listed in Matt 19) and yet keeping all the man-made commands -- was the teaching of Jesus!!!!

You also said --

1. Of course Jesus Christ, a Jew, kept the Sabbath on Saturday. He had not yet finished/fulfilled/completed the Old Covenant, which He did indeed fulfill/finish/complete by His own death (His perfect offering of Himself to His Father) on the cross. Before Jesus was crucified and had risen from the dead, He stated the following.

Matthew 5:17
“Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them. rsv​

and He also commands them to not follow the maginsterium's examples of bad behavior

As if to undo all the self-conflicted conclusions you came to - prior to that. For in that statement you admit that in no way could Jesus have been deleting the Bible in Matt 19 for the sake of the Jew he was then talking to.

Even your own pro-sunday scholarship knows enough not to get to that level of self-conflicted statements so then you cannot blame them for the problems in the model you have chosen.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Bob S]

The Sabbath marked the end of the physical creation of the universe.
The Resurrection of Jesus Christ on the first day of the week is what made possible the spiritual re-creation of mankind. Therefore Christians gather together to celebrate/commemorate/worship on Sundays as commanded by Jesus to His apostles.

Of course, Yeshua/Jesus observed the Sabbath before He died. He was a Jew and He kept all the commands of the OC perfectly until He died.

But, after His resurrection, He commanded His followers to gather together to worship God on the first day of the week. We know this to be historical fact which I have documented in previous posts.

The Gentiles were not commanded to keep the Sabbath of the Jews.

In Jesus' kingdom, there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile or man or woman. Baptism is necessary for both Jewish converts and Gentile converts to the kingdom of God/Christianity and it this baptism as commanded in Matthew 28:18-20 which replaces the circumcision of the males only in the Jewish religion.

Circumcision was the gateway into Judaism and Baptism is the gateway into the kingdom of God/Church/Household of God.

Acts 15:4-10
When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they declared all that God had done with them. 5 But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up, and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to charge them to keep the law of Moses.”
6 The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter. 7 And after there had been much debate, Peter rose and said to them, “Brethren, you know that in the early days God made choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 And God who knows the heart bore witness to them, giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us; 9 and he made no distinction between us and them, but cleansed their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why do you make trial of God by putting a yoke upon the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe that we shall be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”rsv


Romans 10:12
For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all and bestows his riches upon all who call upon him. rsv

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. rsv

Colossians 3:11
Here there cannot be Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scyth′ian, slave, free man, but Christ is all, and in all. rsv
​

Why do you make trial of God by insisting that Christians keep the Sabbath? Instead of being saved by keeping the Law of Moses and its Sabbath laws, the Jewish converts to Christianity shall be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus just as all the Greek converts will be saved.

Jewish Christians became like Greek Christians in that the Sabbath laws for the Jews of the OC did not apply to them in the New Covenant/Kingdom of God/Church.

Great post Jan. There is only one part that I question and that is: "The Sabbath marked the end of the physical creation of the universe." There is no indication that the rest God had on the day after creation was a Sabbath for mankind nor that it continued weekly. I know you didn't write that it did, but I want to clarify that fact.

 

[Dkh587]

But, after His resurrection, He commanded His followers to gather together to worship God on the first day of the week.

This is a flat-out lie. Please provide scripture, and not "historical facts" that are not scripture.

 

[BobRyan]

There is no indication that the rest God had on the day after creation was a Sabbath for mankind nor that it continued weekly.

Until you read the actual Bible.

Ex 20
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. ... 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Gen 2
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

 

[BobRyan]

But, after His resurrection, He commanded His followers to gather together to worship God on the first day of the week. We know this to be historical fact which I have documented in previous posts

Wouldn't it be nice if you had even one text to prove your statement true? As if the bible writers themselves intended to tell of such a fact?

Imagine NT writers - the Apostles - the church leadership introducing "week-day-1 as the Lord's day" in the actual Bible!!

Imagine NT writers -- the Apostles - introducing the "we worship every week-day-1 because it is the Lord's Day" in the actual Bible!

Imagine NT writers saying "we transferred the binding authority and solemnity of the Sabbath Commandment - the seventh-day of the week... to week-day-1 because we think week-day-1 should be called the Lord's Day" --- in the actual Bible!!

 

[BobRyan]

instead of all that - what we actually have -- is this.




1. There is not one NT or OT text saying "week day 1 is the Holy Day of the LORD" but we DO have that for Sabbath in Is 58:13. (AND we do not have ONE text in the NT or OT that says "week day 1 is the LORD's Day)

2. There is not ONE text in the NT or OT that says that "they met EVERY week-day-1 for gospel teaching" for both Jews AND gentiles but we DO have that for Sabbath in Acts 18:4-6.

3. There is not ONE text in the NT or OT that says "they met week-day-1 after week-day-1 " for anything - but we DO have that in Acts 13 and Acts 17 regarding Sabbath for both Jews AND Gentiles.

4. There is not ONE text in the NT or OT saying "from week day 1 to week day 1 shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" - but we DO have that in Is 66:23 for the Sabbath.

5. There is not ONE text in the NT or OT saying "the Son of man is LORD of week day 1" but we DO have that in the NT for the Sabbath in Mark 2:28.

6. There is not ONE text in the NT saying "there REMAINS therefore a week-day 1 rest for the people of God" but we DO have that for Sabbath in Heb 4.

7. There is not ONE text in NT or OT saying "remember week-day-1 to keep it holy" but we DO have that in Ex 20:8 for the Sabbath.

8. There is NOT ONE text in NT or OT saying it is ok by God if we bend/edit/break/ignore one of the TEN Commandments - but we DO have condemnation for doing such a thing in the NT -- by the Words of Christ Himself! Mark 7:6-13


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture.

 

[bugkiller]

I said that Christ never argues his Word against the Father - rather He claims that He speaks ONLY the words of the Father - and none of His own.

in Christ,

Bob

Fine but you refuse to accept Jer 31:31-33 as written.


bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Fine but you refuse to accept Jer 31:31-33 as written.
bugkiller

1. Glad you now say that the Bible support for the seventh day Sabbath - by contrast to week-day-1 tradition,,, is "fine"

2. contrary to your empty accusation - we all see my acceptance of Jeremiah 31 in the quote of it we have in Hebrews 8 -- in the OP --

from page ONE

====================================
Ex 20:6 "love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14:15 "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"

So may argue that all that was before the cross - so pay no attention to that part of "scripture" -- it is not for Christians. Yet "Chrisitan" means - follower of Christ and Christ is speaking both in John 14 - and in Exodus 20.



By contrast to that speculative conclusion we have --

"what matters is KEEPiNG the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

So then what about Christ coming up with a different set of commandments - that are not those of God? Not those of God the Father and thereby negating the Commandments of God to replace them with other commandments - that come from Christ? Is that what we find in the New Testament?

Not according to Jesus' words in John's Gospel.

John 5:19 "19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner."

John 8:28 "28 So Jesus said, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.

John 12:49 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

John 14: "10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works."

Which is why in John 14:15 we see this
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

Instead of "keep My Commandments - not My Father's commandments - just mine"

And it is why John 15:10 does not say that either

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

And of course God the Father gave Jesus the ministry of "Savior" to the world such that Jesus prayed "Father if it be possible let this cup pass from me - nevertheless not my will - but Thy will be done"

John said - Jesus kept His Father's Commandments.

John said - we should do as Jesus did.
1 John 2: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

==================================================
Jesus is the One that gave us the TEN Commandments - they were spoken by HiM as we see in the NEW Covenant

Heb 8 (And Jer 31:31-33)
6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

Exegesis demands that the moral law of God written on the mind and heart in Jer 31:31-33 is the one that Jeremiah and his readers knew.


Do you view Jesus as opposed to the Father or the two and the Holy Spirit are "ONE God" in your/our monotheistic religion?

==========================

If you oppose the Commandments of God in NT times - then answer this question -

In Eph 6:2 - "honor your father and mother for this is the first commandment with a promise" -- what Law - what unit of Law is it to be found that 'honor your father and mother" is the FIRST commandment with a promise??

First commandment where??

Two simple questions - easy answer to each one - Yesterday at 11:09 AM #383
Resolves the entire debate on this thread.

 

[bugkiller]

1. Glad you now say that the Bible support for the seventh day Sabbath - by contrast to week-day-1 tradition,,, is "fine"

2. contrary to your empty accusation - we all see my acceptance of Jeremiah 31 in the quote of it we have in Hebrews 8 -- in the OP --

from page ONE

No sir we don't see your acceptance of Jer 31 or Heb 8. We do have your partial quotes trying to make ths sCripture say something it doesn't to support you false doctrine.

====================================
Ex 20:6 "love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14:15 "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"

So may argue that all that was before the cross - so pay no attention to that part of "scripture" -- it is not for Christians. Yet "Chrisitan" means - follower of Christ and Christ is speaking both in John 14 - and in Exodus 20.



By contrast to that speculative conclusion we have --

"what matters is KEEPiNG the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

So then what about Christ coming up with a different set of commandments - that are not those of God? Not those of God the Father and thereby negating the Commandments of God to replace them with other commandments - that come from Christ? Is that what we find in the New Testament?

Not according to Jesus' words in John's Gospel.

John 5:19 "19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner."

John 8:28 "28 So Jesus said, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.

John 12:49 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

John 14: "10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works."

Which is why in John 14:15 we see this
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

Instead of "keep My Commandments - not My Father's commandments - just mine"

And it is why John 15:10 does not say that either

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Where do you get that either say keep My Father's commandments?

And of course God the Father gave Jesus the ministry of "Savior" to the world such that Jesus prayed "Father if it be possible let this cup pass from me - nevertheless not my will - but Thy will be done"

John said - Jesus kept His Father's Commandments.

John said - we should do as Jesus did.
1 John 2: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

==================================================
Jesus is the One that gave us the TEN Commandments - they were spoken by HiM as we see in the NEW Covenant

Nope!!

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. JN 1

Heb 8 (And Jer 31:31-33)
6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

Exegesis demands that the moral law of God written on the mind and heart in Jer 31:31-33 is the one that Jeremiah and his readers knew.[/quote]Nope!!! See the big blue words above.


Do you view Jesus as opposed to the Father or the two and the Holy Spirit are "ONE God" in your/our monotheistic religion?[/quote]No! But I do believe the NC is exactly that - NEW!

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Where do you get that either say keep My Father's commandments?

Hint -


Heb 8 (And Jer 31:31-33)
6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He (Jesus) is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He (Jesus) says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I (Jesus) made with their fathers
On the day when I (Jesus) took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

Exegesis demands that the moral law of God written on the mind and heart in Jer 31:31-33 is the one that Jeremiah and his readers knew. .


Do you view Jesus as opposed to the Father or the two and the Holy Spirit are "ONE God" in your/our monotheistic religion?

you should.

At least Consider it.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Travis93]

Only a false prophet would add to or remove God's commandments, and teach others to do so.

Deuteronomy 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
Deuteronomy 13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
Deuteronomy 13:2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
Deuteronomy 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deuteronomy 13:4 Ye shall walk after the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
Deuteronomy 13:5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the Lord thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

 

[Jan001]

Moses: https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=KJV&quicksearch=moses&begin=47&end=73

Revelation 15:3
And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain

2 Corinthians 3:15
But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

This is not a compliment. The unbelieving Jews to this very day do not accept that Jesus Christ is their own Messiah. They do not discern from their own Law of Moses and from their own prophets that their Messiah has already come.

Acts 14:1-3
Now at Ico′nium they entered together into the Jewish synagogue, and so spoke that a great company believed, both of Jews and of Greeks. 2 But the unbelieving Jews stirred up the Gentiles and poisoned their minds against the brethren. 3 So they remained for a long time, speaking boldly for the Lord, who bore witness to the word of his grace, granting signs and wonders to be done by their hands. rsv​

 

[Jan001]

Indeed, the contrast is shown clearly right here. The law Paul speaks against isn't God's own laws, it's your own sinful nature.
Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Romans 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Paul solves his problem of sin.

1 Corinthians 9:24-27
Do you not know that in a race all the runners compete, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. 25 Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. 26 Well, I do not run aimlessly, I do not box as one beating the air; 27 but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified. rsv
​

Peter gives instructions on how to escape the corruption of the mind and body and soul.

2 Peter 1:3-11
His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, 4 by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, that through these you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of passion, and become partakers of the divine nature. 5 For this very reason make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, 6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, 7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For whoever lacks these things is blind and shortsighted and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 10 Therefore, brethren, be the more zealous to confirm your call and election, for if you do this you will never fall; 11 so there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. rsv​

 

[Bob S]

Only a false prophet would add to or remove God's commandments, and teach others to do so.

2 Corinthians 3:7-11New International Version (NIV)
The Greater Glory of the New Covenant
7 Now if the ministry that brought death (the 10 commandments), which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit(Comforter) be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory(temporary) came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

So Travis, are you sure You really want to write that Paul was false prophet? The 10 commandments were temporary laws given only to Israel. When Israel broke the covenant relationship with God of course the covenant with all its requirements were dissolved. AS you can plainly see the 10 commandments, which were the guide for Israel, have been replaced with Jesus' gift, the Holy Spirit.

John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 16:7
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

 

[BobRyan]

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture -- in this case - at odds with the Commandments of God, the Word of God... "Moses said" .

Only a false prophet would add to or remove God's commandments, and teach others to do so.

Deuteronomy 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
Deuteronomy 13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
Deuteronomy 13:2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
Deuteronomy 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deuteronomy 13:4 Ye shall walk after the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
Deuteronomy 13:5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the Lord thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

As we see in Isaiah 8:20 "To the LAW and to the Testimony - if they speak not according to this Word - there is no light in them"

"31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law." Rom 3:31

 

[BobRyan]

2 Corinthians 3:7-11New International Version (NIV)
The Greater Glory of the New Covenant
7 Now if the ministry that brought death , which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness

It is the same LAW but in a different location: In the New Covenant it is not merely external - rather it is "written on the heart" -- that Law that Jeremiah and his readers would have known as the moral Law of God - Law that defines sin as even Romans 2:19-21 instructs -- and so also does 1 John 3:4 demand it.

NEW Covenant "I WILL WRITE MY LAW on their heart and mind" -- Jeremiah 31, Hebrews 8.

Thus ends the fallacy - of "imaginary law to be made up latter - written on stone instead of the Commandments on stone as written by the finger of God".

It is a not a "different Law" in that location -- rather it is a different location for that Law as known to Jeremiah.

 

[Bob S]

2 Corinthians 3:7-11New International Version (NIV)
The Greater Glory of the New Covenant
7 Now if the ministry that brought death , which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness

It is the same LAW but in a different location:

That is interesting. Same law? 10 commandments = the ministry of death. Same law?????
When you write what you do you are telling us that Paul was a liar. You are telling us that the 10 commandments were not temporary and that they were not the ministry of death. Who would want the ministry of death written on their hearts. Sorry to tell you, but your theory is bologna.

 

[Jan001]

Paul even says that the Torah is HOLY. So then, why is their such a repudiation by many who are called by Messiah's name?? Because Paul also tells us that the flesh is at WAR with G-d. We are born with a rebellious nature and that nature wants NOTHING to do with being Holy. As a result our natural tendency is to reject the things of G-d. Its far easier to just have Jesus as your saviour than it is to walk upright and holy. To say not my will and my way Father but your will which you so mercifully laid out for us in your Torah!

Scripture shows us that there were two laws of God and that one of these laws is valid for Christians to obey.

These two laws were the written Law of Moses which was carved on stone and the Law of Liberty of God which is spiritually written on people's hearts.

The written Law of Moses carved on stone was not the same law as the Law of Liberty of God which is spiritually written on people's hearts.

The spiritual Law of Liberty is so-called because it does not contain the oppressive written Law of Moses which was carved on stone.

The spirit of the OC Law of Moses is the same law as the NC Law of Liberty of God.


Scripture shows us exactly what is the spirit of the Law of Moses. It is the spirit of the Law of Moses (the Law of Liberty) which will always be required of all people, both Jew and non-Jew.

The spirit of the Law of Moses is that I must love the Lord my God with all my heart, and with all my soul, and with all my strength, and with all my mind; and my neighbor as myself. If I do these things that are commanded in the spirit of the Law of Moses (aka the Law of Liberty) until I die, I will then be approved to inherit eternal life.

Luke 10:25-28
And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? How do you read?” 27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And he said to him, “You have answered right; do this, and you will live.” rsv

James 2:8-13
If you really fulfil the royal law, according to the scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well. 9 But if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it. 11 For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” said also, “Do not kill.” If you do not commit adultery but do kill, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty. 13 For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy; yet mercy triumphs over judgment. rsv​

Christians are under the Law of Liberty of God. Christians are not under the written Law of Moses. God has spiritually written His Law of Liberty on all Christians' hearts. God does not give Christians the written Law of Moses which was carved on stone. 2 Corinthians 3

Christians are under the spirit of the Law of Moses, but they are not under the written Law of Moses carved on stone with all its sabbaths, new moons, and festivals requirements. Colossians 2:9-17

Even some of the Gentiles obeyed the spirit of the Law of Moses.

Romans 2:14-16
When Gentiles who have not the (written) law (of Moses) do by nature what the (spirit of) the law (of Moses) requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law (of Moses). 15 They show that what the (spirit of the) law (of Moses) requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. rsv​

The following is a prophecy for the Israelites about the spiritual Law of Liberty of God which will replace the unbearable yoke of the written Law of Moses carved on stone.

Jeremiah 31:33
But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. rsv
​

Jesus Christ fulfilled this prophecy of Jeremiah. The following was written after Jesus' resurrection and ascension, but before 70 A.D. when Jerusalem, its temple, and the Jews living there were destroyed.

Hebrews 8:4-10
Now if he were on earth, he would not be a priest at all, since there are priests who offer gifts according to the law. 5 They serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly sanctuary; for when Moses was about to erect the tent, he was instructed by God, saying, “See that you make everything according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain.” 6 But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry which is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion for a second.

8 For he finds fault with them when he says:

OLD COVENANT PROPHECY

“The days will come, says the Lord,
when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah;
9 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers
on the day when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of the land of Egypt;
for they did not continue in my covenant,
and so I paid no heed to them, says the Lord.

10 This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, says the Lord:
I will put my laws into their minds,
and write them on their hearts,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people." rsv
​

Jesus Christ/God made a new covenant with the Israelites. The written Law of Moses carved on stone is not part of His New Covenant. The spirit of the Law of Moses is embodied in Jesus' New Covenant as the Law of Liberty of God. We are all under the NC now and so we must obey the Law of Liberty of God which is spiritually written on our hearts. Romans 10:12, Acts 15:8-10

James 2:8
If you really fulfil the royal law, according to the scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well. rsv
​

The Israelites needed specific instructions and training on how to be obedient to God because they were a stiff-necked and rebellious people. The written Law of Moses was given to them because of their disobedience in the desert. They were given this written letter of the Law of Moses carved on stone because of their disobedience. Exodus 32:9, Acts 7:51

However, the spirit of the Law of Moses is shown in the following passage.

Matthew 19:16-19
And behold, one came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?” 17 And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to him, “Which?” And Jesus said, “You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, 19 Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” rsv
​

Please note that Jesus does not require the Sabbath observance in His NC Law of Liberty. The Sabbath observance was required in the OC Law of Moses to train them in godliness, but the Sabbath observance is not required by Christians under Jesus' NC Law of Liberty.

Jews did become Christians, but Christians did not become Jews and so Christians were not required to keep the Sabbaths of the Jews. Christians are not bound and cannot be bound to the written Law of Moses carved on stone. The written Law of Moses does not apply to Christians. The spirit of the Law of Moses (Law of Liberty) written on each person's heart does apply to Christians.


A person may observe a personal sabbath/rest on any day of the week if he so chooses, but he is still obligated to assemble with Christians on the first day of the week for public worship to commemorate their spiritual rebirth.

Hebrews 10:23-26
Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful; 24 and let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, 25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near. 26 For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries. rsv​

Romans 14:1-6
As for the man who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not for disputes over opinions. 2 One believes he may eat anything, while the weak man eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who abstains, and let not him who abstains pass judgment on him who eats; for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Master is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteems one day as better than another, while another man esteems all days alike. Let every one be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. He also who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God; while he who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. rsv
​

Christians are to be living stones/examples to others, by showing them by their holy example that they obey the Law of Liberty of God which was spiritually written upon their hearts. Their good example will cause people to desire to come to the knowledge of the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ and be saved. 1 Peter 2:4-5

2 Corinthians 3:2-4
You yourselves are our letter of recommendation, written on your hearts, to be known and read by all men; 3 and you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 4 Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God. rsv​

 

[Jan001]

I am just an ignorant man, struggling to get through this life, so please accept my humble opinion as just that, humble.

I do not know everything, I will not tell anyone to obey or disobey anything. I will instead follow Romans 14 as best I can. Its all I can do.

Its my humble opinion that Gods commands are not always easy, but this doesn't mean they are burdensome. Look at what Paul says in Romans. He says that in his mind he desires to do what is right, (and this shows that its not a burden to him because he desires to do what is right), howsoever he also says that he doesn't always do what he desires to do. "Woe is him! Who will save this wretched man?"

We see from pauls words, that to him, failing to keep Gods commands is more of a burden than to keep them. Keeping Gods commands would give him gerat joy I think. Its the failing part that burdens him.

Now, lets consider this. Why would we want to add to that burden, by adding more commands than is needed? Its not a burden to keep them but to fail! So then, lets consider romans 14 now. The kingdom is about peace, righteousness and joy in the spirit. If a man is living a moral life, free from lust and lies, and he is walking in love which fulfills the law, why then do we want to add to his burden by adding more things to him? Its not a burden to keep but to fail. God has given us liberty from the law, hasn't he? No one in their right mind would disagree with doing what is just and good, or with love, so why add the Sabbath to them? THe argument and division caused by this topic alone is burdensome isn't it? Who likes to argue all day? Isnt peace and joy in the spirit better?

I think you are a good teacher.