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If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

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bbbbbbb

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yes - that law defines sin

So also "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 -- the moral law defines what is and is not moral - what is sin.

Okay, so where is the moral law to be found? Paul evidently was ignorant of it because he never referred to it; rather, he referred only to the LAW, which constituted each and every commandment given by God to His covenant people, the Jews.
 
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Sophrosyne

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Okay, so where is the moral law to be found? Paul evidently was ignorant of it because he never referred to it; rather, he referred only to the LAW, which constituted each and every commandment given by God to His covenant people, the Jews.
Ask them what is the law of sin and death while you are at it.
 
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Jan001

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It is readers' interpretations of what the original authors meant to portray which differ.
 
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Jan001

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No dice, but good spin. What you posted doesn't line up with the Bible.

bugkiller

It is true that my interpretations of what the original authors meant to teach do not agree with your own interpretations.
 
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Jan001

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Correct!The Bible won't support this statement.Not according to my Bible. Such a notion is salvation by works. No I don't promote sin.Read what your quote actually says.

bugkiller


1 Timothy 5:8
But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. nkjv​

What do you think this verse means?

If a believer neglects to love members of his own household and shows his neglect by refusing to help them when they need his help, is he still a believer in Jesus Christ? Paul states this believer has denied the faith and he is now worse than an unbeliever!

Have his evil works now made him ineligible to inherit eternal life?

We know that unbelievers do not inherit eternal life, so do Christians who are worse than unbelievers still inherit eternal life?

Titus 1:16
They profess to know God, but in works they deny
Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work. nkjv

Revelation 2:13
I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. nkjv

Matthew 10:33
But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven. nkjv
Works matter!
 
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Jan001

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The Sabbath laws were never legally binding on non-Jews.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Works matter, indeed, but to whom and for what purposes?
 
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BobRyan

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The Sabbath laws were never legally binding on non-Jews.

That statement applied to the moral law of God - the TEN commandments -- is a recent innovation in man-made tradition.
By direct contrast - the TEN Commandments have long been accepted as the moral law of God - that defines what sin is and to break one is to break them all.

"From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL Mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23
"the Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND - not mankind MADE for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27
"there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of GOD" Heb 4.
"Honor your Father and Mother - for this is the FIRST Commandment with a promise" - FIRST in the TEN Commandments. Eph 6:2
"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
 
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BobRyan

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yes - that law defines sin

So also "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 -- the moral law defines what is and is not moral - what is sin.

hence this question that many have been anxious to avoid


In Eph 6:2 - "honor your father and mother for this is the first commandment with a promise" -- what Law - what unit of Law is it to be found that 'honor your father and mother" is the FIRST commandment with a promise??

First commandment where??

Okay, so where is the moral law to be found?

Paul evidently found it in that question above that you are not answering. For in it the 5th Commandment is the "First commandment WITH a promise"
 
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bbbbbbb

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Wow! Paul was really messed up, wasn't he? He conflated the first and the fifth commandments. Even I know that those are entirely different commandments.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Yep. Those Confucians in China have faithfully taught and obeyed all of the Ten Commandments throughout their history, haven't they?
 
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Jan001

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Works matter, indeed, but to whom and for what purposes?

To whom?
All people.

For what purpose?
The persons who do not do good works (bear fruits) with love to help their families and their neighbors will not be approved to inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 13:1-9; 1 Peter 4:8

Matthew 21:43
Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. nkjv

1 Timothy 5:8
But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. nkjv

Matthew 25:32-46
All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” nkjv​


The people who do evil works will not inherit the kingdom of God.

John 5:28-29
Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. nkjv​



 
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Jan001

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The Ten Commandments were examples of how the Israelites were to show love for God and love for their neighbors.

And, to break one commandment is not actually literally the same as breaking all of them and this can be a subject for another email if you desire.


What is the moral law? Is it that NT Christians must obey the OT Sabbath laws?

Luke 10:25-28
5 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?
27 So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’
28 And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.” nkjv​

Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
nkjv

James 2:8
If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well;
nkjv

1 John 4:8
He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. nkjv

1 John 3:10
In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. nkjv
Obedience to OT Sabbath laws is not commanded for NT Christians.
"From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL Mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

Some persons never ever worship God. Some persons do not ever choose to worship God. God gives each person free will to choose for himself whom he will serve.

From Sabbath to Sabbath simply means that all the people of God will worship God forever with everything that they do. Nothing will be done for selfish reasons.


Romans 14:5-7
One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. nkjv​

"the Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND - not mankind MADE for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27

Context is important for this passage in order to understand Jesus' original teaching. The Jews were complaining that good works were being done on the Sabbath.

Matthew 12:12
Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.” nkjv

John 7:22-23
Moses therefore gave you circumcision (not that it is from Moses, but from the fathers), and you circumcise a man on the Sabbath. 23 If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath, so that the law of Moses should not be broken, are you angry with Me because I made a man completely well on the Sabbath? nkjv
"there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of GOD" Heb 4.

This Sabbath rest that remains will actually be eternal life with God for those who love Him.

Hebrews 4:8-10
For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His. nkjv​

"Honor your Father and Mother - for this is the FIRST Commandment with a promise" - FIRST in the TEN Commandments. Eph 6:2

This really has nothing to do with the Sabbath rest except that those who did not honor their parents while they were on earth will not enjoy eternal life with God in heaven.

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

The Saturday Sabbath requirements that were commanded under the Levitical priesthood are not valid for the Christians who are under the Melchizedek priesthood.

Hebrews 7:11-16
Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. 13 For He of whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no man has officiated at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood. 15 And it is yet far more evident if, in the likeness of Melchizedek, there arises another priest 16 who has come, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment, but according to the power of an endless life. nkjv

What is important for people to do now so that they will be approved to enter into eternal life? Must they obey the OT Sabbath laws?

Obedience to the OT Sabbath laws is not commanded for New Covenant Christians.

Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love. nkjv

Matthew 19:16-19
Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?
Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ nkjv

Please note that Jesus never ever commands that His followers obey the Sabbath laws in order to inherit eternal life.

So, why do you demand obedience to the OT Sabbath laws when Jesus does not?



 
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bbbbbbb

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Thank you for affirming that works matter to all people. They certainly don't matter to God, who knows the heart.
 
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BobRyan

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As Luke 10 points out - both Christ and the Jews were in agreement before the cross that Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart" and Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself" are the two unmovable foundations upon which not only God's Law but all of scripture - the Law AND the Prophets - are based. (See Matt 22 as well).

Neither of them argued that scripture is deleted by those two commandments. Rather scripture is immovable - and rock solid on that foundation.

hence - Eph 6:2 "the FIRST commandment with a promise" affirms the same unit of TEN.
 
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BobRyan

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Heb 7:11-16 is a great example of a text that does NOT say "The Saturday Sabbath requirements that were commanded under the Levitical priesthood are not valid for the Christians "

Rather it says that the LAW that determines the priesthood - who is eligible to be priest and who is not - is changed with a change of priesthood from that of sinful men on earth - to that of our one Priest - Christ - in heaven. "For if HE were on earth He would NOT be a priest at ALL" Heb 8.
 
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Cribstyl

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All scripture is given by inspiration from God - 2 Tim 3:16

1050 Commandments in the NT and the 600+ in the OT - all given to us by God.
Why did Christ distinguish between His commandments and the ten commandments? (try answering the question)
 
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BobRyan

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All scripture is given by inspiration from God - 2 Tim 3:16

1050 Commandments in the NT and the 600+ in the OT - all given to us by God.


Ex 20:6 "love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14:15 "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"

So may argue that all that was before the cross - so pay no attention to that part of "scripture" -- it is not for Christians. Yet "Chrisitan" means - follower of Christ and Christ is speaking both in John 14 - and in Exodus 20.



By contrast to that speculative conclusion we have --

"what matters is KEEPiNG the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

So then what about Christ coming up with a different set of commandments - that are not those of God? Not those of God the Father and thereby negating the Commandments of God to replace them with other commandments - that come from Christ? Is that what we find in the New Testament?

Not according to Jesus' words in John's Gospel.

John 5:19 "19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner."

John 8:28 "28 So Jesus said, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.

John 12:49 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

John 14: "10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works."

Which is why in John 14:15 we see this
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

Instead of "keep My Commandments - not My Father's commandments - just mine"

And it is why John 15:10 does not say that either

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

And of course God the Father gave Jesus the ministry of "Savior" to the world such that Jesus prayed "Father if it be possible let this cup pass from me - nevertheless not my will - but Thy will be done"

John said - Jesus kept His Father's Commandments.

John said - we should do as Jesus did.
1 John 2: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

==================================================
Jesus is the One that gave us the TEN Commandments - they were spoken by HiM as we see in the NEW Covenant

Heb 8 (And Jer 31:31-33)
6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

Exegesis demands that the moral law of God written on the mind and heart in Jer 31:31-33 is the one that Jeremiah and his readers knew.


Do you view Jesus as opposed to the Father or the two and the Holy Spirit are "ONE God" in your/our monotheistic religion?

==========================

If you oppose the Commandments of God in NT times - then answer this question -

In Eph 6:2 - "honor your father and mother for this is the first commandment with a promise" -- what Law - what unit of Law is it to be found that 'honor your father and mother" is the FIRST commandment with a promise??

First commandment where??

Two simple questions - easy answer to each one - Yesterday at 11:09 AM #383
Resolves the entire debate on this thread.
 
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