Upon reading your posts over the years I fully understand why many reject Jesus and the church.
bugkiller
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Upon reading your posts over the years I fully understand why many reject Jesus and the church.All of them - all sin is sin.
"sin IS transgression of the LAW" - 1 John 3:4.
if your question is "Which sin may I cherish and not repent of -- and still have heaven" you are reading "another gospel"
1 John 3 will not allow such a "gospel"
5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.
1 Cor 6
7 Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated? 8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God
If your question is "what part of God's Word may I be uninformed about and still go to heaven" that is another question. "Whatever is not of faith is sin" - and "to him that knows to do right and does it not - to him it is sin" James 4:17
Rom 6
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. ...
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Yes and sin was before the law. (Rom 5:13) Therefore sin isn't just as in only a violation of the law. The law was added because of transgression (sin) (Gal 3:19) No I don't promote sin nor the right to sin.The NT has references for many sins which cause the loss of salvation. Here are some:
Since Paul was concerned about losing the prize of salvation for himself and for other Christians, we should also be concerned about losing our own salvation.
Galatians 5:19-21
The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. niv
1 Timothy 5:8
Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. niv
Matthew 6:14-15
For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. niv
1 Corinthians 9:26-27
Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. 27 No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize. niv
Romans 11:19-21
You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. niv
Until you read 2 Tim 3:16, and 2 Peter 1:19-21
Very true. Problem is you're applying it to an expired covenant we are not held accountable to.
bugkiller
Not entirely true since Eph 6:2 says that the unit of law to be kept by the saints is the TEN Commandments and Heb 4 says "there REMAINS a Sabbath rest for the people of God" and 1Cor 7:19 says "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God."
And of course - Mark 7:6-13 condemns the efforts to bend/edit/twist the Commandments of God to conform to man's tradition.
Just not in the actual Bible.
true - it simply is not there - to get statements like you claimed in your prior statement - one would have to "quote you".
But not according to the actual Bible.
to get such statements as you just made - one would have to "quote you" - not the Bible.
Not true at all since "From Sabbath to Sabbath" is never used in all of scripture for "continually".
And not true since Is 66 specifically identifies TWO cycles. one weekly and one monthly - which does not fit at all into the reworked "continually" idea. This point is irrefutable.
until you read the Bible - in places such as Heb 4 'there remains therefore a SABBATH rest for the people of God" -- remains from the time of David and the Psalms at the very least according to Heb 4.
Col 2 condemns "making stuff up" it does not condemn, food, or drink or the Bible commandments. Christ paid our debt due to sin - he did not abolish His own Word on the cross!
Col 2
13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.
16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. 18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.
20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, 21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
But not in the Bible.
Not even in the NT.
But not in the Bible.
Not even in the NT.
until you read Acts 17:11 and Mark 7:6-13.
"Sola Scriptura" as a doctrine in the teaching that all doctrine and tradition must be tested against scripture to see if they contradict with the Word of God.
Not weekly
No it doesn't.
Paul is himself 'A Jewish convert". And "dietary laws" are found in Acts 15 - not just in Lev 11 and Lev 17.
Your total presentation over several posts of what you state is contradictory.
You say we're saved by grace and seem to be saying unless we keep the law there won't be any eternal life. That is salvation by works and not grace making it wages. The Bible clearly wages are death not eternal life.
bugkiller
Yes and sin was before the law. (Rom 5:13) Therefore sin isn't just as in only a violation of the law. The law was added because of transgression (sin) (Gal 3:19) No I don't promote sin nor the right to sin.
bugkiller
True, however in the case of the Bible its validated by historical events as true. Problem some people here want to say commands and covenants aren't valid according to their dictates. IOW some and not all of the Bible is valid in their mind. If part of it is valid and part of it isn't valid, who has the authority to say which is or isn't valid. A very interesting thing is the Bible doesn't have a single human author and yet it all collaborates with itself.A book cannot possibly authenticate itself.
Any person or persons can write a book with words in it that claim this book to be the word of God.
No dice, but good spin. What you posted doesn't line up with the Bible.Abraham was never under the Law of Moses. The New Covenant resumes the covenant with Abraham which was salvation by faith in God and not by the works of the Law of Moses.
Correct!No Christian needs to keep the Law of Moses.
The Bible won't support this statement.All Christians are commanded to love their neighbors as themselves. If they do not, they will not inherit eternal life.
Not according to my Bible. Such a notion is salvation by works. No I don't promote sin.All things a person does to his neighbor which harms his neighbor are called sins. Sinning after salvation will separate us from God again just as if we were never saved.
Read what your quote actually says.1 Timothy 5:8
But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. nkjv
13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.Sins against God were indeed committed before the Law of Moses. Adam and Eve committed the first human sins. The sins committed against the Law of Moses were not counted against any of the Israelite people who lived and died before Moses gave the Israelites the Law in their exodus from Egypt.
Romans 5:13
(For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. nkjv
There is the Law of Moses and there is also the natural law of God. The natural law of God is for a person to love God with all one's strength, mind, soul, and heart; and to love his neighbors as he loves himself. Love fulfills all things. God is love and He expects us to become like Him.
Romans 13:10
Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. nkjv
Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” nkjv
James 2:8
If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; nkjv
Let The Bible speak for itself. The Christian has no relationship with the law. Romans 7.
I do believe the early Christians who recorded that the Sabbath was but a shadow of the Lord's Day and that the Sabbath is no longer legally binding on Christians.
You do not believe this and so we will agree to disagree.
Ex 20:6 "love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14:15 "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"
So may argue that all that was before the cross - so pay no attention to that part of "scripture" -- it is not for Christians. Yet "Chrisitan" means - follower of Christ and Christ is speaking both in John 14 - and in Exodus 20.
By contrast to that speculative conclusion we have --
"what matters is KEEPiNG the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
So then what about Christ coming up with a different set of commandments - that are not those of God? Not those of God the Father and thereby negating the Commandments of God to replace them with other commandments - that come from Christ? Is that what we find in the New Testament?
Not according to Jesus' words in John's Gospel.
John 5:19 "19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner."
John 8:28 "28 So Jesus said, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.
John 12:49 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.
John 14: "10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works."
Which is why in John 14:15 we see this
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
Instead of "keep My Commandments - not My Father's commandments - just mine"
And it is why John 15:10 does not say that either
John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
And of course God the Father gave Jesus the ministry of "Savior" to the world such that Jesus prayed "Father if it be possible let this cup pass from me - nevertheless not my will - but Thy will be done"
John said - Jesus kept His Father's Commandments.
John said - we should do as Jesus did.
1 John 2: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
==================================================
Jesus is the One that gave us the TEN Commandments - they were spoken by HiM as we see in the NEW Covenant
Heb 8 (And Jer 31:31-33)
6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.
Exegesis demands that the moral law of God written on the mind and heart in Jer 31:31-33 is the one that Jeremiah and his readers knew.
Do you view Jesus as opposed to the Father or the two and the Holy Spirit are "ONE God" in your/our monotheistic religion?
==========================
If you oppose the Commandments of God in NT times - then answer this question -
In Eph 6:2 - "honor your father and mother for this is the first commandment with a promise" -- what Law - what unit of Law is it to be found that 'honor your father and mother" is the FIRST commandment with a promise??
First commandment where??
Two simple questions - easy answer to each one - Yesterday at 11:09 AM #383
Resolves the entire debate on this thread.
...
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Let The Bible speak for itself. The Christian has no relationship with the law. Romans 7.
1. I see you still chose not to answer the question about Eph 6:2 - from page 1.
2. The relationship to the LAW of God is clearly stated in Hebrews 8.
Heb 8 (And Jer 31:31-33)
6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.
And that NEW covenant is found in Jer 31:31-33.
And exegesis demands that the term for "LAW" in Jer 31:31-33 be moral Law of God that Jeremiah and his readers knew about.
We all knew this -
Just stating the obvious - but it is a detail that often gets glossed over.
The ONE Gospel that enabled Moses and Elijah to stand WITH Christ in Matt 17 - BEFORE the cross - is the one Gospel that contains the Jer 31:31-33 "NEW Covenant" spoken to man by Christ according to Heb 8:6-10
Ex 20:6 "love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14:15 "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"
So may argue that all that was before the cross - so pay no attention to that part of "scripture" -- it is not for Christians. Yet "Chrisitan" means - follower of Christ and Christ is speaking both in John 14 - and in Exodus 20.
By contrast to that speculative conclusion we have --
"what matters is KEEPiNG the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
So then what about Christ coming up with a different set of commandments - that are not those of God? Not those of God the Father and thereby negating the Commandments of God to replace them with other commandments - that come from Christ? Is that what we find in the New Testament?
Not according to Jesus' words in John's Gospel.
John 5:19 "19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner."
John 8:28 "28 So Jesus said, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.
John 12:49 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.
John 14: "10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works."
Which is why in John 14:15 we see this
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
Instead of "keep My Commandments - not My Father's commandments - just mine"
And it is why John 15:10 does not say that either
John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
And of course God the Father gave Jesus the ministry of "Savior" to the world such that Jesus prayed "Father if it be possible let this cup pass from me - nevertheless not my will - but Thy will be done"
John said - Jesus kept His Father's Commandments.
John said - we should do as Jesus did.
1 John 2: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
==================================================
Jesus is the One that gave us the TEN Commandments - they were spoken by HiM as we see in the NEW Covenant
Heb 8 (And Jer 31:31-33)
6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,
“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.
Exegesis demands that the moral law of God written on the mind and heart in Jer 31:31-33 is the one that Jeremiah and his readers knew.
Do you view Jesus as opposed to the Father or the two and the Holy Spirit are "ONE God" in your/our monotheistic religion?
==========================
If you oppose the Commandments of God in NT times - then answer this question -
In Eph 6:2 - "honor your father and mother for this is the first commandment with a promise" -- what Law - what unit of Law is it to be found that 'honor your father and mother" is the FIRST commandment with a promise??
First commandment where??
Two simple questions - easy answer to each one - Yesterday at 11:09 AM #383
Resolves the entire debate on this thread.
The Law that Paul says in Romans 3, and Romans 7 - "defines" what SIN IS!
As also does 1 John 3:4. and James 2 - when all of them quote from the OT Commandments
Lets not forget all those who were asked the simple question at the end of this post
In Eph 6:2 - "honor your father and mother for this is the first commandment with a promise" -- what Law - what unit of Law is it to be found that 'honor your father and mother" is the FIRST commandment with a promise??
First commandment where??
Is this the Law to which you refer?
Romans 3:19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
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