If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

BobRyan · Oct 26, 2015

Poster0 said:
Is accepting our God given liberty what you would call vain worship?

In my view - paying attention to what we find in scripture - instead of having to avoid it -- is true Liberty in Christ

hence my reference to this post - having two really easy questions in it.

Yesterday at 11:09 AM #383

Questions that resolve the entire controversy we see on this thread.

Jan001 · Oct 26, 2015

True Science said:
The reign will be on the earth. Many Scriptures say this. Blessed are the meek because they will inherit the earth. "We shall reign on the earth." It is so very simple.

I do not think that inherit and reign mean the same thing. The righteous will inherit the earth after it has been made new and this renewing of the earth happens shortly after Jesus comes for His second and final time. The first time Jesus came to earth, He came to die on the cross in order to forgive our sins. The second time He comes will be for the eternal salvation of the righteous. Jesus does not bodily appear three times on earth.

2 Peter 3:13
Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Hebrews 9:28
so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

BobRyan · Oct 26, 2015

In Rev 20 and Rev 3 - and in 1Cor 6 the saints are on thrones and they reign with Christ, --

In Matt 5 they inherit the earth.

And of course here - Yesterday at 11:09 AM #383

we have two simple questions the solve the entire debate on this thread.

True Science · Oct 26, 2015

[deleted]

Jan001 · Oct 26, 2015

OP: "If you love me, keep my commandments."

Which specific commandments did Jesus personally command us to keep? I do not see the Old Covenant Sabbath commandments mentioned in any of Jesus' teaching except for that Jesus claimed to be Lord of it and that He was not bound by it. Matthew 12:8

Luke 10:25-28
And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him [Jesus], saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?”
27 So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind, and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’"
28 And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”

Matthew 19:16-19
Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He [Jesus] said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

Paul tells his brethren:

Romans 13:9
For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

After the resurrection, neither Jesus nor the apostles commanded that the Saturday Sabbath be kept. Jesus nailed the Saturday Sabbath requirements to the cross, triumphing over them.

Colossians 2:11-15
In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

The written requirements of the Law of Moses which included the Sabbath requirements was nailed to the cross of Jesus. Jesus triumphed over the Old Covenant Law of Moses and its requirements and He gave us His New Covenant, a better covenant.

Hebrews 8:13
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Jan001 · Oct 26, 2015

BobRyan said:
In Rev 20 and Rev 3 - and in 1Cor 6 the saints are on thrones and they reign with Christ, --

In Matt 5 they inherit the earth.

And of course here - Yesterday at 11:09 AM #383

we have two simple questions the solve the entire debate on this thread.

The righteous who have died are reigning spiritually with Jesus right now in heaven. They will reign with Him there until it is time for His second appearing/coming to earth. After Jesus returns to earth the second time, God will put an end to all reigns except for God's.

1 Corinthians 15:20-28
But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

Death is destroyed forever at the time of Jesus' second coming. No human will ever die after Jesus returns to earth at the end of time. Jesus and His saints are spiritually reigning in heaven right now. They will continue to reign there in heaven until the time of Jesus' second coming.

Jan001 · Oct 26, 2015

True Science said:
No the inheritance involves reigning with Christ as his co-heirs.

In Chiliasm Jesus doesn't disappear for a while after the Millennium and then have to return again. The earth being made new is not a brand new planet but a reversing of all the curses on the earth so that it is made new in the renewed sense. Paul said the fashion of this world passes away. So this new system will be a refashioned one of God.

The saints in heaven right now are spiritually reigning in heaven with Jesus right now. The first resurrection mentioned in Revelation 20:4-6 is referring to all the righteous persons who die and are counted worthy for eternal life. The first resurrection of the righteous happened when Jesus died on the cross ant this is stated in Matthew 27:50-54:

"And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.
51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people.
54 When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, “'Surely he was the Son of God!'”

Shortly after Jesus second/final coming, He will destroy the earth by fire and then create a new earth for the righteous to inherit.

2 Peter 3:7
By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.

When Jesus returns to earth for His second/final time, everything that has ever been done on the earth by humans will be made known (laid bare).

Jan001 · Oct 26, 2015

double post

True Science · Oct 26, 2015

[deleted]

Poster0 · Oct 26, 2015

BobRyan said:
1. In your view - is this how Christ said "we don't need Moses' Law"

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

2. In your view is this how Paul says "all scripture is given by inspiration from Moses and is not to be used for doctrine"??

"All scripture is given by inspiration from GOD and IS to be used for doctrine" 2Tim 3:16

3. In your view were D.L. Moody and C.H. Spurgeon and Pope John Paul II, and Matthew Henry - all Seventh-day Adventists?

I don't lay aside Gods commandment, I follow the commands that the apostles gave us. Christ sent them to teach us what to obey (He commissioned them to do so). Its Paul who said that we are set free from the law that was given through Moses. Paul teaches us to follow what he commanded, and so I'm merely following Gods command, as Christ ordained it. I like many of those men you referred to, but they are not the apostle Paul. I prefer to follow the apostles who wrote the scripture, the ones whom Christ ordained in the beginning, and I see no reason to add anything else to their teaching, because that would only be adding to Gods commandment more than Christ meant for me to follow.

Poster0 · Oct 26, 2015

I suppose i'm just wasting my time here, just as you all are wasting yours as well. This debate will change nothing. After this debate will come another, and another, and another, month after month, year after year, and after wasting many years and many words, the SDA will still be SDA, Catholics will still be Catholic, and I will still be me.

bbbbbbb · Oct 26, 2015

Poster0 said:
I suppose i'm just wasting my time here, just as you all are wasting yours as well. This debate will change nothing. After this debate will come another, and another, and another, month after month, year after year, and after wasting many years and many words, the SDA will still be SDA, Catholics will still be Catholic, and I will still be me.

Few truer words were ever written.

Poster0 · Oct 26, 2015

bbbbbbb said:
Few truer words were ever written.

Thank you

Poster0 · Oct 26, 2015

I had to edit that last post, I misunderstood what I was replying to, sorry, my apologies

bbbbbbb · Oct 26, 2015

Poster0 said:
I had to edit that last post, I misunderstood what I was replying to, sorry, my apologies

No problem. I am glad you caught it before I replied.

Poster0 · Oct 26, 2015

bbbbbbb said:
No problem. I am glad you caught it before I replied.

Me too.

BobRyan · Oct 26, 2015

Poster0 said:
I suppose i'm just wasting my time here, just as you all are wasting yours as well. This debate will change nothing. After this debate will come another, and another, and another, month after month, year after year, and after wasting many years and many words, the SDA will still be SDA, Catholics will still be Catholic, and I will still be me.

A number of people have commented to me that they see the Bible details I have posted and welcome them - but are not posting. The idea that the "objective unbiased readers" will never see the point is not realistic at all.

In fact if we just look at objectivity - we find that the majority of the points I have made on this thread are the SAME points made in the "Baptist Confession of Faith" the "Westminster Confession of Faith" - D.L. Moody's sermon on the TEN Commandments, Matthew Henrys' statement on the same points I have raised, C.H. Spurgeon's statements, those found in Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II, The Catholic Catechism on certain points ... many many pro-Sunday sources admitting to many of the SAME - obvious Bible details.

So I for one am not ready to toss out every shred of objectivity and declare that only SDAs can see these Bible details.

The evidence to the contrary is overwhelming.

Those who argue for such non-objectivity -- are giving up on the Bible details - and avoiding even the simplest of questions asked here to expose the solution to the point. An extreme that not everyone will follow.

BobRyan · Oct 26, 2015

Which is why I am free to post -- this.

In my view - paying attention to what we find in scripture - instead of having to avoid it -- is true Liberty in Christ

hence my reference to this post - having two really easy questions in it.

Yesterday at 11:09 AM #383

Questions that resolve the entire controversy we see on this thread.

BobRyan · Oct 26, 2015

Poster0 said:
I don't lay aside Gods commandment, I follow the commands that the apostles gave us.

Christ said not to delete scripture - and so also did the Apostles - hence they quote it - over and over and over again -- NEVER saying "All of scripture has now been deleted except for this one quote of it" -- as we all know.

I believe that by admitting to a series of obvious details - all the errors about NT writers supposedly deleting scripture can be easily refuted.

BobRyan · Oct 26, 2015

Many of those who enjoy the details of scripture - are going to just love this.

Until - you notice these "Bible details"

1. Not ONE text in the Bible saying "week day 1 is the Lord's Day"
-- But we do have "the SEVENTH day is the Sabbath"
-- And we DO have "The Sabbath is the Holy Day of the Lord" Is 58:13
-- and we DO have "the Son of man is LORD of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28

2. Not ONE text in the Bible saying "remember week day 1 to keep it holy"
-- But we do have "REMEMBER the seventh day to keep it holy"
-- And we DO have "The Sabbath is the Holy Day of the Lord" Is 58:13
-- and we DO have "the Son of man is LORD of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28

3. Not ONE text in the Bible saying "There remains therefore a week-day-1 REST for the people of God"
-- but we DO have "there remains therefore a SABBATH rest for the people of God" Heb 4:9

4. Not ONE text in the Bible saying " I have edited/changed the Sabbath commandment repointing it week day 1"
-- but we DO have " I, the Lord, do not change;" Mal 3:6
-- we DO have "he who breaks one - breaks them all" James 2
-- we DO have "Jesus Christ is the SAME yesterday and today and forever" Heb 13
-- we DO have "17 Do NOT think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished." Matt 5:17-18

5. Not ONE text saying "the traditions of the church may freely edit delete revise the Word of God" -
-- but we DO have Mark 7:6-13

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

6. Not ONE text in the Bible saying "from week-day-1 to week-day-1 shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship"
-- but we DO have "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

7. Not ONE text in the Bible saying "week-day-1 was made FOR mankind"
-- but we DO have "the Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND" Mark 2:27
-- Both of which were made in the same 7 day week of Gen 1:2-2:3

If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

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