If you commit suicide, do you go to hell?

[TSIBHOD]

pro_odeh, I honestly have no idea where you're going with this talk about "claiming that you have the right to do something."

Okay, so let's say someone does murder someone, and it's not in war, and it's not in self defense. (I think you are doing the same thing there, by the way, saying that you'd have the right to do so because of your situation. How would you know that you had to kill someone in self defense? Maybe you just didn't trust God and you just thought you had the "right to sin." See how sticky it can be when you try to make salvation depend on our actions? But that's another matter anyway.)

Okay, so you're saying that someone kills someone else just for kicks, or what? That doesn't sound very analogous to suicide. A suicidal person doesn't see any other way out, usually. Let's compare it to murdering someone who is trying to blackmail you. You don't know of any other way to keep that person quiet, and he has damaging information about you. So you murder him. How does that sin line up? I think that suicide would be no worse than such a murder, wouldn't you agree? But do you think that that murder would make you lose your salvation?

 

[pro_odeh]

Acts 3:19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,
Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Luke 5:32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

To be forgiven, we have to confess our sins, and repent. What Im trying to tell you, is that those who commit suicide, and feel that they have the right to do so because of thier situasion, are justifying a sin. (I wont go in Gods place and say for sure that they will not be forgiven). Its not that we have to confess every sin in our life, because we cannot remember everything.. But if you kill a man. If it is in self defense or whatever, you are comitting a sin. And the Bible is clear on that. If you then go and say that killing that person was not wrong, you had the right to do so (no matter reason. Even if it is one who is blackmailing you. Killing him will still be a sin!), i dont think you can be saved. Because you are not seeing yourself as the sinner you are, so Jesus cannot cleanse away all your sins..

 

[ruby_redeemed]

[/QUOTE] i dont think you can be saved. Because you are not seeing yourself as the sinner you are, so Jesus cannot cleanse away all your sins..[/QUOTE]
So you do think that your salvation is contingent on something you do? By the way it sounds, you are saying Jesus is not powerful enough to save his people because they do not admit they are sinners? Is that correct?

 

[TSIBHOD]

pro_odeh, I could go off on a tangent about how I see the whole idea of sin differently than you do, but that is a different subject. I think that one sin is as bad as another, and it doesn't really matter if we don't know it was a sin. You said something to the effect of, if you don't remember a sin, God doesn't hold you accountable for confessing it. Well, that sin was still a sin, even if you don't remember it, but that doesn't keep God from forgiving it. Neither does our lack of knowledge while professing some sin to not be a sin keep God from forgiving that sin.

You seem to say that it is the excusal of sin that makes one go to hell. So, then, does that imply that if they would just admit that it was a sin and do it anyway, that that would be better?

I still don't see how suicide is any different from any other sin. Sin is bad, you must die forever for sinning. Jesus' blood provides propitiation for all of our sins, ranging from suicide to resentment of your neighbor for having that yappy little dog.

You say that a person who commits suicide justifies his actions, and that makes him go to hell? How do you know what goes on in his mind? And just because he justified his actions at the time doesn't mean he wouldn't regret it later. David justified his murder of Uriah at the time, and as I said, I don't think God would have thrown him in hell if he had died right then.

Our salvation depends on our trust in God, not on our moment-by-moment actions and feelings.

 

[pro_odeh]

If you die without having Jesus as your lord and savior, you will not be saved. If this is the fact, when you commit sucide, you will not be saved. Because we dont have time to regret, or come back to Jesus. I dont concider suicide as a sin, I look at it as changing lords in your life. (that is probably where we disagree).

But we cannot know this for sure anyway, so let us just have diffrent oppinions, and pray that you are right!
God bless!

 

[TSIBHOD]

Well, you say that we don't have "time to regret, or come back to Jesus." Does this mean that you don't think we can be forgiven of something that we don't regret? Does our salvation depend on our actions?

Does this mean that every time we sin, we are unsaved until we "come back to Jesus"?

And I don't think that "changing lords in your life" is something that can happen in any single action or mistake, and I would challenge you to find Scripture to support that idea.

 

[pro_odeh]

Again, we look at sucide in diffrent ways. You think it is a sin. I conceder it more like changing religion, from having Jesus as your lord, to yourself. Kinda like converting to islam, but still saying that you are a christian..

Salvation does not depend on our actions, but our belief in Jesus!

 

[TSIBHOD]

Do you find Scriptural evidence for your position that suicide means "changing religion," or is that just your opinion?

 

[pro_odeh]

So far I havent found scriptural evidence for that. Just the ones mentioned above, althoug they are not directly about this, but that is how I enturpritate it.. But uf I find, I will let you know! But if you have Scriptural evidence for the opposite, please feel free to share!
God bless!

 

[TSIBHOD]

Consider the verses below. I think that Paul is saying that one can have it in his heart to do good, but still do something else through the weakness of the flesh. Paul seems to emphasize that the heart wants to do good, but that the desires of the flesh sometimes rule. He then points out that there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. If you are in Christ Jesus, your flesh may pull you into sin -- perhaps even suicide in some cases, I would say -- but there is no condemnation.

Rom 7:15 I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate.
Rom 7:16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good.
Rom 7:17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out.
Rom 7:19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.
Rom 7:21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being,
Rom 7:23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members.
Rom 7:24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
Rom 7:25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.​

Now, remember that my claim is that some who commit suicide probably go to heaven because their heart was right. I'm not claiming that anyone can get away with suicide. In many circumstances, the person committing suicide may be separated from the Lord.

But in the above passage, it is pointed out that a believer can fall into sin and still be without condemnation.

Is suicide worse than any other sin? I don't think so. Romans 6:23 says that the wages of sin is death. This is for any sin, any time, with any motive. The circumstances don't matter. You sin, you die. Period. "But, the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Also, the following verses seem to say that no sins bear harsher penalties than others:

Jam 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it.
Jam 2:11 For he who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder." If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.​

It would be a change of heart that makes one unsaved, not simply a mistake -- even a big, dreadful one -- in one's actions. In Romans 7, Paul seems to take great care to note that his mind did not want to do what his flesh wanted to do. Our inner being, our heart, can desire to do good, but our flesh can drag us into sin if our faith is weak. Of course, if our faith was perfect, we would never sin, but if there are flaws in our faith, there will be flaws in our walk.

In any case, salvation is a matter of the heart, not a matter of actions. Do actions match the heart. They often do, but Paul pointed out that we can desire to do good and not do it. Remember:

1Sa 16:7 But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the LORD sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the LORD looks on the heart."​

We see a person's actions, the outward appearance. Only God can look on the heart. So I think that some who commit suicide may have hearts right with God, hearts that didn't want to kill themselves, but hearts that were overcome by fleshly weakness, just as we all are each time we sin. A lot of people who commit suicide aren't saved, but I believe that some are.

 

[pro_odeh]

TSIBHOD

] It would be a change of heart that makes one unsaved, not simply a mistake

[/size]
As I told you, that is what I concider sucide to be. A change of heart. If it was an action, a sin, then of course you would be forgiven. But comitting sucide is not just one action. You are changing your whole perspective. Instead of focusing on Jesus, you are having yourself as lord. That is where we disagree. I concider it a "change of religion", you see it as a sin, like all the others. And I pray with you, that some that have comitted sucide have entered heaven, but I cant say that for sure. But I hope I am wrong!
God bless!

 

[TSIBHOD]

Could you explain for me why it is that you think that suicide is a change of heart? Suicide is obviously an action, but why do you think it must invariably be accompanied by a change of heart?

 

[pro_odeh]

Because I feel that you no longer trust God to take care of you. You dont give Him your life, but you take it yourself.

 

[createdtoworship]

This is a lengthy response, my sister has attempted three times to kill herself. She is a newager, worshipping mother earth, and she is an athiest.

to answer the question of is suicide the unpardonable sin..

This might seem like a perplexing question, but it does have an answer. Though the Christian who has committed suicide has committed a grave sin, he is still forgiven. But, in order to understand why a Christian who commits suicide is forgiven, we first need to understand what salvation is and what it is based upon.
Salvation is the state of being saved from God's judgment upon the sinner. The only way to be saved is to trust Jesus for the forgiveness of one's sins (John 14:6, Acts 4:12). All who do not trust Jesus alone, by faith (Rom. 5:1; Rom. 6:23; Eph. 2:8-9) are not forgiven and go to hell when they die (Matt. 25:46; John 3:18). When Jesus forgives someone, He forgives all their sins and gives them eternal life and they shall never perish (John 10:28). He does not give them temporary eternal life -- otherwise, it would not be eternal.
Salvation is not based upon what you do. In other words, you don't have to obey any Law of God in order to become saved. This is because no one is saved by keeping the Law of God (Gal. 2:21; Rom. 3:24-28). But that does not mean that you can go and sin all you want. Rom. 6:1-3 expressly condemns such action. Instead, we are saved for the purpose of purity (1 Thess. 4:7). Our salvation is strictly by God's: "By grace through faith you have been saved…" (Eph. 2:8). Other than acting by faith in trusting and accepting what Jesus did on the cross, you don't do a thing (John 1:12-3) in order to become saved. Since you did not get your salvation by what you did, you can not lose it by what you do.
What about the unforgivable sin? Is that suicide? No. Suicide is not the unforgivable sin. Jesus spoke of the unforgivable sin in Matt. 12:22-32. The context is when the Pharisees accused Jesus of casting out demons by the power of the devil. Therefore, suicide is not the unforgivable sin.

Is repentance necessary for salvation?

This is a good question and the answer is yes -- and no. Now, before you throw stones, hear me out. Repentance is a necessary result of the saving work of God, not the cause of salvation. If repentance brought salvation, then salvation is by works; or rather, the ceasing of bad works. That isn't how it works. God grants repentance to the Christian (2 Tim. 2:25). The Christian then turns from his sin; that is, he stops sinning. He is able to repent because he is saved, not to get saved.
In 1 John 1:9 it says, "If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Confession of sin and its natural result of repentance are necessary elements of the Christian's life. But, what about the sins that we do not know we commit? If we do not confess them and do not repent of them, are we still saved? Of course we are! Otherwise, we would be forced to confess and repent of every single sin we ever commit. In effect, we'd be back under the Law, living by a rule of absolute repentance of every detail lest you be damned. This is bondage, not freedom. Jesus said His yoke was light, not hard (Matt. 11:27-30.
So, repentance is not the cause of salvation, but it is a result of salvation. The believer repents from his sins upon trusting in Christ and thereafter, continues to repent of further sins that the Lord reveals to him.

Back to the suicide issue.

Suicide is, in effect, self-murder. The unfortunate thing about it is that the one who commits it cannot repent of it. The damage is permanently done. We can see in the Bible that murderers have been redeemed (Moses, David, etc.), but they had opportunities to confess their sins and repent. With suicide, the person does not. But that does not mean the person is lost. Jesus bore all that person's sins, including suicide. If Jesus bore that person's sins on the cross 2000 years ago, and if suicide was not covered, then the Christian was never saved in the first place and the one sin of suicide is able to undo the entire work of the cross of Christ. This cannot be. Jesus either saves completely or he does not.

Is suicide always wrong?

That I cannot answer because I cannot list every possible situation. But, it seems obvious that suicide is clearly wrong, though forgivable. However, there are general categories of suicide that we could briefly comment on:

Medically Assisted Suicide - I've never seen this as being acceptable. The doctor is supposed to save life, not destroy it. But, lately as destroying the lives of the unborn is more common place, destroying the lives of the sick has become the next logical step.
Suicide to prevent prolonged torture - Let's say that someone was being tortured in an excruciating manner for an unbearably long period of time, is suicide an option? Perhaps. But if it were in this situation, why wouldn't it be all right in the medically assisted context if the patient were also in excruciating pain for long periods of time? Quite honestly, I'm not sure how to answer that one.
Suicide due to depression - Of course, this is never a good reason for suicide. Seasons pass and so does depression. The one who is depressed needs to look to Jesus and get help. Depression is real and powerful and is best fought with help. Also, severe depression robs the mind of clear thinking. People in such states are in a real way, not in their right mind.
Suicide due to a chemical imbalance in the brain - The human brain is incredibly complex and the medical community is full of accounts of extraordinary behaviors by people whose "circuits got crossed." I don't see how a situation like this would make it justifiable. I think it simply would make it more explainable.
Accidental suicide - Sometimes people accidentally kill themselves. This could mean leaning over a balcony too far and falling to one's death, or actually, purposefully taking a stupid risk like playing with a gun. Of course, with either, stupidity does not remove us from the grace of God. But then again, if it was an accident, it wouldn't be suicide would it?

 

[Canadian75]

I have to agree with gradyll, especially the point that not every suicide is the same and that mental illness can affect ones thinking severely to the point where they may not be entirely responsible for their actions.
Unfortunately, we cannot say for certain that someone who suicides will or will not go to heaven. That is something God only knows for certain. Personally I do not think that there is any sin that is too great for God's mercy.
However, though in the past I had considered suicide (during some rather dark depressive episodes), I was not willing to take the chance that I could be eternally damned. I did not know for certain whether I would go to hell or not if I committed suicide, but the risk was not worth it.
This question comes up so often in our societies that it is truly saddening. Whether we lose our salvation or not is part of the issue, but the greater issue is that we cannot judge someones fate after death, regardless of the manner of death. It is not our place to say so and so has gone to hell or not. That is God's place and we are not God.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

do we get to Heaven

by what we do?

or

what God did and doing now?

 

[HeyJupiter]

a person is not always in the right frame of mind when they kill themselves.


I have a friend, she committed suicide a couple months ago, She OD'd on drugs, she had severe depression and alot of other mental health issues, I think her views on God were changing, someimes she seemed to belive and sometimes she didnt, i dont know

SHe was abused by her father all her life, reallly really bad physical sexual and emotional abuse, she has never been able to even know who God is becuase of this, how she be blamed for that? if she hasnt been given the chance

its like how all children go to heaven because they cant really make up their minds and dont understand properly... i just think that a majority of suicide cases the person is not in their right stable rational mind and God consideres that..