If you are frustrated......

[Zecryphon]

"Do you think it appropriate to use one person’s position to lump all members in the ELCA together as if that person’s thoughts, etc. are supreme."

I haven't done that. You should really do your homework on what I have said before coming to me with such nonsense.

"I don’t know the person or what he/she has written in that specific case you are referring to, but to make the generalization that “no one in the ELCA is Lutheran” is indeed over the top."

Well you should go find out what was said first before making any accusations towards me. If you still wanna get in my face over my opinion, after having done your homework, I'll be here.

 

[Melethiel]

I'm not giving a blanket condemnation. I talked with DTK before declaring him to not be a Lutheran or is everyone choosing to ignore that?

I read that whole exchange, and I also noticed that you were completely ignoring what he was actually saying and putting words in his mouth based on your preconceived notions about what a member of the ELCA ought to believe.

 

[Bryne]

Ugh....some of the things I read on this board...what are people learning in their churches?

On the general theology board, someone is making the claim that homosexuals cannot be saved.

 

[Zecryphon]

I read that whole exchange, and I also noticed that you were completely ignoring what he was actually saying and putting words in his mouth based on your preconceived notions about what a member of the ELCA ought to believe.

Oh do tell me what my preconceived notions about the ELCA are. This ought to be really good since you know nothing about me.

 

[QuiltAngel]

Zec
I am really confused here. The sentence that Filo quoted used the pronoun 'she' which was in reference to Jerushabelle.

Where is this discussion with DTK?

Please slow down a bit here and if need be, take your discussion with Filo to PM's.

 

[Zecryphon]

I'll find the exchange with DTK tomorrow as I'm on my iPhone right now and can't copy and paste. I'm at a standstill right now. I'm waitin for people to do their homework and then come to me with their petty complaints about stuff that's not really all that important. If they don't like what I write, don't read what I write. This isn't terribly difficult people.

 

[QuiltAngel]

Post 47 on page 3 is the one Filo was referencing.

 

[Zecryphon]

The exchange between myself and DTK started I believe with post # 290 in the Let's Iron Things Out thread. Which can be found on page two of this main forum.

 

[Zecryphon]

Post 47 on page 3 is the one Filo was referencing.

And that post was made after I had shown how the ELCA's do not practice what they say they do in the "Let's Iron Things Out" thread. I'm not gonna copy and paste everything that was said there, here, just so Filo can be up to speed on how I've arrived at conclusions I am not alone in holding.

 

[QuiltAngel]

It is not a good idea to be jumping threads and referencing threads without saying so. As I have said, Filo was referencing an earlier post in THIS thread and then you got rather defensive. How was anyone to know that you were referring to another post in another thread?

 

[Zecryphon]

The Let's Iron Things out thread was no quickie thread. I have made no secret of my feeling about the ELCA in numerous other threads. If you have been gone for a while you should read a few threads before coming to a member and making uninformed accusations. That is what Filo has done here. I have now given the thread, my post number and where the thread can be found so that those who do have a problem with what I say can go read and learn what I'm basing my statements upon.

 

[LilLamb219]

The Let's Iron Things out thread was no quickie thread. I have made no secret of my feeling about the ELCA in numerous other threads. If you have been gone for a while you should read a few threads before coming to a member and making uninformed accusations. That is what Filo has done here. I have now given the thread, my post number and where the thread can be found so that those who do have a problem with what I say can go read and learn what I'm basing my statements upon.

Aww, Zec. Give Filo a break.

Please? He's a good guy on our side, you know

 

[Melethiel]

Oh do tell me what my preconceived notions about the ELCA are. This ought to be really good since you know nothing about me.

Here's how the discussion went, based on how I read it:

Zec: "ELCA throws out the BOC because of their stance on x,y,z"
DTK: "In our view, x,y,z does not go against the BOC and we feel we are being loyal to it"
Zec: "See? You've just admitted you throw out the BOC"

I don't need to know anything about you as a person to read what's plainly there. I'm only going based on what I read, so you can throw out your persecution complex. You may be right in your stance, but you have a very abrasive view of presenting it and you do tend to ignore what people are actually saying.

If that's not what you are actually doing, you'd better take a close look at how you come across in your posts. It's easy to say "if you don't like what I write, just ignore it," but you're not exactly giving Lutherans a good name. Sometimes, you'll read more people by actually engaging their argument than by getting on your soapbox and declaring to the world that you are part of the One True Church.

 

[Zecryphon]

If you care so much about this ELCA business you'd post what was actually said and not what you think was said in your mind. You've got exactly what I thought you had... Nothing. I suggest that the next time you jump on a bandwagon, you'll have taken the time to arm yourself with the facts first.

 

[Zecryphon]

Aww, Zec. Give Filo a break.

Please? He's a good guy on our side, you know

How come no one's getting on Filo's case for making unjustified accusations towards me? No... it's all " oh come on, he hasn't been here in a while." "Go easy on him, he's a good guy." FINE! I forgI've him his mistake. Everyone happy now?

 

[Melethiel]

If you care so much about this ELCA business you'd post what was actually said and not what you think was said in your mind. You've got exactly what I thought you had... Nothing. I suggest that the next time you jump on a bandwagon, you'll have taken the time to arm yourself with the facts first.

Oh, obviously, because I didn't copy and paste 5 pages of conversation, I didn't read it and am speaking out of my anus.

How you say things matters just as much as what you actually say, and what I posted earlier is the message that I got from that conversation, loud and clear. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

I doubt you'll care at all about what I'm saying, but I've just about had it with your abrasive attitude and the poor witness you are giving to the flock of visitors we're suddenly have visiting this forum. Your approach of "shoot first and ask questions later" is doing more harm than good.

 

[QuiltAngel]

As I have repeatedly said, Filo was replying to a post on this thread and this thread only. You jumped on him and brought into this thread/discussion a discussion that happened in another thread. You, Zec, are the one who got defensive here. You are the one that went on the attack because you are riled up about another thread.

If Filo says that there are people in the ELCA who are faithful, who are searching, and other things, who are you to say that these people are not Lutheran?

 

[Zecryphon]

Oh, obviously, because I didn't copy and paste 5 pages of conversation, I didn't read it and am speaking out of my anus.

How you say things matters just as much as what you actually say, and what I posted earlier is the message that I got from that conversation, loud and clear. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

I doubt you'll care at all about what I'm saying, but I've just about had it with your abrasive attitude and the poor witness you are giving to the flock of visitors we're suddenly have visiting this forum. Your approach of "shoot first and ask questions later" is doing more harm than good.

Oh no, Mel, has had it. I now quiver in fear. Get over yourself. I have zero respect for someone who can't take the time to post facts and instead posts what she thinks was said. What you've posted, your precious little recollection is nothing close to what was actually said. So get off your soapbox about how I'm such a poor witness to Lutheranism. I have the guts to present the truth regardless of whether or not you or anybody else here at CF likes it or not. I am abrasive in my posts, and I said it when I returned here, I'm not changing the way I post because SOME people don't like it. In that thread myself and others disproved the claim that the ELCA is a confessional Lutheran church body. You won't remember that because all that matters to you is the way things happened in your mind. Enjoy your faulty recollections. I have no use for them.

 

[Zecryphon]

First off, I'm not riled up abou the other thread. It was what it was, but in that thread I showed that DTK's claim that the ELCA is a Confessional Lutheran church body to be false by using Article X of the AC and DTK's own testimony of how the ELCA does not practice what is written in the Confessions regarding the Lord's Supper. I and others showed that while they say one thing, they do another.

Filo's comment about my post in this thread is uninformed because he is focusing on a statement I made that can not be taken alone. It must be taken and understood in the light of other posts I've made regarding the ELCA and their practices.

You said it yourself in this thread that Jerushabelle was ND through and through, while claiming to hold membership in a Lutheran church. I have declared two people to not be Lutheran in my opinion: DTK and Jerushabelle. That's it. Now while my post in this thread can be viewed as a blanket condemnation of all of ELCA, if you read only that post and nothing else. However, if you read what Jerushabelle actually posted, then my post is not the blanket condemnation that Filo has take. It as, it's actually me declaring exactly one person and one person only to not be a Lutheran and remember Jane, you agreed with that assessment when trying to explain that post to Filo. Yes, I do get defensive when I am accused of something I have not done. I'm funny that way.

 

[Melethiel]

Oh no, Mel, has had it. I now quiver in fear. Get over yourself. I have zero respect for someone who can't take the time to post facts and instead posts what she thinks was said. What you've posted, your precious little recollection is nothing close to what was actually said. So get off your soapbox about how I'm such a poor witness to Lutheranism. I have the guts to present the truth regardless of whether or not you or anybody else here at CF likes it or not. I am abrasive in my posts, and I said it when I returned here, I'm not changing the way I post because SOME people don't like it. In that thread myself and others disproved the claim that the ELCA is a confessional Lutheran church body. You won't remember that because all that matters to you is the way things happened in your mind. Enjoy your faulty recollections. I have no use for them.

See? You've completely missed the point of my post, thus proving my point. You have zero respect for me because I didn't copy and paste five pages of posts? Wow, I'm so hurt.

It doesn't matter whether or not you disproved that the ELCA is confessional Lutheran body, what matters is how you did it and how you completely trampled over anyone from the opposing side who attempted to converse with you, choosing instead to blast out what you consider to be truth. You remind me of the people standing in public places at my university condemning everyone who passes by to hell and yelling at anyone who tries to strike up a dialogue. I don't think anyone took them seriously except for the atheists who used them as an excuse to mock Christianity, but it sure was entertaining.