If we are in the End Times...

[seventysevens]

Actually, the end of that age and his final return are two different events. The first comes with numerale signs. The second has no signs at all. I can give scriptures later.

It is very clear in Jesus own words that he answered the question

As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

First Jesus told then that the temple would be destroyed
then he answered the question "what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Jesus makes it very clear that the whole world will hear the gospel of the KINGDOM - and THEN the end will come


Matthew 28:19-20
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age. Amen.

Later on Jesus tells them again to go and preach the gospel - and that in the sense of Him being indwelt in you that he is always with us - even to the end of the age

He did not say that those people he was speaking to would see the end of the age just as Jesus did not remain on earth until the end of the age as Jesus left them shortly after he said that -

so to say that the end of the age ended back when Matthew was written would have to mean that Jesus did not leave them until the end of the age had occurred-
but the end of the age has not yet occurred

It is just people want to say it happened because to say otherwise would be to admit their whole view is a mistake that 70AD is not all they they have been taught it was

It is as simple as all or nothing- you must include All of what Jesus said in Matt 24 - not just some of it , if you pick and choose what you want and do not want then you have ignored the context of the Holy Spirit inspired writing to create your own version of what Jesus was saying - which is what some people are preaching today

Matt 13
49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[BABerean2]

It is just people want to say it happened because to say otherwise would be to admit their whole view is a mistake that 70AD is not all they they have been taught it was

It is as simple as all or nothing- you must include All of what Jesus said in Matt 24 - not just some of it , if you pick and choose what you want and do not want then you have ignored the context of the Holy Spirit inspired writing to create your own version of what Jesus was saying - which is what some people are preaching today

Olivet Timing Revealed by Luke’s Gospel:

Compare Luke's Gospel to that of Matthew if you want to understand the timing.

Jesus Foretells Destruction of the Temple (These subtitles are found in e-Sword.)


Luk 21:5　 Then, as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and donations, He said,　

Luk 21:6　 "These things which you see—the days will come in which not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down."　

(Mat 24:2　 And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down."　)





Luk 21:7　 So they asked Him, saying, "Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign will there be when these things are about to take place?"　

(Mat 24:3　 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?")

(　Mar 13:3　 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately,　

Mar 13:4　 "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign when all these things will be fulfilled?")　





Luk 21:8　 And He said: "Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He,' and, 'The time has drawn near.' Therefore do not go after them.　

(Mat 24:5　 For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.　)



Luk 21:9　 But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end will not come immediately."

(Mat 24:6　 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.)　



Jesus Foretells Wars and Persecution



Luk 21:10　 Then He said to them, "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.　

(Mat 24:7　 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.　)



Luk 21:11　 And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven.　

(Mat 24:7　 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.　)



Luk 21:12　 But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name's sake.　

(Mat 24:9　 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.)　(Read Acts 22:19-20, where Paul reveals that he fulfilled this text.)



Luk 21:13　 But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony.　

Luk 21:14　 Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer;　

Luk 21:15　 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist.　

Luk 21:16　 You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death.　

Luk 21:17　 And you will be hated by all for My name's sake.　

(Mat 24:10　 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another.　)



Luk 21:18　 But not a hair of your head shall be lost.　

Luk 21:19　 By your patience possess your souls.　

(Mat 24:13　 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.)　



Jesus Foretells Destruction of Jerusalem



Luk 21:20　 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.　(See also Luke 19:41-44)

(Mat 24:15　 "Therefore when you see the 'ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),　



Luk 21:21　 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.　

(Mat 24:16　 "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.)　



Luk 21:22　 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.　

Luk 21:23　 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people.　

(Mat 24:19　 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!　) (See Luke 23:27-31 where Jesus warned the women weeping for Him.)



Luk 21:24　 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.　
(Almost all Bible scholars agree that the first part of the verse above is about 70 AD. At the end of the verse we find a period of time known as “the times of the Gentiles”. In the verses that follow we find the future Second Coming of Christ.)


The Coming of the Son of Man



Luk 21:25　 "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring;　

(Mat 24:29　 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.)　



Luk 21:26　 men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.　

Luk 21:27　 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.　

(Mat 24:30　 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.)　



Luk 21:28　 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near."　

(Mat 24:33　 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!)

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From "Antiquities of the Jews" by Josephus, Book 12, chapter 7

"6. When therefore the generals of Antiochus's armies had been beaten so often, Judas assembled the people together, and told them, that after these many victories which God had given them, they ought to go up to Jerusalem, and purify the temple, and offer the appointed sacrifices. But as soon as he, with the whole multitude, was come to Jerusalem, and found the temple deserted, and its gates burnt down, and plants growing in the temple of their own accord, on account of its desertion, he and those that were with him began to lament, and were quite confounded at the sight of the temple; so he chose out some of his soldiers, and gave them order to fight against those guards that were in the citadel, until he should have purified the temple. When therefore he had carefully purged it, and had brought in new vessels, the candlestick, the table [of shew-bread], and the altar [of incense], which were made of gold, he hung up the veils at the gates, and added doors to them. He also took down the altar [of burnt-offering], and built a new one of stones that he gathered together, and not of such as were hewn with iron tools. So on the five and twentieth day of the month Casleu, which the Macedonians call Apeliens, they lighted the lamps that were on the candlestick, and offered incense upon the altar [of incense], and laid the loaves upon the table [of shew-bread], and offered burnt-offerings upon the new altar [of burnt-offering]. Now it so fell out, that these things were done on the very same day on which their Divine worship had fallen off, and was reduced to a profane and common use, after three years' time; for so it was, that the temple was made desolate by Antiochus, and so continued for three years. This desolation happened to the temple in the hundred forty and fifth year, on the twenty-fifth day of the month Apeliens, and on the hundred fifty and third olympiad: but it was dedicated anew, on the same day, the twenty-fifth of the month Apeliens, on the hundred and forty-eighth year, and on the hundred and fifty-fourth olympiad. And this desolation came to pass according to the prophecy of Daniel, which was given four hundred and eight years before; for he declared that the Macedonians would dissolve that worship [for some time].

7. Now Judas celebrated the festival of the restoration of the sacrifices of the temple for eight days, and omitted no sort of pleasures thereon; but he feasted them upon very rich and splendid sacrifices; and he honored God, and delighted them by hymns and psalms. Nay, they were so very glad at the revival of their customs, when, after a long time of intermission, they unexpectedly had regained the freedom of their worship, that they made it a law for their posterity, that they should keep a festival, on account of the restoration of their temple worship, for eight days. And from that time to this we celebrate this festival, and call it Lights. I suppose the reason was, because this liberty beyond our hopes appeared to us; and that thence was the name given to that festival. Judas also rebuilt the walls round about the city, and reared towers of great height against the incursions of enemies, and set guards therein. He also fortified the city Bethsura, that it might serve as a citadel against any distresses that might come from our enemies. "


Josephus confirms above the understanding of the Jews of his time, who knew that Daniel had predicted the events of 167 BC, by Antiochus Epiphanes.
Josephus confirms it as a historical fact.


John 10:22 is a reference to the celebration of Hanukkah each year by the Jews of Jesus time.


The Book of Matthew was addressed mainly to a Jewish audience. Jesus was telling the Jews of His time that something similar to 167 BC would happen during 70 AD. Not only did Antiochus desecrate the temple, but he also attacked the city killing thousands of Jews and stopped the temple sacrifices. The temple sacrifices would also stop in 70 AD, due to the destruction of the temple. Based on John 10:22, the Jews were well aware of this historical fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy. Luke’s Gospel was written to more of a Gentile audience, so he spelled it out for them.


Matthew 24:15-16 and Luke 21:20-21 are clearly parallel accounts, because we have the exact same warning to flee from Judea to the mountains in the second verse of each Gospel.


:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

 

[seventysevens]

Olivet Timing Revealed by Luke’s Gospel:

Compare Luke's Gospel to that of Matthew if you want to understand the timing.

Jesus Foretells Destruction of the Temple (These subtitles are found in e-Sword.)


Luk 21:5　 Then, as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and donations, He said,　

Luk 21:6　 "These things which you see—the days will come in which not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down."　

(Mat 24:2　 And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down."　)





Luk 21:7　 So they asked Him, saying, "Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign will there be when these things are about to take place?"　

(Mat 24:3　 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?")

(　Mar 13:3　 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately,　

Mar 13:4　 "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign when all these things will be fulfilled?")　





Luk 21:8　 And He said: "Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He,' and, 'The time has drawn near.' Therefore do not go after them.　

(Mat 24:5　 For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many.　)



Luk 21:9　 But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end will not come immediately."

(Mat 24:6　 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.)　



Jesus Foretells Wars and Persecution



Luk 21:10　 Then He said to them, "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.　

(Mat 24:7　 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.　)



Luk 21:11　 And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven.　

(Mat 24:7　 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.　)



Luk 21:12　 But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name's sake.　

(Mat 24:9　 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.)　(Read Acts 22:19-20, where Paul reveals that he fulfilled this text.)



Luk 21:13　 But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony.　

Luk 21:14　 Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer;　

Luk 21:15　 for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist.　

Luk 21:16　 You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death.　

Luk 21:17　 And you will be hated by all for My name's sake.　

(Mat 24:10　 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another.　)



Luk 21:18　 But not a hair of your head shall be lost.　

Luk 21:19　 By your patience possess your souls.　

(Mat 24:13　 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.)　



Jesus Foretells Destruction of Jerusalem



Luk 21:20　 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.　(See also Luke 19:41-44)

(Mat 24:15　 "Therefore when you see the 'ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),　



Luk 21:21　 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.　

(Mat 24:16　 "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.)　



Luk 21:22　 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.　

Luk 21:23　 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people.　

(Mat 24:19　 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!　) (See Luke 23:27-31 where Jesus warned the women weeping for Him.)



Luk 21:24　 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.　
(Almost all Bible scholars agree that the first part of the verse above is about 70 AD. At the end of the verse we find a period of time known as “the times of the Gentiles”. In the verses that follow we find the future Second Coming of Christ.)


The Coming of the Son of Man



Luk 21:25　 "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring;　

(Mat 24:29　 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.)　



Luk 21:26　 men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.　

Luk 21:27　 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.　

(Mat 24:30　 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.)　



Luk 21:28　 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near."　

(Mat 24:33　 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!)

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::



From "Antiquities of the Jews" by Josephus, Book 12, chapter 7

"6. When therefore the generals of Antiochus's armies had been beaten so often, Judas assembled the people together, and told them, that after these many victories which God had given them, they ought to go up to Jerusalem, and purify the temple, and offer the appointed sacrifices. But as soon as he, with the whole multitude, was come to Jerusalem, and found the temple deserted, and its gates burnt down, and plants growing in the temple of their own accord, on account of its desertion, he and those that were with him began to lament, and were quite confounded at the sight of the temple; so he chose out some of his soldiers, and gave them order to fight against those guards that were in the citadel, until he should have purified the temple. When therefore he had carefully purged it, and had brought in new vessels, the candlestick, the table [of shew-bread], and the altar [of incense], which were made of gold, he hung up the veils at the gates, and added doors to them. He also took down the altar [of burnt-offering], and built a new one of stones that he gathered together, and not of such as were hewn with iron tools. So on the five and twentieth day of the month Casleu, which the Macedonians call Apeliens, they lighted the lamps that were on the candlestick, and offered incense upon the altar [of incense], and laid the loaves upon the table [of shew-bread], and offered burnt-offerings upon the new altar [of burnt-offering]. Now it so fell out, that these things were done on the very same day on which their Divine worship had fallen off, and was reduced to a profane and common use, after three years' time; for so it was, that the temple was made desolate by Antiochus, and so continued for three years. This desolation happened to the temple in the hundred forty and fifth year, on the twenty-fifth day of the month Apeliens, and on the hundred fifty and third olympiad: but it was dedicated anew, on the same day, the twenty-fifth of the month Apeliens, on the hundred and forty-eighth year, and on the hundred and fifty-fourth olympiad. And this desolation came to pass according to the prophecy of Daniel, which was given four hundred and eight years before; for he declared that the Macedonians would dissolve that worship [for some time].

7. Now Judas celebrated the festival of the restoration of the sacrifices of the temple for eight days, and omitted no sort of pleasures thereon; but he feasted them upon very rich and splendid sacrifices; and he honored God, and delighted them by hymns and psalms. Nay, they were so very glad at the revival of their customs, when, after a long time of intermission, they unexpectedly had regained the freedom of their worship, that they made it a law for their posterity, that they should keep a festival, on account of the restoration of their temple worship, for eight days. And from that time to this we celebrate this festival, and call it Lights. I suppose the reason was, because this liberty beyond our hopes appeared to us; and that thence was the name given to that festival. Judas also rebuilt the walls round about the city, and reared towers of great height against the incursions of enemies, and set guards therein. He also fortified the city Bethsura, that it might serve as a citadel against any distresses that might come from our enemies. "


Josephus confirms above the understanding of the Jews of his time, who knew that Daniel had predicted the events of 167 BC, by Antiochus Epiphanes.
Josephus confirms it as a historical fact.


John 10:22 is a reference to the celebration of Hanukkah each year by the Jews of Jesus time.


The Book of Matthew was addressed mainly to a Jewish audience. Jesus was telling the Jews of His time that something similar to 167 BC would happen during 70 AD. Not only did Antiochus desecrate the temple, but he also attacked the city killing thousands of Jews and stopped the temple sacrifices. The temple sacrifices would also stop in 70 AD, due to the destruction of the temple. Based on John 10:22, the Jews were well aware of this historical fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy. Luke’s Gospel was written to more of a Gentile audience, so he spelled it out for them.


Matthew 24:15-16 and Luke 21:20-21 are clearly parallel accounts, because we have the exact same warning to flee from Judea to the mountains in the second verse of each Gospel.


:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

You have shown here that there is a lot that you misunderstand and refusing to acknowledge the scriptures of what Jesus said- you will find out you are very mistaken
Of all the things forewarns about - have not yet happened to a level of fullness that it can be called The End of the Age
Just as He said these are the BEGINNING of sorrows and the End is Not Yet

Matt 13
49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It is very clear in Jesus own words that he answered the question

As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

First Jesus told then that the temple would be destroyed
then he answered the question "what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Jesus makes it very clear that the whole world will hear the gospel of the KINGDOM - and THEN the end will come


Matthew 28:19-20
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age. Amen.

Later on Jesus tells them again to go and preach the gospel - and that in the sense of Him being indwelt in you that he is always with us - even to the end of the age

He did not say that those people he was speaking to would see the end of the age just as Jesus did not remain on earth until the end of the age as Jesus left them shortly after he said that -

so to say that the end of the age ended back when Matthew was written would have to mean that Jesus did not leave them until the end of the age had occurred-
but the end of the age has not yet occurred

It is just people want to say it happened because to say otherwise would be to admit their whole view is a mistake that 70AD is not all they they have been taught it was

It is as simple as all or nothing- you must include All of what Jesus said in Matt 24 - not just some of it , if you pick and choose what you want and do not want then you have ignored the context of the Holy Spirit inspired writing to create your own version of what Jesus was saying - which is what some people are preaching today

Matt 13
49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Well, I disagree with you here. You have cut off the description of the destruction of Jerusalem and falsely tacked it onto his "Persua" second appearance. The description of the destruction of Jerusalem continues until verse 35 in Matthew 24. You can read the details to include when the Christians needs to leave. That is not about his second appearance. That is about his coming in judgement (in the clouds describes judgement) upon Jerusalem. Why would the Christians need to flew Jerusalem if Jesus is coming to take over the world? Makes no sense. Did you know that Paul wrote that the Gospel had been preached to the whole world? It is true. He did. And Jesus certainly did say that that generation would see the end of the age. What age? The age of the Judaic system of the temple. That temple was destroyed and will never be built there again. The end of that age happened.

Jesus begins to address the other question of when he will bodily return (not the judgement on Jerusalem) starting verse 36. The whole of what follows after 36 tells us no signs will be given. Before Jesus bodily comes, no signs. Before the him coming in Judgement against Jerusalem, plenty of signs. That is how I see it.

And actually, I think I do include all of what Jesus said as he said it. The signs are for the destruction of Jerusalem in judgement for which the Christians need to heed his words and leave with the armies surround the city right before the final destruction. There are no signs for the second coming though. Life will be normal...eating and drinking...marrying and so on. No hint.

 

[seventysevens]

Well, I disagree with you here. You have cut off the description of the destruction of Jerusalem and falsely tacked it onto his "Persua" second appearance. The description of the destruction of Jerusalem continues until verse 35 in Matthew 24. You can read the details to include when the Christians needs to leave. That is not about his second appearance. That is about his coming in judgement (in the clouds describes judgement) upon Jerusalem. Why would the Christians need to flew Jerusalem if Jesus is coming to take over the world? Makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense when you consider all scripture , but it is Jews in Jerusalem that flee because the decree has been given to kill all Jew in the area of Jerusalem and surrounding areas , if you choose not to include all scripture it won't makes sense to those who choose not to accept ALL scripture

You can disagree if you want to , but you should consider what is being said to Jesus and how he responds

the disciples Jesus was speaking to had lived with Jesus and walked with Him for most of Jesus ministry so they knew well about Jesus purpose on earth , they well knew of Jesus ministry and knew His miracles and knew He Is the the Lord God in the flesh , as such they understood much more than what is stated in the text - when they asked "what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

They are asking what will be the signs of your return ?
They are asking what are the signs of the end of the age ?

From verse 4 through verse 32 Jesus is telling of what will come to pass both signs of the end of the age and signs of his coming because they are both intertwined , the signs of His coming are the same signs that point to the end of the age

Did you know that Paul wrote that the Gospel had been preached to the whole world? It is true. He did. And Jesus certainly did say that that generation would see the end of the age. What age? The age of the Judaic system of the temple. That temple was destroyed and will never be built there again. The end of that age happened.

Neither Jesus or the disciples said anything about a Judaic age - nothing at all
If someones says to you - what time is it ,
where is your other store , and will you have a New Years Day sale ?

Even though it is all said in one sentence , if the store has New Years day sale or not has nothing to do with what the current time is , Just because it is all said in one sentence does not mean it all is related to the first question.

There are no signs for the second coming though. Life will be normal...eating and drinking...marrying and so on. No hint.

From verse 4 through verse 32 Jesus is telling of what will come to pass both signs of the end of the age and signs of his coming because they are both intertwined , the signs of His coming are the same signs that point to the end of the age
Again there is no mention at all anywhere of a Judaic age in all that Jesus was speaking about , the only end of the age Jesus spoke of is

Matt 13
49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

That did not happen in 70 AD and has not yet happened at all

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It makes perfect sense when you consider all scripture , but it is Jews in Jerusalem that flee because the decree has been given to kill all Jew in the area of Jerusalem and surrounding areas , if you choose not to include all scripture it won't makes sense to those who choose not to accept ALL scripture

You ought to not attack my character. Shows you are losing the argument. In fact it was the Christians who saw the armies surrounding Jerusalem in 70 AD and fled. All of them to Jappa, I believe. No Christian was there at the siege and there were 1000s gone overnight. You forget that the Jews do not read Jesus' words. The Christians do.
[quote[
You can disagree if you want to , but you should consider what is being said to Jesus and how he responds[/quote]I do. You should as well.

the disciples Jesus was speaking to had lived with Jesus and walked with Him for most of Jesus ministry so they knew well about Jesus purpose on earth , they well knew of Jesus ministry and knew His miracles and knew He Is the the Lord God in the flesh , as such they understood much more than what is stated in the text - when they asked "what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

Jesus didn't agree with you. He said they were sad, for example, that he told them he was going away. They ought to have rejoiced. They were very sad when he died. They did not believe a resurrection was coming. So they did not believe a whole lot you seem to think they did.

They are asking what will be the signs of your return ?
They are asking what are the signs of the end of the age ?

Two different question answered in two different ways. THe end would end with the destruction of Jerusalem with lots of signs. THe return happens with no signs.

From verse 4 through verse 32 Jesus is telling of what will come to pass both signs of the end of the age and signs of his coming because they are both intertwined , the signs of His coming are the same signs that point to the end of the age

No they are not. There is no reason to think so from the text and from history. One has signs, the other has none. They are separate events.

Neither Jesus or the disciples said anything about a Judaic age - nothing at all
If someones says to you - what time is it ,
where is your other store , and will you have a New Years Day sale ?

Did they ask what time he is coming? Did he answer with a time? The Jews no longer have the kingdom of God. That is the end of that age. That is a major change. The kingdom has been taken away from them. Sounds like an age change.

From verse 4 through verse 32 Jesus is telling of what will come to pass both signs of the end of the age and signs of his coming because they are both intertwined , the signs of His coming are the same signs that point to the end of the age

OK, I repeat. They have nothing to do with one another. NO sign given for his bodily return to earth. The end of the age of the Jews having the Kingdom of God was coming and that had lots of signs. Some very remarkable.

Again there is no mention at all anywhere of a Judaic age in all that Jesus was speaking about , the only end of the age Jesus spoke of is

Matt 13
49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

That did not happen in 70 AD and has not yet happened at all

You are mixing up verses. Please stick to Matthew 24. Not saying there will not be an end to this age. There is more than one age, you know. The fact that one age ends and life continues shows more than one age.

 

[seventysevens]

You ought to not attack my character. Shows you are losing the argument. In fact it was the Christians who saw the armies surrounding Jerusalem in 70 AD and fled. All of them to Jappa, I believe. No Christian was there at the siege and there were 1000s gone overnight. You forget that the Jews do not read Jesus' words. The Christians do.

I did not attack anything - you just prefer to see things without including all scripture - this scripture says OUTRIGHT what the end of the age will be like

The disciples asked what are the signs of your returning and the end of the age - they did not say Judaic age , or any other age , they asked when will you return , and what are the signs of your return - Jesus responded with the list of things that will happen that describe what will take place to indicate when He will return - that is why after some of the things He told of ,-He also said "But the End is not yet" then he goes on to more details on what signs there will be to know what to look for to know when He will return

Just as scripture tells us Jesus is the same today , yesterday and forever and so is what he says , Jesus IS the Almighty God and He said
Matt 13
49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

you seem to follow some sort of denominational teaching - which is Nothing more than what some men started on their own - when people have a different view than what is being taught in the church they are in they go out and start their own church teaching what they think scripture says and means.
Now there are dozens and dozens of denominations all teaching what they think scripture means - ALL denominations are man made teachings that started well after the original church began
There are all sorts of varied teachings and most people simply accept the teachings in whatever church they are raised in without even questioning if the teachings are correct , as such they grow up being embedded in whatever they were taught

Jesus said outright what the end of the age will be like - you only object because it goes against what you believe

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I did not attack anything - you just prefer to see things without including all scripture - this scripture says OUTRIGHT what the end of the age will be like

You attack my character and that you do not see it brings doubt as to your sensitivity to the text.

The disciples asked what are the signs of your returning and the end of the age - they did not say Judaic age , or any other age , they asked when will you return , and what are the signs of your return - Jesus responded with the list of things that will happen that describe what will take place to indicate when He will return - that is why after some of the things He told of ,ha also said "But the End is not yet" then he goes on to more details on what signs there will be to know what to look for to know when He will return

Problem is you see these things as the same time. They are two different questions. Two different time periods. But I think there is some kind of blindness on your part. You think they HAVE to be talking about the same time because the questions are asked one after another. I doubt anything will penetrate that inability to see anything else.

Just as scripture tells us Jesus is the same today , yesterday and forever and so is what he says , Jesus IS the Almighty God and He said
Matt 13
49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50 and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Is there an age following the end of this age mentioned? There are only two answers. One is no, there is no age after the end of the age and live is over for all or yes, there is another age following the end of this age. You see where I am going? When one age ends, another begins. Do not get hung up on what the age is called.

you seem to follow some sort of denominational teaching - which is Nothing more than what some men started on their own - when people have a different view than what is being taught in the church they are in they go out and start their own church teaching what they think scripture says and means.

Nope. Nice try but no, that is not true. I know you wished it were.

Now there are dozens and dozens of denominations all teaching what they think scripture means - ALL denominations are man made teachings that started well after the original church began
There are all sorts of varied teachings and most people simply accept the teachings in whatever church they are raised in without even questioning if the teachings are correct , as such they grow up being embedded in whatever they were taught

Jesus said outright what the end of the age will be like - you only object because it goes against what you believe

Actually, I understand fairly well Revelation in detail. Do you? And it is because I understood that they are separate events. And this understanding, not a part of my church (we are not a denomination), has opened my understanding and awe of Matthew 24 and the following chapters in Matthew. I understand the events before the Sanhedrin. I finally understand about the warnings to keep watch. (Nevver could figure out why I needed to flee Jerusalem as I don't live there and neither do you.) The list goes on and on. I have been to Ephesus and seen that Jesus really did come and take away their candlestick and they are a ruin today.

But if you want to stick to your view, which is fairly new in church history, then you can do so. It is very popular, I admit. Makes people afraid of the future and other not good fruit, but that is the choice of some. Does your denomination teach the view you hold, by the way?

 

[seventysevens]

You attack my character and that you do not see it brings doubt as to your sensitivity to the text.
Problem is you see these things as the same time. They are two different questions. Two different time periods. But I think there is some kind of blindness on your part. You think they HAVE to be talking about the same time because the questions are asked one after another. I doubt anything will penetrate that inability to see anything else.
Is there an age following the end of this age mentioned? There are only two answers. One is no, there is no age after the end of the age and live is over for all or yes, there is another age following the end of this age. You see where I am going? When one age ends, another begins. Do not get hung up on what the age is called.
Nope. Nice try but no, that is not true. I know you wished it were. Actually, I understand fairly well Revelation in detail. Do you? And it is because I understood that they are separate events. And this understanding, not a part of my church (we are not a denomination), has opened my understanding and awe of Matthew 24 and the following chapters in Matthew. I understand the events before the Sanhedrin. I finally understand about the warnings to keep watch. (Nevver could figure out why I needed to flee Jerusalem as I don't live there and neither do you.) The list goes on and on. I have been to Ephesus and seen that Jesus really did come and take away their candlestick and they are a ruin today.

But if you want to stick to your view, which is fairly new in church history, then you can do so. It is very popular, I admit. Makes people afraid of the future and other not good fruit, but that is the choice of some. Does your denomination teach the view you hold, by the way?

What is wrong with you? you have a problem understanding what you read as I did not attack you in any way whatsoever !!!!!!!
If you think that it is only because you read things into it that are not there and that you do not understand
Believe whatever you want , It does not matter to me what you believe and there is no reason to speak to you any further when you make FALSE allegations - End of this !!!!!!!!

 

[Dorothy Mae]

What is wrong with you? you have a problem understanding what you read as I did not attack you in any way whatsoever !!!!!!!

OH, now you attacked even bigger. "What is wrong with you" is an aggressive attack on a person. Any person. You do not see this, do you? Instead of apologizing, you lauch a stronger attack. This is something that I find quite significant when evaluating what another says. If the character of Christ is not demonstrated, one can be sure that the level of understanding is on the same level as the character. That is, if the Holy SPirit is not correcting the person as to their own behaviour, they are not receiving more difficult information as to the meaning of the BIble. (If you keep my teaching, you will know the truth.)

If you think that it is only because you read things into it that are not there and that you do not understand[

Very unwise. When someone says they understand, the humble response is to ask them what they know. Instead you again attack me. (I am not hurt nor irritated nor emotional in any way. We do not know each other. You would not know me if we met on the street so I can remian impartial.)

Believe whatever you want , It does not matter to me what you believe and there is no reason to speak to you any further when you make FALSE allegations - End of this !!!!!!!!

Ah, yes, I suspected this would happen. Well, may God bless you today and may you feel loved by Him in a special way.

 

[seventysevens]

OH, now you attacked even bigger. "What is wrong with you" is an aggressive attack on a person. Any person. You do not see this, do you? Instead of apologizing, you lauch a stronger attack. .

I said NOTHING to attack anyone - you did not even say what it was - just like you call a question asking what is wrong and attack
Is your lack of understanding-
Telling straight out - don't respond to me at all , no longer interested it is OVER and DONE

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I said NOTHING to attack anyone - you did not even say what it was - just like you call a question asking what is wrong and attack
Is your lack of understanding-
Telling straight out - don't respond to me at all , no longer interested it is OVER and DONE

Wrong. How come you don’t see it? I actually told you in a manner used to instruct my children that saying “what is wrong with you” is a personal attack. Why didn’t you see that? “What is wrong” is ok. “What is wrong WITH YOU” assumes the person IS stupid or something similar? I notice you edited out “with you” in reporting your own speech.

This is a case of the heart deceiving the self. Anyone reading the exchange can see clearly the heart but the person themselves is deceived.

As anyone can see, I have some understanding both of the subject and the human heart.

If you want to talk anymore, it’s Ok. This was a useful example in how the heart deceived the owner but others can see it easily. People think their hearts are hidden from men hen they’re really only hidden from them.

 

[Eloy Craft]

I think Jesus describes the world working out it's own salvation. It succeeds when there isn't even a rumor of a war. Then it will be like this;
Luke 17
28 Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot: they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, 29 but on the day that Lot left Sodom, it rained fire and sulfur from heaven and destroyed all of them 30

That's the time when human kind believes it is self sufficient and has worked out it's own salvation. that is for them, survival of the species. In their minds there is no need for a God that holds back the beast. The morals established by Christ are like a deadened conscience to them. The inhabitants of the earth reach a permanent state of rebellion against God. They made an image of the beast and the man of sin has sat on the throne for generations hidden in their darkness. For them, darkness is light and indeed, how dark is their darkness. They have worshiped the beast, breathed life into it's image. Those with the mark on their hands followed those with the mark on their forehead and established the peace that the world gives. The peace of the prince of this world. That is happening already. The beast is worshiped today. His followers are building the culture that ushers in the peace that the world gives.