If trying to convert a Hindu...

[Macarius]

Hinduism teaches that you should not harm any living creature. Man should live his life according to his dharma. However, if dharma is threatened and wickedness starts to arise, then it must be fought against.

So then we are agreed - Hinduism does not teach pacifism / non-violence. It teaches that aggressive war and needless killing is wrong (good!) but it doesn't teach that all violence is wrong.

I don't get the point that you are trying to make here: Orthodox Christianity allows fighting in a "just war" and is not totally pacifist, so why are you bringing up this point?

Because I think you misrepresented Hinduism in an effort to make it sound more palatable to a Western ear and I wanted to clarify for accuracy. Like I said in my last post, this wasn't meant to judge Hinduism one way or another - just to make sure we were being accurate with regards to it.

I never said Christianity was pacifistic. Catholicism has "just war theory" - you don't find that in Orthodoxy. We certainly DO have a history of empires that use war a great deal (Byzantium and Russia come to mind); so you won't find me calling pacifism holy tradition. Pacficism certainly IS a permissable belief of both Hinduism and Orthodoxy (one is not required to support war / violence), as there have been numerous Hindu and Orthodox heroes / saints who were pacifists.

Finally - there is a tu quoque falacy embeded in your comment here. Even if Orthodoxy preached war and Hinduism preached war, IF war is wrong, then both are wrong. It's not enough to say "Well - YOU DO IT TOO!!" and expect that to convince me that the thing in question is right. It just makes us both hypocrites.

Hope that clarifies!

And it was a Buddhist nation that bombed your US Naval Base at Pearl Harbour during WW2.

So we are to equate the actions of nations claiming to follow a certain religion WITH THE RELIGION ITSELF? Do you really want to go there?

I mean, I have no great love of Buddhism (though I do respect it a great deal) - and technically, Japan is Shinto with a Buddhist twist (mostly Zen and Pure Land at that). By WWII, Japan was barely even religious. It remains one of the most secular societies on the planet.

But that's beside the point. Buddhism, in its doctrine, is pacifistic. Sometimes people assume that ALL eastern religions are pacifistic. It just isn't true. Hinduism isn't; Confucianism and Taoism aren't... I just want accuracy.

Such situations will most likely never arise in the average Hindu's life. So he should do his best to refrain from killing other living creatures.

Doesn't change the overall teaching and history of the religion. Calling Hinduism non-violent is misrepresenting its holy texts and history. It sounds really nice when trying to win a discussion on an internet forum, but it just isn't true. You can say it discourages aggression and killing, and teaches the respect of life, but you HAVE to qualify it (as you now have) by saying that it encourages violence if it is necessary to preserve or follow dharma.

And for those of you who are still wondering about the caste/varna system, here is an extensive explanation of it.

Thanks!

In Christ,
Macarius

 

[Lukaris]

Ya, he is just correcting us where we are wrong. Which is good. Knowledge is good.

So... question. Hindus believe all paths lead to God. We do not. Where do those other paths lead, then, if they are sincere and love God in their own way?

Actually I wonder if this individual is for real at all since I now remember seeing his posts in OrthodoxChristianity.net and in less than 2 years he has recorded conversions from Roman Catholicism, to Orthodox, to Islam, & now to Hinduism what will be next? http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=13097.45

 

[Lukaris]

Actually I wonder if this individual is for real at all since I now remember seeing his posts in OrthodoxChristianity.net and in less than 2 years he has recorded conversions from Roman Catholicism, to Orthodox, to Islam, & now to Hinduism what will be next? Is this some running gag?

Let me add the record shows he had converted to Roman Catholicism also.

 

[Julina]

he still mentions Hinduism though. from what i read it looks like he went from Islam to Hinduism, and now he's considering Catholicism. but what do i kno.

 

[buzuxi02]

So Justin Hesychast of the original post, in asking about how to answer a hindu and how to convert one, has all along been talking about Michaelarchangelos

 

[rcscwc]

Voistinu Voskrese!


Everything started with a Big Bang, and the Universe is expanding. It will forever expand and will not be destroyed but will just cool off eventually when all stars will lose their light.

No hard proofs.BB is not the last word.

Actually, multiple universe hypothesis does not go well with Creation,

So be it. If multiverses are then they are, and creation be scrapped formally.

since God created the world at some set point.

No proof of that. In fact there is no proof of existence of god even. Btw, what was the said god doing before that said "set" point of time?

Multiple universes does not necessarily give you a set starting point, but you can speculate that the process is eternal.

It is eternal.

And to comment on your question, in my view is you have to stress on the moral aspects of Orthodox beliefs.

As if Hindus are imkmoeral by default. Are they?

Tell them that the center of our beliefs is love, charity, kindness, self-sacrifice, humility, generocity, forgiveness, joy and peace,

Great. Perhaps Hindus do not know these values. That so?

Take them to the church, and they should feel the grace that fills the soul during the service, esp the Saturday Vespers service.

How? Drag them? Like in bible: fill my church by force sort?

read the Saints' lives and counsels, and pray.

Like Aquinas, who justified inquisition, slavery? like pope pius who initiated crusades. Like Xevier who initiate inquisition against Hindus? Like Moses who abducted 32.000 virgins [tell Hindus that their virgins too can be biblically abducted], or Joshua [tell Hindus plainly they stand to be exterminated]?

 

[rcscwc]

How is it that the caste system works for the good of the culture? And how does the caste system explain a world outside of India. If we are all born into a caste based on our past life, what caste am I? What caste are you? The system of course was created before there was contact with the outside world, so they only had to explain their own group, not the rest of the world, but how does it make sense in light of today? Are only Indians reincarnated?

One by one in that order.

By making co-hesive units.
Same way as different sects of xianity do.
Who told you are born in a caste due to your past life? Are you born into a sect like that?
Does it matter?
It makes sense to the Hindus. Period. If it does not make sense to you, so what?

All are.

PS: How do these questions induce a Hindu to convert?

A bit of both, Julina. Mostly curiosity.

Curious to know why xianity is not making headway with Hindus? These methods fail.

I was not approaching the subject from the Protestant perspective, try to put yourself in the shoes of the Hindu.

The Hindu doesn't have your understanding, ...

Are Hindus mentally challenged?

 

[rcscwc]

A few things.

1) You cannot convert to Hinduism. You must be born into it. So MichaelArchengles may be playing dress up, but he is not a Hindu.

Whether MA is or is not a Hindu will not convert a Hindu. You can become a Hindu, try like MA.

2) If you want to convert Hindus, start hanging out with the Untouchables. They'll probably be the most receptive.

Hmmm. Really? They should have been converted yesterday. But even they do not touch you. Where did you fail?

3) If you think the caste system is a good thing, you should read more about it.

Yeah, read more about it and in depth, whether you like it or not.

 

[rcscwc]

Hinduism thinks it is a piece of cloth that your true self - the atman - wears for a time. It MUST believe this to believe in reincarnation - since those who reincarnate cast off their body and the end of one life to put on another body.


In Christ,
Macarius

As usual for a xian with a shallow knowledge of Hinduism. Hindus do not believe that this body needs to be thrown off. Motto of Yoga philosophy: Sound mind ONLY in a sound body. You you conyest this motto?

One of these religions (Hinduism) is dis-embodied. That denies the essential goodness of God's creation - the goodness of THIS life.

That from a xian who believes man is born a sinner? Hindus believe every one is born GOOD. Difference.

If man is born a sinner, how is your god's creation good? Who caused evil? Biblegod. Who created satan? Biblegod!!!

The other believes that Christ came to save THIS life. Not another. THIS one. And not some other you - Christ cares about you AS HE MADE you. YOU. That includes your body. Take a look at your body sometime, and see it with the love of God.

How "THIS LIFE" is saved? Do you become immortals? Heck, NOOOO.

That's a beginning to our rejection of reincarnation.

Seen lots of xians arguing for it!!

If reincarnation is true - then why the incarnation? why the cross? They make no sense - yet they happened. More food for thought.

Of course senseless. Or you must accept incarnation, reincarnation etc.

... but in our main forum defense of Hinduism is not welcome. I don't think anyone would object to a brief correction of an out-and-out error on the topic, but this is Orthodox territory.

Why? Are you afraid of corrections in your errors? Or is it the (in)famous xian tolerance?

Better post it where I can explain better. Don't hide.

 

[Aesjn]

Ohh... zombie thread.

 

[Aesjn]

Since the thread is already zombified...

As usual for a xian with a shallow knowledge of Hinduism. Hindus do not believe that this body needs to be thrown off. Motto of Yoga philosophy: Sound mind ONLY in a sound body. You you conyest this motto?

Some Hindu sects do definitely believe the body has to be thrown off. For basically every idea you can imagine, there is a Hindu group that believes in it. Advaita, dvaita, impersonal god, personal god, seeking transcendence from this world or becoming indifferent to the vicissitudes of it.

That from a xian who believes man is born a sinner? Hindus believe every one is born GOOD. Difference.
If man is born a sinner, how is your god's creation good? Who caused evil? Biblegod. Who created satan? Biblegod!!!

Obviously you know nothing of Orthodox Christianity, Orthodoxy doesn't believe man is born a sinner or evil.

You really can't make this argument without criticising your own religion - if you try to disparage Christianity in this way then Hinduism is even worse. If Hindu gods created the world, they still created a world with the same exact qualities attributed to the Christian god - a world with death, war, evil and strife present in it. Whether you call god Yahweh or Brahman or Krsna there's no way getting around this. At least in the Christian system there is supposed to be an end to evil, in Hinduism it's just a constant cycle - evil may go away for a time, but it will come back.

 

[rcscwc]

Since the thread is already zombified...



Some Hindu sects do definitely believe the body has to be thrown off. For basically every idea you can imagine, there is a Hindu group that believes in it. Advaita, dvaita, impersonal god, personal god, seeking transcendence from this world or becoming indifferent to the vicissitudes of it.

Obviously you know nothing of Orthodox Christianity, Orthodoxy doesn't believe man is born a sinner or evil.

You really can't make this argument without criticising your own religion - if you try to disparage Christianity in this way then Hinduism is even worse. If Hindu gods created the world, they still created a world with the same exact qualities attributed to the Christian god - a world with death, war, evil and strife present in it. Whether you call god Yahweh or Brahman or Krsna there's no way getting around this. At least in the Christian system there is supposed to be an end to evil, in Hinduism it's just a constant cycle - evil may go away for a time, but it will come back.

yhwh created the world with evil. Augustine: Evil is not good, but it is good to have evil. So evil is a good necessasity for Yhwh. Hence xianity can never get rid of it. Satan is going about thumbing his nose.

Brahma did nor create evil, man becomes evil by his own doings. Be a good man and get out of the cycle.

Death is NOT evil

 

[Aesjn]

yhwh created the world with evil. Augustine: Evil is not good, but it is good to have evil. So evil is a good necessasity for Yhwh. Hence xianity can never get rid of it. Satan is going about thumbing his nose.

Brahma did nor create evil, man becomes evil by his own doings. Be a good man and get out of the cycle.

Death is NOT evil

You fail when you get to Augustine, his teaches are not, despite the perception of most people, universally accepted or considered dogma and the Orthodox church does not believe in them. Before Augustine came up with his ideas no one held them, and Oriental and Eastern Orthodox churches do not hold them.

 

[Aesjn]

Death is NOT evil

I don't think it is, but that is besides the point. Whatever god there is, it has allowed evil to exist or else it would not be. The only thing that sets religions apart is whether they think evil will one day cease to be, or whether the propensity for it to occur will always be present.

 

[rcscwc]

I don't think it is, but that is besides the point. Whatever god there is, it has allowed evil to exist or else it would not be. The only thing that sets religions apart is whether they think evil will one day cease to be, or whether the propensity for it to occur will always be present.

Simple. Try not to be evil, don't nurture your evil tendencies, promote good ones. What is the problem?

 

[Aesjn]

Simple. Try not to be evil, don't nurture your evil tendencies, promote good ones. What is the problem?

Nothing, you're not replying to what was actually said. You tried to present Jesus/Yahweh as evil or bad and I was replying to that not what kind choices people can make.

 

[Andrew21091]

yhwh created the world with evil. Augustine: Evil is not good, but it is good to have evil. So evil is a good necessasity for Yhwh. Hence xianity can never get rid of it. Satan is going about thumbing his nose.

First off, as Aesjn said, we Orthodox do not accept Augustine and his teachings.

Brahma did nor create evil, man becomes evil by his own doings. Be a good man and get out of the cycle.

This is the same thing that Christianity, Judaism, and Islam (I think) teach. God created the world and man perfect, but by man's own devices, he fell from perfection which happened during the fall of humanity which is illustrated in Eve eating the fruit off of the tree.

Death is NOT evil

The Orthodox Church believes that when Christ was crucified, He died for creation and renewing it, so when a person's body dies, the soul goes to God and awaits the general resurrection at Christ second coming. We don't see dying as a bad thing either since we know that only the body dies but the soul is immortal.