If there is no time in heaven how can they say eternity...eternity is forever but if there is no time how long is forever?
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If there is no Time how can there be an eternity?
- Thread starter Screamin-GOD-Till-I-Die
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- Feb 24, 2002
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Look at it this way, in Heaven, it always "now".
Gee, come to think of it, it's always "Now" on earth too.......
Gee, come to think of it, it's always "Now" on earth too.......
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- Feb 24, 2002
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Not only does eternity have no end, it has no beginning.
Eternity isn't something that will "Begin" one day in the future, It is here now.
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How about a teeny bit of "Einsteinian Science"???
Consider the equation:
T' = Tº (1 - V²/C²)[sup]½[/sup]
This is the "time dialation relativity equation", stating that as velocity V approaches the speed-of-light C, time (relative to the Universe) approaches zero. With me?
LIM (V -> C) = 0
( T' )
OK, now define time for a PHOTON (particle of light). It is, by definition, moving at the speed of light; so then its time, relative to US, is ZERO. In a sigularity, an-infinitely-thin-instant, ALL ETERNITY PASSES for that photon. Can you define time for it?
You see, we view the Universe based on what we understand. And there is so much that we do not yet understand...
Consider the equation:
T' = Tº (1 - V²/C²)[sup]½[/sup]
This is the "time dialation relativity equation", stating that as velocity V approaches the speed-of-light C, time (relative to the Universe) approaches zero. With me?
LIM (V -> C) = 0
( T' )
OK, now define time for a PHOTON (particle of light). It is, by definition, moving at the speed of light; so then its time, relative to US, is ZERO. In a sigularity, an-infinitely-thin-instant, ALL ETERNITY PASSES for that photon. Can you define time for it?
You see, we view the Universe based on what we understand. And there is so much that we do not yet understand...
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Eternity and the infinite, same thing? no beginning or end. time is part of the created order, right?
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Just my 2 cents worth, but as I see it, eternity is not an existence we can have 'in time'. Eternity is the place where the full revelation of all things must occur. It is the place and existence in which things FULLY express their very natures.
Imagine two regions that are 'parallel' to each other (divided by a line that goes on and on ...). Below the line, you have existence as we understand it. Basically a timeline of events from the beginning of Creation to the end of time (or whatever). As you go from left to right (or right to left if you prefer), things unfold. They occur in time. If you were in that existence you would see things through the eyes of time. You would have to see things happen over a period of time and you would gradually get to know the nature of things. A relationship for example. You would find someone, talk with them, get to know them better and better over time. You don't meet them and immediately 'know' them fully. It takes walking through time (from left to right or right to left in this region I speak of).
Now, the second region, above us, is a region where things exist in their fulness. There is no such arrow called time that constrains you from going from right to left or left to right to see things unfold. They just ARE. You see someone who is a loving person - in this realm (above the line) as soon as you see them, you know them fully because they are out of time. Their natures are fully expressed without being constrained by time to have to be unfolded. They ARE loving and you know that fully just by their existence. Yet out of time, if it is you looking at someone else, then you take up 'space'. The 'space' you take up out of time (above the line) can then be taken below the line (in time) and the 'space' taken up above the line (in eternity) then translates to space taken up in time (the length of time taken to get to know that person fully).
So when you get out of time, there is no unfolding, there is no watching things change - you see things as they are because time is not unfolding them to you.
Make ANY sense?
(I think I am describing hyperspace, but I'm not sure...)
Imagine two regions that are 'parallel' to each other (divided by a line that goes on and on ...). Below the line, you have existence as we understand it. Basically a timeline of events from the beginning of Creation to the end of time (or whatever). As you go from left to right (or right to left if you prefer), things unfold. They occur in time. If you were in that existence you would see things through the eyes of time. You would have to see things happen over a period of time and you would gradually get to know the nature of things. A relationship for example. You would find someone, talk with them, get to know them better and better over time. You don't meet them and immediately 'know' them fully. It takes walking through time (from left to right or right to left in this region I speak of).
Now, the second region, above us, is a region where things exist in their fulness. There is no such arrow called time that constrains you from going from right to left or left to right to see things unfold. They just ARE. You see someone who is a loving person - in this realm (above the line) as soon as you see them, you know them fully because they are out of time. Their natures are fully expressed without being constrained by time to have to be unfolded. They ARE loving and you know that fully just by their existence. Yet out of time, if it is you looking at someone else, then you take up 'space'. The 'space' you take up out of time (above the line) can then be taken below the line (in time) and the 'space' taken up above the line (in eternity) then translates to space taken up in time (the length of time taken to get to know that person fully).
So when you get out of time, there is no unfolding, there is no watching things change - you see things as they are because time is not unfolding them to you.
Make ANY sense?
(I think I am describing hyperspace, but I'm not sure...)
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Who says there is no time in heaven?
Sure there is. Why in fact, Jehovah God has an appointed time to destroy the wicked people off the face of the earth. Only the righteous will survive.
And who says that those in heaven cannot die? Satan and his demons (who originated in heaven) have an appointed time to be executed.
The important thing is to find out what does God require of us. And then for us to do it.
Sincerely, Lared
Sure there is. Why in fact, Jehovah God has an appointed time to destroy the wicked people off the face of the earth. Only the righteous will survive.
And who says that those in heaven cannot die? Satan and his demons (who originated in heaven) have an appointed time to be executed.
The important thing is to find out what does God require of us. And then for us to do it.
Sincerely, Lared
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Lared,
The question of time in heaven is not that it doesn't exist, but that it doesn't have the same meaning there. Time, in the spiritual dimension, is not as we think of it. What appears as (for example) a single object in 'heaven' must be revealed over time in our existence. It's the same reason that Jesus was slain from the foundations of the world but that we didn't see the outworking until 2000 years ago. Time in the presence of God is nothing. We relate to something happening in time, but to God it is already finished and accomplished. He knows the end from the beginning already!
The question of time in heaven is not that it doesn't exist, but that it doesn't have the same meaning there. Time, in the spiritual dimension, is not as we think of it. What appears as (for example) a single object in 'heaven' must be revealed over time in our existence. It's the same reason that Jesus was slain from the foundations of the world but that we didn't see the outworking until 2000 years ago. Time in the presence of God is nothing. We relate to something happening in time, but to God it is already finished and accomplished. He knows the end from the beginning already!
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Time is part of our universe... it has been proved to be integral to our existance and hence God obviously must work in our time to interact with us. that doesn't mean that he actually follows time, or at least time in our sense of the word.
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Very good---your explanation describes the difference between "linear existence" and "parallel existence". (Ever watch Deep Space Nine?)
There are those who believe that the Universe is composed of a single fundamental particle; and time is not linear, but prescribes a great circle (which appears linear because we are so small in comparison to the circumference); thus our "fundamental particle" circles again and again forming the vastness of matter...
I have a suspicion that once IN hyperspace, a simple "left turn" will present time as a PHYSICAL DIMENSION---as easily traversed as your front yard...
(Or "right turn" if you want to go to TOMORROW...)
For those who reject God, and postulate a "continuous universe" (alternately "banging" and "collapsing"), consider a BLACK HOLE---it can be imagined as a two-dimensional rubber sheet, with a dent into the third dimension (and extrapolating that the SHEET is THREE DIMENSIONS and the DENT is into the FOURTH SPATIAL dimension). With me? As your "black hole" sucks up more and more matter, its mass increases, denting the rubber sheet more and more. Eventually, the "inverse square" law manifests (gravity falls off with the square of the distance from a mass)--- the DENT begins to become TEAR-SHAPED. And then approaches SPHERICAL. There comes a time when the BH reaches critical mass---and the warpage of space is complete into a SPHERE; the rubber sheet POPS back flat again, and the sphere is buried beneath the sheet. Again, if the SHEET is really NORMAL SPACE, then your singularity (BH) has just DROPPED OUT OF THE UNIVERSE!!! You can be at the exact physical position and never detect it. (Though it might make HYPERSPACE hazardous in its vecinity...)
The MASS of the Universe is not constant. There can be no "continuous Universe"...
This is good; I don't think people realize how much a part of our Universe time is; I suspect time is not linear, but exponential. If so, alottastuff happened VERY QUICKLY at the beginning... (Which, if you were a PART of that Universe, would have appeared quite linear at the time---but non-linear viewed from a later (psuedo-linear-part-of-the-exponential-curve); does that make sense???)
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