If the Senate had Impeached Trump, Mike Pence could be President-Elect

[JimR-OCDS]

Better products, better prices.

No they weren't better and they were only cheaper because the Japanese Government subsidized the companies so they could undercut the US companies.

I was in the hi-tech business and watched it happen.

Of course the Japanese then watched as Vietnam and parts of China started doing the same to them. They wanted US intervention

 

[Andrewn]

Ross Perot had warned that if NAFTA were approved, you'll hear a loud sucking sound as US jobs move to Mexico.

Is it better to get Mexicans employed in Mexico or migrating to the US for jobs?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Is it better to get Mexicans employed in Mexico or migrating to the US for jobs?

Ross Perot was addressing American jobs leaving the US, which ended up happening. Millions of Americans lost their jobs.

As I posted earlier, the plant the company I worked for located in Mexico, never made a dime. Their work quality was horrible. So, the company relocated it to Singapore.

 

[Andrewn]

As I posted earlier, the plant the company I worked for located in Mexico and never made a dime. They work quality there was horrible. So, they relocated it to Singapore.

Right, but I assume other companies were able to make money and stay in Mexico. In your personal opinion, is it a good idea to help Mexico's labor force stay in Mexico?

 

[seeking.IAM]

Part of the problem in the U.S. is that everyone thinks they should live in a nice house with a three car garage, drive the latest model shiny SUV, and have a standard of living to which they feel entitled. They aren't willing to make wage concessions to retain jobs but then complain when jobs move to other countries. Capitalism requires profit to pay shareholders, as well as re-investing in product development and company infrastructure. I think greed sometimes gets in the way of U.S. job retention, both from the side of corporations and their workers.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Right, but I assume other companies were able to make money and stay in Mexico. In your personal opinion, is it a good idea to help Mexico's labor force stay in Mexico?

Mostly companies that didn't require much in the way of skill.

I worked in hi-tech and the plant in Mexico was making keyboards. That was moved to Asia and the quality improved 100%.

Also, the crime at the plant for American managers going down there to try and work things out, was horrendous.

 

[Dale]

Definition of hearsay | Dictionary.com

That is why.




Hard evidence definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary

That is what I call hard evidence.



President Trump Impeachment -- Ukraine Didn't Realize U.S. Withheld Aid Until One Month After Call: Report | National Review

It is true.

Add that to:

Ukrainian President Denies President Trump Pressured Him

HisLegacy: << President Trump Impeachment -- Ukraine Didn't Realize U.S. Withheld Aid Until One Month After Call: Report | National Review

It is true. >>



I don't need you to define hearsay, I need you to tell me how it applies to this case.

US aid to Ukraine was definitely paused in 2019 for the wrong reasons.


Take a look at this story.

Here’s what you need to know about the US aid package to Ukraine that Trump delayed
By: Joe Gould and Howard Altman   September 25, 2019



<< At the center of the latest scandal threatening to take down President Donald Trump is $391 million in military aid that the U.S. leader reportedly asked his staff to freeze for two months before dropping the hold a week ago, under pressure from lawmakers. >>

and

<< According to a memorandum of the call released by the White House, Zelenskiy asked to buy American-made Javelin anti-tank weapons, and Trump asked Zelenskiy to help him work with U.S. officials to investigate political rivals. >>


<< Not only does withholding that assistance potentially send a signal to Russia that the U.S. is not as concerned about Russian occupation of Ukraine, but the suddenness ... >>


HisLegacy,

You dismiss all allegations against Donald Trump as "hearsay" but they are taken seriously by members of Congress, who know all about hearsay. They are also being taken seriously by credible sources in the media, such as the one I am quoting, which is defensenews.com.


Here’s what you need to know about the US aid package to Ukraine that Trump delayed

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Part of the problem in the U.S. is that everyone thinks they should live in a nice house with a three car garage, drive the latest model shiny SUV, and have a standard of living to which they feel entitled. They aren't willing to make wage concessions to retain jobs but then complain when jobs move to other countries. Capitalism requires profit to pay shareholders, as well as re-investing in product development and company infrastructure. I think greed sometimes gets in the way of U.S. job retention, both from the side of corporations and their workers.

No one should be forced to make wage concessions so everyone has equal outcome.

Equal opportunity, yes, but there will always be differences in skills and abilities which will keep equal outcomes impossible.

In a free society, those with skills and work ethic do well. You can't have equal outcome results with the government trying to remove the incentives for people who are smart and work hard to succeed. The Soviet Union and Mao's China tried it with disastrous results.

 

[hislegacy]

You dismiss all allegations against Donald Trump as "hearsay" but they are taken seriously by members of Congress, who know all about hearsay.

In reality, it was taken 'seriously" only by Democratic members of Congress, who know all about hearsay because they were the ONLY ones promoting it.

It was the fourth attempt at impeaching the President and they went so far as stating that they will do it again.

Democrat Claims Trump Could Be Impeached 'More Than Once'

 

[hislegacy]

And again:

President Trump Impeachment -- Ukraine Didn't Realize U.S. Withheld Aid Until One Month After Call: Report | National Review

It is really hard to threaten someone with holding aid as a leverage to get something you want, when they were not even aware that the aid was being withheld. Then the funds were released with the Ukrainians doing exactly NOTHING.

 

[seeking.IAM]

Part of the problem in the U.S. is that everyone thinks they should live in a nice house with a three car garage, drive the latest model shiny SUV, and have a standard of living to which they feel entitled. They aren't willing to make wage concessions to retain jobs but then complain when jobs move to other countries.... .

No one should be forced to make wage concessions so everyone has equal outcome...

The only outcome I was talking about is keeping jobs in America. If companies can reduce manufacturing costs while achieving equal or better outcomes, they maximize profits benefiting shareholders and the company as a whole. That's capitalism.

 

[Dale]

In reality, it was taken 'seriously" only by Democratic members of Congress, who know all about hearsay because they were the ONLY ones promoting it.

It was the fourth attempt at impeaching the President and they went so far as stating that they will do it again.

Democrat Claims Trump Could Be Impeached 'More Than Once'

I don't know what you mean by the "fourth attempt" at impeachment. Most impeachment bills filed in the House go nowhere. That is no secret.

It's not a question of Democrats "promoting" this scenario, it's a question of looking at the facts.
Since 1950, the US has almost always been at odds with Russia. We have every reason to symphatize with the Ukraine when Russia invades their territory and demands other concessions.

 

[Albion]

I don't know what you mean by the "fourth attempt" at impeachment. Most impeachment bills filed in the House go nowhere. That is no secret.

I think the reference was to four attempts to sell an accusation that could be used to launch a serious impeachment effort. These have been listed before.

In the end, you remember that the radicals came up empty and so just impeached for 'good cause' or something else as unspecific as that.

 

[hislegacy]

It's not a question of Democrats "promoting" this scenario, it's a question of looking at the facts.

And facts are what was missing - every witness, under cross examination, testified they had no first hand knowledge.

 

[Dale]

I think the reference was to four attempts to sell an accusation that could be used to launch a serious impeachment effort. These have been listed before.

In the end, you remember that the radicals came up empty and so just impeached for 'good cause' or something else as unspecific as that.

There are no "radicals" involved. You made that up.

 

[hislegacy]

In the end, you remember that the radicals came up empty and so just impeached for 'good cause' or something else as unspecific as that.

QFT

 

[Dale]

I think the reference was to four attempts to sell an accusation that could be used to launch a serious impeachment effort. These have been listed before.

In the end, you remember that the radicals came up empty and so just impeached for 'good cause' or something else as unspecific as that.

This isn't true. From the Impeachment Resolution, Article I, Abuse of Power


<< Using the powers of his high office, President Trump solicited the interference of a
foreign government, Ukraine, in the 2020 United States Presidential election. He did so
through a scheme or course of conduct that included soliciting the Government of Ukraine
to publicly announce investigations that would benefit his reelection, harm the election
prospects of a political opponent, and influence the 2020 United States Presidential election
to his advantage. >>

Under Article II, Obstruction of Congress:

<< President Trump abused the powers of his high office through the following means:
(1) Directing the White House to defy a lawful subpoena by withholding the
production of documents sought therein by the Committees.
(2) Directing other Executive Branch agencies and offices to defy lawful
subpoenas and withhold the production of documents and records from the
Committees—in response to which the Department of State, Office of Management
and Budget, Department of Energy, and Department of Defense refused to produce
a single document or record. >>

Link
https://www.congress.gov/116/bills/hres755/BILLS-116hres755enr.pdf

 

[Albion]

Oh right. "Obstruction of Congress " LOL.

Half the people on Capitol Hill could have come up with that statement over their lunch hours.

Only days before someone sat down and composed it, the House's plotters were going to make something else be the alleged reason for the impeachment that they had been planning for four years.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

This isn't true. From the Impeachment Resolution, Article I, Abuse of Power


<< Using the powers of his high office, President Trump solicited the interference of a
foreign government, Ukraine, in the 2020 United States Presidential election. He did so
through a scheme or course of conduct that included soliciting the Government of Ukraine
to publicly announce investigations that would benefit his reelection, harm the election
prospects of a political opponent, and influence the 2020 United States Presidential election
to his advantage. >>

Under Article II, Obstruction of Congress:

<< President Trump abused the powers of his high office through the following means:
(1) Directing the White House to defy a lawful subpoena by withholding the
production of documents sought therein by the Committees.
(2) Directing other Executive Branch agencies and offices to defy lawful
subpoenas and withhold the production of documents and records from the
Committees—in response to which the Department of State, Office of Management
and Budget, Department of Energy, and Department of Defense refused to produce
a single document or record. >>

Link
https://www.congress.gov/116/bills/hres755/BILLS-116hres755enr.pdf

As I understand it, the subpoenas were never made through the courts because they would've been rejected.

It's why Trump didn't hand them over as the Legislative Branch would be encroaching on the Executive Branch.

 

[Dale]

Oh right. "Obstruction of Congress " LOL.

Half the people on Capitol Hill could have come up with that statement over their lunch hours.

Only days before someone sat down and composed it, the House's plotters were going to make something else be the alleged reason for the impeachment that they had been planning for four years.

Albion, you seem to think that Contempt of Congress is a joke. It is not.

Here is an example from the Teapot Dome scandal. Harry F. Sinclair was President of Sinclair Consolidated Oil Corporation as well as the owner of the Mammoth Oil Company.

"In March 1927, a one-day trial found Sinclair guilty of contempt of the Senate for refusing to answer committee questions. He was sentenced to three months in jail."

Sinclair was later convicted of jury tampering and contempt of court as well and sentenced to six months in prison for that.

The Teapot Dome prosecutor, Owen J. Roberts, was appointed to the Supreme Court by President Herbert Hoover. Roberts served on the Supreme Court from 1930 to 1945.

Yes, people are sent to prison for refusing to answer questions before a committee of Congress. This applies whether they show up and don't answer the questions or whether they refuse to produce documents.


Link
The Teapot Dome Trials: 1926-30 | Encyclopedia.com