If the Senate had Impeached Trump, Mike Pence could be President-Elect

[miamited]

Hi albion,

Thanks for your reply:

I am wise enough that I can still appreciate the work that President Obama and his administration did to bring us back from that precipice edge.

... and out of that sentence you gleaned that this was some claim that I was making that President Obama had done some wonderful thing for GM. Well, I suppose since GM was one of the recipients of the TARP funding, that's true. However, they were only one of hundreds and I certainly didn't make that comment to intend that GM was somehow receiving some 'wonderful' benefit from the program.

The TARP stimulus under the Obama administration, was a much better stimulus package than the Trump administration has put together. Trump's stimulus package (the first one) carried with it a cost of some $2T. The Obama stimulus package totaled out at about $900B and about half of all that money was recovered through the selling of the warrants obtained when the money was given to corporations. So ultimately the Obama stimulus cost the country about $500B. Trump's stimulus has so far cost us $2T and the legislature is talking about giving more, but that's not a sure thing yet. However none of that $2T is coming back to the treasury. Further, a lot of people received the Trump stimulus that didn't need it.

I'm retired. My income stays the same no matter whether businesses are temporarily shut down or not. My investment income might suffer, but I'm patient and I know it will come back just like it did after the last crisis. My son has a good job and didn't lose an hour of work through all of this. In fact, financially he's doing better than he was because he's been given a work from home order. He doesn't use gas driving to and from the office and he doesn't eat out every day with all the guys in his office. He doesn't need a babysitter for his 8 month old. Yet, he got a $600.00 stimulus check. Why? I got a $1,200 stimulus check. Why?

Had Trump done what needed to be done, which is what China did, to fight the Covid-19 virus, we'd have been done and over with this disastrous pandemic quite awhile ago. Do you even realize that China, the place where it all started, took very, very drastic measures and so far their total death tally, with a population that is four times ours, is right now at just over 4,600 deaths. They locked down severely and put in place very, very strict mask requirements and broke the transmission pattern. Had we done that, we would have had one short period of a very hard lockdown, for which a stimulus package would have been needed, but then we would have been through it with everyone wearing masks still today.

Japan, with a population total one third of ours, has only had 1,900+ deaths. Asian nations took this pandemic very, very seriously. They had been through it before and they knew the best way to handle it. Trump was dumb enough to fire anyone, or ignore anyone, that didn't agree with him.

Trump never had the wisdom to understand what this pandemic was really all about. Which is stopping people from breathing on one another. And now we are seeing just exactly what a pouting, sulking 'leader' Trump is. He's just decided to let the nation go to hell and he's going golfing. He has even said that he wants to make it as difficult as he can for the incoming Biden administration. See ya!!!!!

So, believe what you will, but I'm confident that President Obama was much wiser in dealing with his particular crisis than Trump was in dealing with his. President Obama put together a team of financial experts and listened to their advice. Trump doesn't do that about anything, unless of course the advice he's given is in agreement with what he already believes in his gut is the truth, because he thinks of himself as being a very, very smart person. He isn't! He is majorly unwise.

China, Japan and myself, have always known that the key to attacking this pandemic is to stop people from breathing directly on one another. Trump still hasn't figured that out and hundreds of thousands of people are dying needlessly because of his stupidity and bull headedness.

And yet, through all of his failures and all of his lying and so many of our nation dying needlessly...some think he's God's second son.

God bless,
ted

 

[Andrewn]

The discussion between myself and RWF merely centered on the work that the Obama administration did during the mortgage financial meltdown and whether or not what he did was a good thing. I believe that it was and pointed out that the Obama stimulus plan actually made money because the government took warrants against the loans that were being made. Those warrants, when sold, netted the government more money than they put into the program to start with.

I remember many Republicans being against saving GM. Just imagine the US without national car industry? In addition, GM is involved in military production. They even produced respirators during Covid pandemic!

Democrats were smart enough to save GM.

I'm retired. My income stays the same no matter whether businesses are temporarily shut down or not. My investment income might suffer, but I'm patient and I know it will come back just like it did after the last crisis. My son has a good job and didn't lose an hour of work through all of this. In fact, financially he's doing better than he was because he's been given a work from home order. He doesn't use gas driving to and from the office and he doesn't eat out every day with all the guys in his office. He doesn't need a babysitter for his 8 month old. Yet, he got a $600.00 stimulus check. Why? I got a $1,200 stimulus check. Why?

A bribe to reelect Trump?

China, Japan and myself, have always known that the key to attacking this pandemic is to stop people from breathing directly on one another. Trump still hasn't figured that out and hundreds of thousands of people are dying needlessly because of his stupidity and bull headedness.

You can add Australia to this list. They currently have 0 new cases.

 

[miamited]

Hi andrewn,

Thanks for your response:

A bribe to reelect Trump?

I can assure everyone that in my case, it didn't work. I voted for Biden in the presidential race and Harrison in the South Carolina Senate race. Sadly, South Carolina is a Republican stronghold and neither of them won the ticket here. Of course, with someone as wishy-washy as Graham as our Senator, it isn't surprising that they wanted to keep Trump. Fortunately, the nation as a whole, overrode our presidential selection.

God bless,
ted

 

[Redwingfan9]

You are claiming that Trump was being funny when he talked about Russia hacking Hillary Clinton's email. Does Trump even have a sense of humor? With all the video they put out of him, I can't remember seeing him give an honest laugh.


Does Donald Trump have a sense of humor?
October 11, 2016

<< Comedy Central's senior vice president Jonas Larsen admitted Trump struggled with understanding humor: "One thing that stuck out to me during rehearsal is he would always poll the people around him if they thought it was funny." >>

Does Donald Trump have a sense of humor?


Donald Trump has no sense of humor, says niece Mary Trump
Sun Online Desk
17th July, 2020 07:37:11


Donald Trump has no sense of humor, says niece Mary Trump | daily sun


Al Franken: Donald Trump has no sense of humor, isn't "funny at all"
By Charlie May
August 22, 2017 6:53PM (UTC)


Al Franken: Donald Trump has no sense of humor, isn't "funny at all"

Anyone who watches his rallies with an open mind knows that Trump has a sense of humor. It's a caustic, sarcastic New York type of humor but it's definitely there.

 

[Redwingfan9]

George W. Bush's degrees have more to do with financial contributions to those universities from his family than they do with his intellectual ability.

One book I've read commented on GWB's performance as a corporate Board member, before he was Governor or President. I believe it was the Carlyle group that put him on several Boards. They have subsidiaries. It seemed to make sense. He had an MBA, his father was President, and the Bush family owned millions of dollars in stock in the company.

George W. Bush's role was to show up at Board meetings and tell dirty jokes.

You have absolutely zero evidence that George W Bush was unqualified to attend Yale and Harvard. The fact that you don't like him is not evidence of his lack of qualifications.

Bush made millions in the west Texas oil industry. It takes skill to build a company and manage it effectively. He parlayed his oil earnings into an ownership stake in the Texas Rangers, where he helped the team increase revenue and build a new ballpark. His MBA clearly helped him with the Rangers.

I agree that Bush speaks in a folksy manner, he did not have the east coast mentality or language patterns of his father. People liked Bush because he didn't talk down to them, which is one reason why people liked Bill Clinton (and hated Hillary because she did talk down to people). Talking to people at their level isn't evidence someone is stupid.

 

[miamited]

Anyone who watches his rallies with an open mind knows that Trump has a sense of humor. It's a caustic, sarcastic New York type of humor but it's definitely there.

Hi RWF,

I agree that he does 'have', in his mind a sense of what he thinks is humorous. Problem is that his sense of what is humorous is usually some comment that is painful to someone else. He absolutely rejoices in hurting other people. I believe he finds that extremely funny.

But that's the way humor can be. I read this morning that Trump's $3M recount in Wisconsin actually netted Biden 132 more votes. I found that laugh out loud funny. However, I'm pretty sure that Trump doesn't share my 'sense of humor' about that issue.

God bless,
ted

 

[Redwingfan9]

Hi RWF,

I agree that he does 'have', in his mind a sense of what he thinks is humorous. Problem is that his sense of what is humorous is usually some comment that is painful to someone else. He absolutely rejoices in hurting other people. I believe he finds that extremely funny.

But that's the way humor can be. I read this morning that Trump's $3M recount in Wisconsin actually netted Biden 132 more votes. I found that laugh out loud funny. However, I'm pretty sure that Trump doesn't share my 'sense of humor' about that issue.

God bless,
ted

I said his humor is caustic. The great Joan Rivers made a career out of poking at celebrities and tearing them down. She spent the 80's making jokes about how fat Elizabeth Taylor was. The difference is that Joan Rivers also criticized herself, something Trump never does.

During the campaign there were several times when Trump said something funny, his audience laughed and the media then made it out like he was stating serious policy. While I would prefer the President refrain from making jokes about policy, the disingenuousness of the media was particularly outrageous. They intentionally ignored the laughing audience in order to attack Trump.

 

[miamited]

I said his humor is caustic. The great Joan Rivers made a career out of poking at celebrities and tearing them down. She spent the 80's making jokes about how fat Elizabeth Taylor was. The difference is that Joan Rivers also criticized herself, something Trump never does.

During the campaign there were several times when Trump said something funny, his audience laughed and the media then made it out like he was stating serious policy. While I would prefer the President refrain from making jokes about policy, the disingenuousness of the media was particularly outrageous. They intentionally ignored the laughing audience in order to attack Trump.

Hi RWF,

Yes, and I think my response was pretty much in agreement with your claim as to Trump's 'sense of humor'.

God bless,
ted

 

[hislegacy]

Donald Trump was impeached on December 18, 2019 and acquitted by the Senate on February 5, 2020. The Articles of Impeachment arose from evidence that Trump asked authorities in Ukraine to boost his candidacy in 2016. Trump withheld military aid to the Ukraine, and reaffirmed that decision in 2019, to punish the Ukraine for not producing damaging material on Joe and Hunter Biden.

All of which was hearsay and not substantiated by first hand witnesses. The witnesses called by the Democrats, each one, admitted under cross examination that they had no hard evidence. That is a matter of record.

Even the Ukraine said they didn't even know there was a pause in the funds release.

Everything beyond this beginning sentence is then a moot point.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

All of which was hearsay and not substantiated by first hand witnesses. The witnesses called by the Democrats, each one, admitted under cross examination that they had no hard evidence. That is a matter of record.

Even the Ukraine said they didn't even know there was a pause in the funds release.

Everything beyond this beginning sentence is then a moot point.

The other problem was that witnesses were never subpoenaed. When the House Hearing Committee called for members of the Trump administration to appear before them, they refused as they were not subpoenaed. Adam Schiff knew that if he subpoenaed them, he'd have to get the subpoena through the court and it would've taken too long. It probably would've been refused as this would've been seen by the court as an infringement of power by the Legislative Branch on the Executive Branch. It was nothing more than a political stunt by the House and cost the taxpayers over $40 million.

 

[Dale]

Literally nothing changed during the Obama administration regarding companies moving abroad. So to credit him with saving the economy based on this issue is absurd.

Biden isn't going to be able to push through a massive tax hike or a green new deal. Cocaine Mitch won't even bring those matters up for a vote and they're unlikely to pass the House in the first place. Pelosi is down to a 6 or 7 seat majority and moderates in her caucus won't vote for tax increases or anything that can remotely be called socialist.

Companies for the most part moved under Clinton and Bush. Some moved under Obama too, but most had already made that decision before he became president.

However, the economy was collapsing and Obama had to act quick to get the nation out of the death spiral it was on. GM was saved as it would've cost a lot more to have all those employees laid off, collecting unemployment and then needing welfare programs.

Same was true of other companies who planned to close or move to Mexico or China.

Even Obama had told the people that the jobs that left the US over the past ten years, were not coming back. He was right.

The pandemic showed how dangerous it was to allow our economy to rely on China as we did. I give Trump credit for fixing that.

Hopefully, Biden won't bring back the crummy trade agreements he supported in the past, which caused our decline.

Here's a fact for you.

In 1960, all the televisions sold in the US were made in the US.
In 1991, the last plant making televisions in the US moved to Mexico. It was a Zenith plant.
That happened when the first George Bush was President.

You'd think our politicians would notice things like that.

 

[Dale]

What he did was take GM from bankruptcy court where it might have reorganized and become profitable again, and turn it over to the UAW.

I have zero confidence in bankruptcy courts. Don't tell me that a bankruptcy Judge or a bankruptchy trustee could do the job.

 

[Dale]

I saw it happen as I was friends with the accountant at a company I worked for and he showed me the $2 million tax deduction the company was taking in closing down the factory and moving operations over to China.

Two years later, they started laying off engineers and support personnel, of which I was one.

I'm sorry to hear that you were laid off because of that.

 

[Redwingfan9]

Here's a fact for you.

In 1960, all the televisions sold in the US were made in the US.
In 1991, the last plant making televisions in the US moved to Mexico. It was a Zenith plant.
That happened when the first George Bush was President.

You'd think our politicians would notice things like that.

In 1960 the average cost of a television in 2020 dollars was $2,600. It was likely a standard definition black and white tube and 24 inches would have been a big screen. Today you can get a 55 inch 4k HD television for $500 and a really nice 65-75 inch 8k HD screen will cost around $2,600. Consumers notice cheaper prices and better products.

Like it or not televisions produced in Asia are better than American products and they have been for decades. Consumers notice and it doesn't matter whether government notices. All government will do is prop up bad companies which make more expensive and inferior products.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Here's a fact for you.

In 1960, all the televisions sold in the US were made in the US.
In 1991, the last plant making televisions in the US moved to Mexico. It was a Zenith plant.
That happened when the first George Bush was President.

You'd think our politicians would notice things like that.

H. W. Bush supported NAFTA, but it was signed by President Bill Clinton and the largest portion moved in the 90's and early 2000's.

I was working in Hi-Tech in the nineties and saw tech jobs moving to Asia, especially Singapore. We had a plant in Mexico and the managers and engineers who went down their, got robbed on their way from the airport to the hotel. The plant never made a dime, so the company closed it and moved to Singapore.

Ross Perot had warned that if NAFTA were approved, you'll hear a loud sucking sound as US jobs move to Mexico.

 

[Dale]

All of which was hearsay and not substantiated by first hand witnesses. The witnesses called by the Democrats, each one, admitted under cross examination that they had no hard evidence. That is a matter of record.

Even the Ukraine said they didn't even know there was a pause in the funds release.

Everything beyond this beginning sentence is then a moot point.

HisLegacy: "All of which was hearsay and not substantiated by first hand witnesses."

Why is it hearsay?

HisLegacy: "The witnesses called by the Democrats, each one, admitted under cross examination that they had no hard evidence."

What do you call hard evidence? Was there hard evidence before tape recorders were invented?

HisLegacy: "Even the Ukraine said they didn't even know there was a pause in the funds release."

This isn't true.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

In 1960 the average cost of a television in 2020 dollars was $2,600. It was likely a standard definition black and white tube and 24 inches would have been a big screen. Today you can get a 55 inch 4k HD television for $500 and a really nice 65-75 inch 8k HD screen will cost around $2,600. Consumers notice cheaper prices and better products.

Like it or not televisions produced in Asia are better than American products and they have been for decades. Consumers notice and it doesn't matter whether government notices. All government will do is prop up bad companies which make more expensive and inferior products.

Well a big part of that was Japan had dumped chips they made on the US market, especially memory chips, which closed many US memory engineering and manufacturing cites. Texas Instruments got out of the memory chip business as a result

 

[hislegacy]

HisLegacy: "All of which was hearsay and not substantiated by first hand witnesses."

Why is it hearsay?

Definition of hearsay | Dictionary.com

That is why.

HisLegacy: "The witnesses called by the Democrats, each one, admitted under cross examination that they had no hard evidence."

What do you call hard evidence? Was there hard evidence before tape recorders were invented?

Hard evidence definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary

That is what I call hard evidence.

HisLegacy: "Even the Ukraine said they didn't even know there was a pause in the funds release."

This isn't true.

President Trump Impeachment -- Ukraine Didn't Realize U.S. Withheld Aid Until One Month After Call: Report | National Review

It is true.

Add that to:

Ukrainian President Denies President Trump Pressured Him

 

[Dale]

H. W. Bush supported NAFTA, but it was signed by President Bill Clinton and the largest portion moved in the 90's and early 2000's.

I was working in Hi-Tech in the nineties and saw tech jobs moving to Asia, especially Singapore. We had a plant in Mexico and the managers and engineers who went down their, got robbed on their way from the airport to the hotel. The plant never made a dime, so the company closed it and moved to Singapore.

Ross Perot had warned that if NAFTA were approved, you'll hear a loud sucking sound as US jobs move to Mexico.

Here is what I am talking about.

Bush signs North American trade pact Clinton says he won't renegotiate
Gilbert A. LewthwaiteTHE BALTIMORE SUN

<< WASHINGTON -- President Bush signed the North American Free Trade Agreement yesterday, and his successor-in-waiting Bill Clinton immediately announced that he would not seek the treaty's renegotiation. >>

and

<< Environmentalists also fear that U.S. companies will be lured to Mexico by its lower air, water and land pollution safeguards, and this would worsen cross-border pollution. >>

Bush signs North American trade pact Clinton says he won't renegotiate

Another source:

"Transcript for 12/17/1992: Pres. Bush Signs NAFTA

President Bush picked an appropriately symbolic setting today the -- the North American Free Trade Agreement. Between the US Mexico and Canada. He was at the headquarters of the Organization of American States in Washington the agreement will create a free trade zone throughout North America. The agreement was also signed in Mexico City by president Salinas and an -- -- by the Canadian prime minister Brian -- Rooney. Governor Clinton has endorsed the free trade agreement that says he would like better protection for American workers."

Video: Dec. 17, 1992: Pres. Bush Signs NAFTA

 

[Redwingfan9]

Well a big part of that was Japan had dumped chips they made on the US market, especially memory chips, which closed many US memory engineering and manufacturing cites. Texas Instruments got out of the memory chip business as a result

Better products, better prices.