IF THE LAW OF MOSES WAS SET ASIDE , WHY ROM 13:9?

[expos4ever]

Sure I can. Lawlessness means without law. You teach and believe Gods' 10 commandments have been abolished therefore the new covenant is without the law of God's 10 commandments, therefore lawlessness. Call it whatever you want your teaching is one of lawlessness.

Your logic is obviously incorrect, as any neutral reader with their wits about them will see.

Here is the error:

"therefore the new covenant is without the law of God's 10 commandments, therefore lawlessness"

How can you not possibly understand that to be without one particular law (in this case the 10) does not imply that no law of any kind applies?

A Martian who disobeys Martian law is, yes, practicing lawlessness.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Your logic is obviously incorrect, as any neutral reader with their wits about them will see.

Here is the error:

"therefore the new covenant is without the law of God's 10 commandments, therefore lawlessness"

How can you not possibly understand that to be without one particular law (in this case the 10) does not imply that no law of any kind applies?

A Martian who disobeys Martian law is, yes, practicing lawlessness.

No my logic is Gods Word and only Gods' Word is true and we should believe and follow them according to the scriptures *Romans 3:5; Acts of the Apostles 5:29. Your teachings of lawlessness that Gods 10 commandments have been abolished in the new covenant are not biblical as shown through the scripture contexts shared with you that you are unwilling to discuss with me. We are not talking about dietary law, or laws of animal sacrifices and sin offerings. We are talking about your teachings and claims in regards to Gods' 10 commandments and now you want to make it all about something else now?

 

[expos4ever]

No you haven't and sorry I do not believe you. Anyone following my discussions can see very clearly what law I am talking about.

The problem is that this discussion is not about you believe words mean, but rather what words actually mean.

You can wish all you want that the definition of lawlessness will magically morph into what you want it to be.

But it ain't gonna happen.

 

[Leaf473]

No you haven't and sorry I do not believe you. Anyone following my discussions can see very clearly what law I am talking about. I have been very specific about it stating that I am talking about God's eternal laws of His 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken. Those who believe and teach that Gods 10 commandments have been abolished in the new covenant believe and teach in a false teaching of lawlessness (without law) in the new covenant which is not biblical and is a teaching against all the old and new testament scriptures.

Are you saying that "lawless" refers to the condition of being without the ten commandments?

If so, then:

What word do you use to describe the condition of being without any law of any kind, laws from the scriptures or laws enacted by civil authorities?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Are you saying that "lawless" refers to the condition of being without the ten commandments?

If so, then:

Follow the discussion. Anyone following my discussions can see very clearly what the context of my discussions here are in regards to the claims that God's 10 commandments have been abolished so what law we are talking about in context to our discussion is very clear and there is no need to guess what law we are talking about. I have been very specific about it stating that I am talking about God's eternal laws of His 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken. Those who believe and teach that Gods 10 commandments have been abolished in the new covenant believe and teach in a false teaching of lawlessness (without law) in the new covenant which is not biblical and is a teaching against all the old and new testament scriptures.

 

[expos4ever]

Not really it is literal truth. You believe and teach that God's 10 commandments have been abolished in the new covenant right?

Right

Therefore you believe and teach in a teaching of lawlessness meaning without law of God's 10 commandments in the new covenant.

Incorrect - show me a dictionary that says lawlessness can only exist where the 10 commandments have been violated.

And now the dancing begins.......

 

[Leaf473]

Follow the discussion. Anyone following my discussions can see very clearly what the context of my discussions here are in regards to the claims that God's 10 commandments have been abolished so what law we are talking about in context to our discussion is very clear and there is no need to guess what law we are talking about. I have been very specific about it stating that I am talking about God's eternal laws of His 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken. Those who believe and teach that Gods 10 commandments have been abolished in the new covenant believe and teach in a false teaching of lawlessness (without law) in the new covenant which is not biblical and is a teaching against all the old and new testament scriptures.

I am following the discussion, but I am unable to see what word you use to describe the condition of having zero laws.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Incorrect - show me a dictionary that says lawlessness can only exist where the 10 commandments have been violated.

Strawman where have I ever said to you that lawlessness only exists where the 10 commandments have been violated. If I have never said these things why pretend that is what I am talking about? We are talking about your claims, beliefs and teachings that God's 10 commandment have been abolished in the new covenant which is a teaching of lawlessness (without law) which is not biblical.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I am following the discussion, but I am unable to see what word you use to describe the condition of having zero laws.

No your not following the discussion. I am sorry I cannot help you. Perhaps you can pray about it. Once again context and application to my discussions is in response to the claims being made here by those who believe and teach that Gods' 10 commandments being abolished in the new covenant which is a teaching of lawlessness meaning without the law of God's 10 commandments. This is not very hard.

 

[Leaf473]

No your not following the discussion. I am sorry I cannot help you. Perhaps you can pray about it. Once again context and application to my discussions is in response to the claims being made here by those who believe and teach that Gods' 10 commandments being abolished in the new covenant which is a teaching of lawlessness meaning without the law of God's 10 commandments. This is not very hard.

If you cannot tell me what word you use to describe the condition of having zero laws, then I agree that you cannot help me.

Peace be with you, my friend!

 

[LoveGodsWord]

If you cannot tell me what word you use to describe the condition of having zero laws, then I agree that you cannot help me. Peace be with you, my friend!

You were already told. I will leave it between you and God. Lawlessness meaning without law was in context to my discussions here with those who claim and believe and teach that God's 10 commandments have been abolished. Which is what you believe as well is it not? So I think you know exactly what I am talking about.

Take Care.

 

[Leaf473]

At the risk of muddying the waters, there is both the English word "lawlessness" and the Greek word "anomía", which is what is used in 1 John 3.

Bible hub provides some dictionary definitions, I think this part especially nails it as far as the context of 1 John 3 goes:

458 /anomía ("lawlessness") includes the end-impact of law breaking – i.e. its negative influence on a person's soul (status before God).
Strong's Greek: 458. ἀνομία (anomia) -- lawlessness

 

[LoveGodsWord]

At the risk of muddying the waters, there is both the English word "lawlessness" and the Greek word "anomía", which is what is used in 1 John 3.

Bible hub provides some dictionary definitions, I think this part especially nails it as far as the context of 1 John 3 goes:

458 /anomía ("lawlessness") includes the end-impact of law breaking – i.e. its negative influence on a person's soul (status before God).
Strong's Greek: 458. ἀνομία (anomia) -- lawlessness

Strawman. I already told you my application to "lawlessness" without law was in context to my discussions here with those who claim and believe and teach that God's 10 commandments have been abolished. Which is what you believe as well is it not? So I think you know exactly what I am talking about. Why are you trying to make it about something no one is talking about?

lawlessness
/ˈlɔːləsnəs/
noun

1. a state of disorder due to a disregard of the law.
   "the country's descent into lawlessness"

LAW'LESSNESS, noun The quality or state of being unrestrained by law; disorder.

1: not regulated by or based on law​

being without law; uncontrolled by a law; unbridled; unruly; unrestrained​

the fact that laws do not exist, or are not obeyed or respected

Lawlessness is a lack of law, in any of the various senses of that word.​

No Law.

Take Care

 

[Leaf473]

You were already told. I will leave it between you and God. Lawlessness meaning without law was in context to my discussions here with those who claim and believe and teach that God's 10 commandments have been abolished. Which is what you believe as well is it not? So I think you know exactly what I am talking about.

Take Care.

As I asked before,

What word do you use to describe the condition of being without any law of any kind, laws from the scriptures or laws enacted by civil authorities?

I think if you would say what words or even phrases you use to differentiate between not having the ten commandments and not having any laws of any kind that would be really helpful as far as helping the rest of us understand what you are saying.

 

[Leaf473]

Strawman. I already told you my application to "lawlessness" without law was in context to my discussions here with those who claim and believe and teach that God's 10 commandments have been abolished. Which is what you believe as well is it not? So I think you know exactly what I am talking about. Why are you trying to make it about something no one is talking about?

lawlessness
/ˈlɔːləsnəs/
noun

1. a state of disorder due to a disregard of the law.
   "the country's descent into lawlessness"

LAW'LESSNESS, noun The quality or state of being unrestrained by law; disorder.

Take Care

It's not a strawman, post 232 is not addressed specifically to you. It is addressed to everyone here, and not everyone here is using the same definition of "lawlessness".

 

[LoveGodsWord]

As I asked before,

What word do you use to describe the condition of being without any law of any kind, laws from the scriptures or laws enacted by civil authorities?

I think if you would say what words or even phrases you use to differentiate between not having the ten commandments and not having any laws of any kind that would be really helpful as far as helping the rest of us understand what you are saying.

This has nothing to do with what has been posted to you. Tell me what does your post here have anything to do with me telling you my application to lawlessness (without law) was in reference to my discussions here with those who teach that Gods' 10 commandments in the new covenant have been abolished and that this teaching is a teaching of lawlessness (without law)? - Absolutely, nothing.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It's not a strawman, post 232 is not addressed specifically to you. It is addressed to everyone here, and not everyone here is using the same definition of "lawlessness".

You were indeed making a strawman argument no one was arguing about. The discussion we were having was specifically about how I was using and applying the word "lawlessness" in my application to my posts with all those who hold a teaching of God's 10 commandments are now abolished in the new covenant and saying that this is a teaching that of lawlessness which is in context to Gods' 10 commandments being abolished. You want to make the discussion about something I was never talking about. If anyone is teaching that Gods' 10 commandments have been abolished then it is a teaching of lawlessness (without law) with the context here being to God's 10 commandments.

 

[Leaf473]

This has nothing to do with what has been posted to you. Tell me what does your post here have anything to do with me telling you my application to lawlessness (without law) was in reference to my discussions here with those who teach that Gods' 10 commandments in the new covenant have been abolished and that this teaching is a teaching of lawlessness (without law)? - Absolutely, nothing.

Here's how it relates:

The train of thought I'm following is that there were two different definitions of "law" going on in this thread. This resulted in two different definitions of "lawlessness".

This resulted in people saying that what others said was false. And it was, according to the definitions that each was using.

(I will reiterate that it words do have common meanings and it's best to stick with those meanings when possible.)

In an attempt to move the discussion forward in an edifying way, I thought it would be good to resolve the definitions.

I understand now
(but I didn't up until about an hour ago)
that when you say "law" and "lawlessness" you are referring specifically to the ten commandments.

Would you agree that other people have at times been using those words differently in this thread?

 

[Leaf473]

You were indeed making a strawman argument no one was arguing about. The discussion we were having was specifically about how I was using and applying the word "lawlessness" in my application to my posts with all those who hold a teaching of God's 10 commandments are now abolished in the new covenant and saying that this is a teaching that of lawlessness which is in context to Gods' 10 commandments being abolished. You want to make the discussion about something I was never talking about. If anyone is teaching that Gods' 10 commandments have been abolished then it is a teaching of lawlessness (without law) with the context here being to God's 10 commandments.

The particular topic I was talking about recently was two different definitions of "lawlessness".

Posting reference materials that give the definition for how 1 John uses the related Greek word very much relates imo.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Here's how it relates:

The train of thought I'm following is that there were two different definitions of "law" going on in this thread. This resulted in two different definitions of "lawlessness".

This resulted in people saying that what others said was false. And it was, according to the definitions that each was using.

(I will reiterate that it words do have common meanings and it's best to stick with those meanings when possible.)

In an attempt to move the discussion forward in an edifying way, I thought it would be good to resolve the definitions.

I understand now
(but I didn't up until about an hour ago)
that when you say "law" and "lawlessness" you are referring specifically to the ten commandments.

Would you agree that other people have at times been using those words differently in this thread?

Your not following the discussion.