If the beginnings of Genesis aren't literally true, then what way are they true?

[joshua 1 9]

I accept your evidence, but I reject your explanation.

We all have the same evidence to examine.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Christianity, to his extreme, requires you to turn off your brain. He says as much when telling us to ignore the collective learning of a 1,000 years. Christians used to burn people for learning too much.

It can take some effort to turn stumbling blocks into stepping stones.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What if the evidence could be interpreted to fit a literal Genesis 1, would you accept it as literal?

If you have to "fit the evidence" then you have already admitted a problem.

What if some of us can interpret the evidence to fit a literal Genesis 1, would it be okay with you if we accept it as literal?

You can believe whatever you want. But one should not be able to inflict those beliefs upon others, especially those too young to know better. In schools unless one can support ones views they should not be taught.

Truth is often held by the minority.

So what? Religious beliefs have been shown to be wrong time after time.

A good understand of Harry Potter is a good understanding of Harry Potter, but who cares?.
That's one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever heard.

Why? I could say the same about the first two books of the Bible.

I hope you are not speaking on the behalf of that 99%

Again why? I am not speaking on their behalf, but it is clear that they are correct and your beliefs are not. That is why no creationist can successfully defend their beliefs here.

 

[HitchSlap]

There are no contradictions in the Bible and nothing has ever been proven to be wrong. There are people who devote their whole life to study the Bible and they still can only begin to understand what a vast source of wisdom, understanding and knowledge there is to be found in the written word of God.

Here's an assignment for you. Line the four gospels up and do a simple timeline of events. You may be surprised how many discrepancies there really are.

 

[SkyWriting]

Christians used to burn people for learning too much.

And wearing too much perfumed hair gell.

"And there came out a fire from the LORD, and consumed
the two hundred and fifty men that offered incense." -- Numbers 16:35

 

[SkyWriting]

*Revelation

Wow, the most knowledgeable god of the universe and everything in it, mentioned "an increase in communications and travel." I'm so underwhelmed.

The Lord doesn't wish for you to worry and throw-up, yet.

 

[paulm50]

You are not showing any real receptivity. I completely understand that we don't deserve anything more than your remarks as they are. But I am just not sure you are up for lowering your guard enough to have me tell you the truth and not just get the same response. But I will try, or at least get started, and see if you are willing:

Can you agree with me that it is at least conceivable that there is a finite reality and a completely separate infinite reality?

Yes the finite reality is what we know, the infinite is what we are to learn.

Assuming that you can, let me just throw in a little humor and say, "Congratulations, you shall now inherit the earth!"

What does that mean, my Father only owned the clothes he died in.

Hypothetically speaking, if we can agree that there is both a finite and an infinite reality, can we further agree that it then stands to reason, that the infinite reality would be the greater, while the finite would be the lesser?

Let's start there.

Yes.

Now here's the problem. You want us to think by shrinking our knowledge, we grow it. Finite knowledge is what we know, I know the existence of rocks that prove the Earth wasn't made as the bible says. You deny this, therefore your finite knowledge is smaller.

I believe infinite knowledge exists, we just have to keep learning. You believe infinite means we stop learning. Let's start by you showing how your knowledge is growing like the majority of us.

 

[paulm50]

There are no contradictions in the Bible and nothing has ever been proven to be wrong.

Bible contradictions.

There are people who devote their whole life to study the Bible and they still can only begin to understand what a vast source of wisdom, understanding and knowledge there is to be found in the written word of God.

Why does it take so long to understand it, is it long? No. Is it written in a language we understand? No.

Is it people trying to bend it to fit the ethics, morals, knowledge and world of the day of the scholar? Absolutely. Now the question should be why should they, the book says what it says, does it say we should amend it, well yes and no. Contradicting itself.

 

[paulm50]

And wearing too much perfumed hair gell.

"And there came out a fire from the LORD, and consumed
the two hundred and fifty men that offered incense." -- Numbers 16:35

So much for this loving god.

The Lord doesn't wish for you to worry and throw-up, yet.

A lot of believers must spend their life worrying they will make the grade, was their version of the bible the right one.

Especially considering what Joshua mow says, about it being so hard to understand and not contradicting itself. Did Jesus really mean we keep the old laws, if so which ones and what ones were thrown out? If I believed in Heaven and Hell that would scare me.

 

[paulm50]

Humor? ...No, you're being scanned as we speak.

The ultimate threat from the rulers. 1984 all over again. someone is always watching you.

Forget about the NSA, god is far better at snooping.

 

[paulm50]

If the beginnings of Genesis aren't literally true, then what way are they true?

God Bless!

Back to the beginning. There's no supporting evidence Genesis is literally true, there's a mountain of evidence it's not.

We can go further than the 7 days of creation. Cain, Abel, Noah, Moses, Sodom and Gomorrah, etc. Either perfectly fitting natural explanations or no evidence, no knowledge and some clear lies.

Claiming you have to stop thinking, or learning to believe Genesis as it's written, isn't a reasonable answer. And shows the weakness of that sides debate. Their lack of real evidence, answers to the evidence also reveals their weak case.

We must look to why Genesis and the OT were written for answers. After a king who kept the country together, Israel split with two greedy factions vying tor power. This led to defeats and exile and risked the future of the tribe of Israel and their religion. So scribes and priests got together to write down the fables of the time. They embellished their recent History, and made a lot up, to show that if only the Jews stuck together they would win in the end. They didn't and without the backing of America, it wouldn't survive. Or we would have a nuclear war.

What predictions were accurate and unique enough to have come true?

 

[SkyWriting]

So much for this loving god.

You may think that life on this earth is heaven or something close to it and
the greatest blessing is for you to live to be 100. There are many secular
indicators that both those assumptions are not valid.

 

[SkyWriting]

A lot of believers must spend their life worrying they will make the grade, was their version of the bible the right one.

If that worries you, you can work on fixing that.

 

[SkyWriting]

If I believed in Heaven and Hell that would scare me.

I believe in both and neither is scary. So evidently you are already scared.

 

[paulm50]

You may think that life on this earth is heaven or something close to it and
the greatest blessing is for you to live to be 100. There are many secular
indicators that both those assumptions are not valid.

Where in my saying the world is designed to kill us, did you get the impression I think this is heaven?

If that worries you, you can work on fixing that.

No, it worries me as much as my telling my 13 year old, Father Xmas won't bring her presents.

I believe in both and neither is scary. So evidently you are already scared.

So hell isn't scary to you and you're so sure you personally have ticked all the boxes to get you into a place that doesn't exist.
I'm as scared as my daughter telling me Father Xmas has no presents for me.

I have faced death, looked him in the eye and told him to F OFF. Should the cancer treatment have failed or I was facing a life without a tongue, I had throat cancer. I would of committed suicide, instead of suffered the pain or anguish.

Then the lights go out and nothing happens, absolute zero, nada, not a flicker. And some throw a party.

 

[SkyWriting]

I have faced death, looked him in the eye and told him to F OFF. Should the cancer treatment have failed or I was facing a life without a tongue, I had throat cancer. I would of committed suicide, instead of suffered the pain or anguish.

Dying is easy. It's for the wimpy people who are scared of pain.
But we all get what we deserve anyway.

 

[Mr Strawberry]

Dying is easy.

Your god certainly makes it seems so in your favourite bedside book of genocide and murder.

It's for the wimpy people who are scared of pain.

You never know what's lying ahead of you in this life, so it's generally best not to say things like that too hastily. You may find yourself rueing that sentiment one day.

But we all get what we deserve anyway.

Step 1 in growing up: realising that nothing is fair and bad things happen to good people for no reason and good things happen to bad people for no reason.

 

[paulm50]

Dying is easy. It's for the wimpy people who are scared of pain.
But we all get what we deserve anyway.

So those dying because of a natural event, got what they deserve. Even these victims.

 

[Doveaman]

If you have to "fit the evidence" then you have already admitted a problem.

Scientists fit evidence to ideas all the time.

Hypothesis --> Evidence fitted --> Theory.

Bible --> Evidence fitted --> Truth.

 

[Doveaman]

You can believe whatever you want. But one should not be able to inflict those beliefs upon others, especially those too young to know better. In schools unless one can support ones views they should not be taught.

I agree religion shouldn't be taught in schools. I also agree evolution theory shouldn't be taught in schools.

So what? Religious beliefs have been shown to be wrong time after time.

That explains why religious truth is held by the minority.

Why? I could say the same about the first two books of the Bible.

I understand your statement, but you don't understand those two books.

Again why? I am not speaking on their behalf, but it is clear that they are correct and your beliefs are not. That is why no creationist can successfully defend their beliefs here.

Creationists have been successfully defending their beliefs for over 2000 years. That's why they are still here.