If someone rejects joseph smith as a prophet of God??

[Theway]

Which is contrary to what Jesus actually taught...

No, but if you think it is contrary to what Christ taught, than by all means please show us...

 

[4x4toy]

No, but if you think it is contrary to what Christ taught, than by all means please show us...

When Joseph saw God and Jesus in the grove should he have checked it out in the Word .. If a Prophet makes a prophecy that is not true , what is to be done with him according to the Word .. Do you believe any Mormon prophecy is false ..

 

[drstevej]

Why do Mormons reject Warren Jeffs?

 

[SeekerOfChrist94]

What if someone rejects Moses as a prophet of God? Abraham? Isaiah? Please, do tell.

 

[bbbbbbb]

What if someone rejects Moses as a prophet of God? Abraham? Isaiah? Please, do tell.

Their eternal destiny is hardly at stake. BTW, Abraham has never been considered to be a prophet. He is the patriarch of Israel.

 

[Theway]

Because we are told to test all things. Simple enough. JS, BY = Fail.

Since it was the one you KNEW to be God which gave you the answer, then you must mean you want to test God.
Pardon the ignorance, but what would the test for God look like... And what on earth makes you think you are qualified to grade God's answer to see whether He was right or wrong?

Why do you believe I have been deceived?

I believe you are deceived because you answered "no" to my question. This means that everything spiritual or related to God, you judged it's truthfulness on your fallible opinion instead of Gods's sure witness. That makes everything you say suspect and open to error.

On what basis do you make this attempt to judge?

LOL... You've just got to love the hypocrisy here. The funny thing is that you don't even realize you are doing it.
First you tell me to test all things... Then you tell me I'm not allowed to judge???
What is the point of testing something if I am not allowed to judge whether the answers to the test were correct or not???
What you are really saying is that you are the only one who gets to test and judge all things based on your opinion, and I just have to accept YOUR answers as correct.

Again, when you add in the additional variable of false prophets, it makes it a false scenario. Did you not say to insert any name there, like Hitler for example? Could you seriously insert Hitler and say that God sent him as a prophet to do his will and order the extermination of over 6 million Jews and still have your "Biblical scenario" be valid?

you are proving my point for me again... Look at your comment... You want me to judge whether God is a lier or not, based on MY OPINION of Hitler.
God does not need YOUR opinion or MY opinion... Whoever God chooses would override my beliefs in the matter... This is what you fail to realize... YOU DO NOT GET TO VOTE ON WHO GOD WOULD CHOOSE AS A PROPHET. You either have Faith in your God, or you do not.

Critics like you are always asking me what it would take for me to realize that Joseph Smith was a Con Man and the Church was not true... And my answer is always simply... If God told me so! Even if it went against everything I currently believe or was told.

 

[Theway]

".........."

 

[Theway]

When Joseph saw God and Jesus in the grove should he have checked it out in the Word .. If a Prophet makes a prophecy that is not true , what is to be done with him according to the Word .. Do you believe any Mormon prophecy is false ..

You tell me what is to be done with him, and then I would ask you why you have not obeyed God and done it?

 

[Theway]

Their eternal destiny is hardly at stake.

John 13:20" Truly, truly, I say to you, he who receives whomever I send receives Me; and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me"

Luke 10:16"The one who listens to you listens to Me, and the one who rejects you rejects Me; and he who rejects Me rejects the One who sent Me."

BTW, Abraham has never been considered to be a prophet. He is the patriarch of Israel.

Gen 20:7
Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine.

 

[4x4toy]

You tell me what is to be done with him, and then I would ask you why you have not obeyed God and done it?

I never claimed or believed they were prophets ..

 

[Theway]

I never claimed or believed they were prophets ..

You are not making any sense now...

First you said "If a PROPHET makes a prophecy which is not true..." And then you say the test doesn't apply to JS or BY because YOU didn't consider them Prophets anyway???

Why then did you even bring the comparison up? You don't even have a horse in this race...

You are correct though, the only ones who would be able to apply such a test are the people who view the Prophet as a true Prophet of God...
As I am the only one I see qualified to administer the test... I say he passes it.

Instead of just spouting off talking points, maybe next time you should think about them first.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Since it was the one you KNOW to be God that gave you the answer, then you must mean you want to test God.
Pardon the ignorance, but what would the test for God look like... And what on earth makes you think you are qualified to grade God's answer if He was right or wrong?

Still not going to crawl into your false box. What God would actually say to me MUST be consistant with what has been written in His Word in the Bible. The God I KNOW would not claim JS is his prophet, because that would not be consistant with His Scripture. YOUR god could say that, but if I believed it then we both would be wrong.

I am qualified through the written Word of God and by the power of God's Holy Spirit. MY God doesn't lie and is not inconsistant. Yours appears to be.

I believe you are deceived because you answered "no" to my question. This means that everything spiritual or related to God you judged it's truthfulness on your fallible opinion instead of Gods's sure witness.that makes everything you say suspect.

You are entitled to your opinion based on your faulty logic and scenario. I mean, if you're gonna be wrong, why not just be completely wrong? Fortunately, I am judged by the TRUE judge.

LOL... You've just got to love the hypocrisy here. The funny thing is that you don't even realize you are doing it.
First you tell me to test all things... Then you tell me I'm not allowed to judge???
What is the point of testing something if I am not allowed to judge whether the answers to the test were correct or not???
What you are really saying is that you are the only one who gets to test and judge all things based on your opinion, and I just have to accept YOUR answers as correct.

You may judge however you want. I just wanted to know by what means you are authorized to judge that I am deceived?

you are proving my point for me again... Look at your comment... You want me to judge whether God is a lier or not, based on MY OPINION of Hitler.
God does not need YOUR opinion or MY opinion... Whoever God chooses would override my beliefs in the matter... This is what you fail to realize... YOU DO NOT GET TO VOTE ON WHO GOD WOULD CHOOSE AS A PROPHET. You either have Faith in your God, or you do not.

Wow. Are you ever misguided. It is not based on opinion, it is based on fact. The fact is Hitler persecuted and killed millions of Jews and tried his hand at ethnic cleansing. Jesus had something to say about that when Paul was doing that. If an entity you KNEW was God told you Hilter was his Prophet, you would actually believe him? Wow...

But it might not surprise me since your church esteems the racist known as BY, who, in his own special way, tried his hand at justifying spiritual ethnic cleansing with his comments on blacks.

Critics like you are always asking me what it would take for me to realize that Joseph Smith was a Con Man and the Church was not true... And my answer is always simply... If God told me so! Even if it went against everything I currently believe or was told.

I never asked you that so I don't know why you are lumping me in with your other so-called critics.

God has told you so, through His Word. You just won't believe him.

 

[SeekerOfChrist94]

Still not going to crawl into your false box. What God would actually say to me MUST be consistant with what has been written in His Word in the Bible. The God I KNOW would not claim JS is his prophet, because that would not be consistant with His Scripture. YOUR god could say that, but if I believed it then we both would be wrong.

I am qualified through the written Word of God and by the power of God's Holy Spirit. MY God doesn't lie and is not inconsistant. Yours appears to be.




You are entitled to your opinion based on your faulty logic and scenario. I mean, if you're gonna be wrong, why not just be completely wrong? Fortunately, I am judged by the TRUE judge.



You may judge however you want. I just wanted to know by what means you are authorized to judge that I am deceived?




Wow. Are you ever misguided. It is not based on opinion, it is based on fact. The fact is Hitler persecuted and killed millions of Jews and tried his hand at ethnic cleansing. Jesus had something to say about that when Paul was doing that. If an entity you KNEW was God told you Hilter was his Prophet, you would actually believe him? Wow...

But it might not surprise me since your church esteems the racist known as BY, who, in his own special way, tried his hand at justifying spiritual ethnic cleansing with his comments on blacks.



I never asked you that so I don't know why you are lumping me in with your other so-called critics.

God has told you so, through His Word. You just won't believe him.

I see many double standards in your post. You say you are judged by the true judge yet you judge us. And then at the end go on as if you speak for God.

 

[4x4toy]

You are not making any sense now...

First you said "If a PROPHET makes a prophecy which is not true..." And then you say the test doesn't apply to JS or BY because YOU didn't consider them Prophets anyway???

Why then did you even bring the comparison up? You don't even have a horse in this race...

You are correct though, the only ones who would be able to apply such a test are the people who view the Prophet as a true Prophet of God...
As I am the only one I see qualified to administer the test... I say he passes it.

Instead of just spouting off talking points, maybe next time you should think about them first.

They are your prophets not mine , your church not mine .. If you don't think I've confronted a few of my preachers you're wrong .. They need checking at times just like we do

 

[bbbbbbb]

John 13:20" Truly, truly, I say to you, he who receives whomever I send receives Me; and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me"

Luke 10:16"The one who listens to you listens to Me, and the one who rejects you rejects Me; and he who rejects Me rejects the One who sent Me."

Gen 20:7
Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine.

I stand by my statement that Abraham has not been considered to be a prophet either by Judaism or Christianity, but is the first of the three Patriarchs of Judaism. Abraham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Islam, by contrast, does not hold to the patriarchial position of Abraham, but considers him to have been a prophet in a line of prophets beginning with Adam and ending with Mohammed.

Luke 10:1 Now after this the Lord appointed seventy others, and sent them in pairs ahead of Him to every city and place where He Himself was going to come. 2 And He was saying to them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few; therefore beseech the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest. 3 Go; behold, I send you out as lambs in the midst of wolves. 4 Carry no money belt, no bag, no shoes; and greet no one on the way. 5 Whatever house you enter, first say, ‘Peace be to this house.’ 6 If a man of peace is there, your peace will rest on him; but if not, it will return to you. 7 Stay in that house, eating and drinking what they give you; for the laborer is worthy of his wages. Do not keep moving from house to house. 8 Whatever city you enter and they receive you, eat what is set before you; 9 and heal those in it who are sick, and say to them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you.’ 10 But whatever city you enter and they do not receive you, go out into its streets and say, 11 ‘Even the dust of your city which clings to our feet we wipe off in protest against you; yet be sure of this, that the kingdom of God has come near.’ 12 I say to you, it will be more tolerable in that day for Sodom than for that city.
13 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles had been performed in Tyre and Sidon which occurred in you, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. 14 But it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the judgment than for you. 15 And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will be brought down to Hades!
16 “The one who listens to you listens to Me, and the one who rejects you rejects Me; and he who rejects Me rejects the One who sent Me.”

In Luke 10 Jesus sent seventy of His disciples. His statement in verse 16 is made to them and concerns them and not anyone else.

 

[Theway]

I stand by my statement that Abraham has not been considered to be a prophet either by Judaism or Christianity, but is the first of the three Patriarchs of Judaism. Abraham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have no idea where you got idea that Abraham is not considered a Prophet in Judaism or Christianity, nor do I get where you got the idea that just because he is called a Patriarch in Israel, that he is not also called a Prophet. In fact, all three Patriarchs are known as Prophets in Judaism.

The hypocrisy and contradictions are astounding here. In fact, you don't mean to, but you constantly prove me right by trying to argue that I am wrong.
In Mormonism, authority and real truth comes from God Himself, and we believe Abraham is consider a Prophet because in modern revelation, God has told us he is.
However, you guys just spent this whole thread telling us that it is the authority and the truth of the Bible that trumps a revelation from God Himself. Yet when I show you that your God and authority "The Bible" specifically calls Abraham a Prophet, you then appeal to the authority and truth of Wikipedia as now trumping the Bible.
LOL... you've got to love it.
However, had you of actually read your own new authority and scripture of Wikipedia, and scrolled to the bottom, you would of found the link; "Table of prophets of Abrahamic religions" from it it will see that Abraham is considered a Prophet in: Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and the Baha'i Faith.

I suppose you are now going to tell me that "your opinion" trumps the God of Wikipedia, or that only you can rightly divide the Word if Wiki.
....LOL.... just as I already stated you guys would, and do.

16 “The one who listens to you listens to Me, and the one who rejects you rejects Me; and he who rejects Me rejects the One who sent Me."

In Luke 10 Jesus sent seventy of His disciples. His statement in verse 16 is made to them and concerns them and not anyone else.

Oh I couldn't disagree more, and so do the commentaries, and your own fellow Christians.
But hey, your God of "My Opinion" trumps the authority of all if them and me... Right?

I also see that you ignored the other verse... And if those two verses were not enough, I have many others that all say the same thing.

Like I told the other Poster here, I would have more respect for "your opinion" had you just admitted you were wrong. But your dogma will not allow you to admit you were wrong to a Mormon no matter how silly it makes you look, will it!

 

[drstevej]

we believe Abraham is consider a Prophet because in modern revelation, God has told us he is.

 

[Theway]

I'm sorry... Please explain the connection between my statement and your picture???
Or is this just an attempt by you to draw attention away from a failed argument of one of your own.. To your own failed argument?

 

[drstevej]

Sure. Your leaders were hoodwinked by Mark Hoffmann AND they bought into Joseph Smith's Book of Abraham forgery.

Addendum: Eight Scholars on Joseph Smith's Book of Abraham Translation

In his 1912 publication of "Joseph Smith, Jr., As a Translator," J.S. Spaulding solicited the views of eight scholars regarding Joseph Smith's Book of Abraham translation. Below are excerpts from their comments:

"It is difficult to deal seriously with Joseph Smith's impudent fraud."
Dr. A.H. Sayce, Oxford, England

"I have examined the illustrations given in the 'Pearl of Great Price.' In the first place, they are copies (very badly done) of well known Egyptian subjects of which I have dozens of examples. Secondly, they are all many centuries later than Abraham."
Dr. W.M. Flinders Petrie, London University

"Joseph Smith's interpretation of them as part of a unique revelation through Abraham, therefore, very clearly demonstrates that he was totally unacquainted with the significance of these documents and absolutely ignorant of the simplest facts of Egyptian writing and civilization."
James, H. Breasted, Ph.D., Haskell Oriental Museum, University of Chicago

"The 'Book of Abraham,' it is hardly necessary to say, is a pure fabrication."
Dr. Arthur C. Mace, Assist. Curator, Metropolitan Museum of Art, NY, Dept. of Egyptian Art

"The plates contained in the 'Pearl of Great Price' are rather comical and a very poor imitation of Egyptian originals."
Dr. John Peters, Univ. of Pennsylvania

"...the explanatory notes to his facsimiles cannot be taken seriously by any scholar, as they seem to be undoubtedly the work of pure imagination."
Rev. Prof. C.A.B. Mercer, Ph.D., Western Theological Seminary, Custodian Hibbard Collection, Egyptian Reproductions.

"The Egyptian papyrus which Smith declared to be the 'Book of Abraham,' and 'translated' or explained in his fantastical way, and of which are three specimens are published in the 'Pearl of Great Price' are parts of the well known 'Book of the Dead.' Although the reproductions are very bad, one can easily recognize familiar scenes from this book."
Dr. Edward Meyer, University of Berlin

"A careful study has convinced me that Smith probably believed seriously to have deciphered the ancient hieroglyphics, but that he utterly failed. What he calls the 'Book of Abraham' is a funeral Egyptian text, probably not older than the Greek ages."
Dr. Friedrich Freiheer Von Bissing, Professor of Egyptology in the University of Munich

The Book of Abraham | Mormonism Research Ministry

Both Hoffmann and Joseph Smith were able to con gullible LDS leaders.

I reject Joseph Smith as a Prophet of God and I reject Mark Hoffman as a honest antiquarian. Both were con-men.

And the LDS deity is welcome to change my skin pigmentation if this is deemed un-delightsome by him. (2 Nephi 5:21). Any color is fine by me.

 

[4x4toy]

Sure. Your leaders were hoodwinked by Mark Hoffmann AND they bought into Joseph Smith's Book of Abraham forgery.


The Book of Abraham | Mormonism Research Ministry

Both Hoffmann and Joseph Smith were able to con gullible LDS leaders.

I reject Joseph Smith as a Prophet of God and I reject Mark Hoffman as a honest antiquarian. Both were con-men.

And the LDS deity is welcome to change my skin pigmentation if this is deemed un-delightsome by him. (2 Nephi 5:21). Any color is fine by me.

I remember Hoffman in the news " White Salamander " .. He had the perfect scam till he blowed his self up ... I'd love to see all that stuff hid away in the Mormon vaults ..