If not Mary then who?

[shinbits]

Well there will be time in your life where you just may actually ask Jesus himself if his Mother "Didn't do Jack". or her role is comparable to a fat lazy man watching TV.

I wonder if you will be happy with the response.

Just let us know in advance before you ask him so we can grab a good seat and get some popcorn.

I didn't equate Mary raising Christ to a fat man watching TV. The Catholics in this thread just have poor reading comprehension.

I said Paladinvaler's logic could equate Mary to being like a fat man on TV.

Way to falsely accuse someone.

 

[shinbits]

Honestly, this misquoting of me, and all these false accusations, are typical of what I've seen defenders of the RCC Mary doctrine do. When they can't argue against me, they strawman me. Sad really.

 

[PaladinValer]

If Martin Luther, John Calvin, Ulrich Zwingli, and John Wesley were to each look at some of these posts, they would be weeping.

 

[MamaZ]

God the Son was not born. Jesus was. Jesus is the Christ, who is God the Son Incarnate. Therefore, it is theologically incorrect to say that Christ was clothed in a human body, since Christ is the Incarnation. God the Son took upon human vesture, but that vesture is Jesus the Christ in hypostatic union.

Sabellianism, not Christianity. Jesus =/= Holy Spirit.



And St. Mary the Theotokos outdid them all by giving birth to God.

So God the Son was not birthed?

 

[Anglian]

Dear MamaZ,

God the Son was not 'birthed'. He was begotten of His Father before all worlds; Light of Light, Very God of Very God, Begotten not made; Being of one Essence with the Father.

For us men and for our salvation he was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary, and was made man. He is wholly human and wholly divine. The Blessed Virgin gave birth to the Incarnation of both natures. This the Church decided back in 431 at Ephesus when the Nestorians were confounded in their impious view that St. Mary gave birth only to the man Jesus.

I don't know whether your Church believes what Christians have believed since the beginning. Jesus was not simply a man in whom the Spirit dwelt; neither was he a man who was adopted by the Spirit; He was the Son of God and the Son of Man. As St. Gregory once commented: 'What was not assumed was not saved.'

The Blessed Theotokos is a pattern of obedience to the rest of us. She submitted wholly to the Divine will - even when her only son hung on the Cross. How many of us could have shown such submission to God's will in that circumstance? Christians have followed the word of the angel and have called her blessed through all generations.


peace,

Anglian

 

[boswd]

I didn't equate Mary raising Christ to a fat man watching TV. The Catholics in this thread just have poor reading comprehension.

I said Paladinvaler's logic could equate Mary to being like a fat man on TV.

Way to falsely accuse someone.

Did you not say and I quote "Mary did not do JACK"?

Again as I said in the above post, you will have a time in your life when you just may have the oprotunity to ask Jesus himself whether Mary "Did Not Do Jack".

And again I would love to grab a seat and some popcorn while you ask this question.

 

[boswd]

[/color]
Work on your reading comprehension. It seems to need improvement.

I said she had no choice in whether or not salvation came to the world, not that she couldn't chose whether to take part in it.

Seriously.


So you're saying Mary had the power to stop Christ, who is God, from entering the world, and doing the Father's will? Sad.


So when I said Mary was a really good woman, that wasn't honoring her?

Your reading comprehension is sad.

I think the lady at my local coffee shop is a really good woman, I don't honor her.

 

[boswd]

I didn't equate Mary raising Christ to a fat man watching TV. The Catholics in this thread just have poor reading comprehension.

I said Paladinvaler's logic could equate Mary to being like a fat man on TV.

Way to falsely accuse someone.

Interesting how you said "Catholics" in this thread misreading your quotes. Hmm is there some subconscience agenda against them? From what I've seen in these past three pages it has been a Methodist, an Angllican and an Orthodox who found your comments demeaning and disrespectful to Mary.
Not a Catholic to be found.

intereresting you said that. Which I hold to my other quote, If the Catholics did not revere Mary as much I think you would have a 180 turn around on your opinion of Mary. Just a guess though.

 

[boswd]

Honestly, this misquoting of me, and all these false accusations, are typical of what I've seen defenders of the RCC Mary doctrine do. When they can't argue against me, they strawman me. Sad really.

again what Catholic has been arguing with you since you voiced your opinon?

that's not to say some might not jump in from this point on. But this is twice you have said this.

Very interesting.

 

[Safffron]

It is wrong to exalt Mary as anything other then a pure woman. She is not to be worshipped in the least. She herself would be outraged by anyone bowing down to her as something special. When Peter performed a miracle, some people fell on their knees to worship him, but to no avail. He reproved them sharply, saying he was not God. The Bible refers to all of God's people as saints. And a saint is simply a true follower of Jesus. Still, the Bible calls Mary blessed, and God picked her to be his Son's mother. For that reason, she should be highly respected.

 

[boswd]

.

 

[Christos Anesti]

It is wrong to exalt Mary as anything other then a pure woman

Mary was a defied human. That is an incredibly exalted "thing". It's hard to think of anything more exalted save God Himself.

When Peter performed a miracle, some people fell on their knees to worship him

He rejected their idolatry. I can't speak for other Churches but mine doesn't make the Theotokos into an idol.

 

[shinbits]

Did you not say and I quote "Mary did not do JACK"?

Yup. But you still you misquoted me with the fat man thing. And it's still sad.

 

[shinbits]

I think the lady at my local coffee shop is a really good woman, I don't honor her.

You have just honored her by bring up to light her good character. If she knew how you felt about her, she'd be honored.

 

[shinbits]

Interesting how you said "Catholics" in this thread misreading your quotes. Hmm is there some subconscience agenda against them? From what I've seen in these past three pages it has been a Methodist, an Angllican and an Orthodox who found your comments demeaning and disrespectful to Mary.
Not a Catholic to be found.

intereresting you said that. Which I hold to my other quote, If the Catholics did not revere Mary as much I think you would have a 180 turn around on your opinion of Mary. Just a guess though.

Okay, a Mary worshipper. Feel better?

 

[shinbits]

again what Catholic has been arguing with you since you voiced your opinon?

that's not to say some might not jump in from this point on. But this is twice you have said this.

Very interesting.

see above post

 

[shinbits]

.

 

[Anglian]

It is wrong to exalt Mary as anything other then a pure woman. She is not to be worshipped in the least. She herself would be outraged by anyone bowing down to her as something special. When Peter performed a miracle, some people fell on their knees to worship him, but to no avail. He reproved them sharply, saying he was not God. The Bible refers to all of God's people as saints. And a saint is simply a true follower of Jesus. Still, the Bible calls Mary blessed, and God picked her to be his Son's mother. For that reason, she should be highly respected.

Dear Saffron,

A few questions if I might?
1. Who is exalting the Blessed Virgin as anything more than just that?
2. Who is worshipping the Blessed Virgin?
3. Where do you gain the insight that one who lived in a society where it was customary to honour people by bowing to them would be 'outraged'?

Certainly the Blessed St. Peter rejected those who tried to treat him as something special, but then he had not borne in his womb the person of Our Saviour. In my own society, we bow to the Queen, and even to a judge who is her representative; it does not mean we worship them, even though we call judges 'your worship.' We bow to what they represent. When Americans pledge allegiance to the flag they are not worshipping a piece of cloth; neither are they pledging their allegiance to the cloth. It is to the idea and the nation it represents; so too with the Holy Theotokos.

And yes, we would all, I hope agree with your excellent conclusion.

peace be with you,

Anglian

 

[MamaZ]

Dear MamaZ,

God the Son was not 'birthed'. He was begotten of His Father before all worlds; Light of Light, Very God of Very God, Begotten not made; Being of one Essence with the Father.

For us men and for our salvation he was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary, and was made man. He is wholly human and wholly divine. The Blessed Virgin gave birth to the Incarnation of both natures. This the Church decided back in 431 at Ephesus when the Nestorians were confounded in their impious view that St. Mary gave birth only to the man Jesus.

I don't know whether your Church believes what Christians have believed since the beginning. Jesus was not simply a man in whom the Spirit dwelt; neither was he a man who was adopted by the Spirit; He was the Son of God and the Son of Man. As St. Gregory once commented: 'What was not assumed was not saved.'

The Blessed Theotokos is a pattern of obedience to the rest of us. She submitted wholly to the Divine will - even when her only son hung on the Cross. How many of us could have shown such submission to God's will in that circumstance? Christians have followed the word of the angel and have called her blessed through all generations.


peace,

Anglian

Mary birthed the son of God. He was born just as any human baby is born,. He was begotten of the Father and birthed on earth

 

[MamaZ]

Mary is blesssed among women.. Meaning that other women are just as blessed..