If Jesus Were on Earth...

[Hoping2]

I'm not sure what you mean.
Jesus said, the good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth, as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

Yes, He did say that.

You said, "as His primary mission before His death was to spread the gospel of the kingdom of God.
Since it's arrival, the message has changed from prophetic to realized."
Now you say, "in a manner of speaking" the good news of the kingdom is still being preached as a testimony to all nations.
If you say yes, then you must agree "the good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth, as a testimony to all nations".
That's the only manner of speaking there is, isn't there.
What other manner of speaking would be important to the Christian

Instead of preaching it in the future tense, now it is preached in the present tense.

I'm reading... And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
Am I missing something?

Nope.
As long as you're looking at it from a present tense perspective, instead of a future perspective, we are on the same page.

I'm guessing you are suggesting that the gospel of the kingdom has already been preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, but the end hasn't come, because you don't think Jesus is saying the end will come when a testimony has been given to all nations, to God's satisfaction.
Is my guess accurate?

No.
Even if the message has been preached to all of the world, the end need not be instantaneous.

When I consider the purpose of this good news being preached in all the world. Mark 13:10; 1 Timothy 2:3, 4, I don't see that the door has been closed, but I see the potential for millions more to be saved, by having a witness given to them.

I agree.

So, while some think that people all over the world have internet, radio, etc., and they hear preachers from all sorts of denominations, with different and conflicting messages, and so, they have had a testimony, what the Bible says, is quite different.

Interesting concept.
What scriptures do you base that supposition on ?

However, back to what Jesus would be doing... Are you saying, you believe if Jesus was on earth, he would not be preaching the good news of the kingdom, but would be preaching a different message... and what message would that be?
Scriptural support required.

Everything preached by men of God is from the kingdom of God.
But we have gone from it's potential arrival, to life in it now, and how we are to behave in it now.
The message Jesus would be preaching would be the same as Paul, Peter, and John, were preaching.
That being, freedom from sin.

Certainly, you are not saying that this - Matthew 28:18-20; Acts 1:8 - was, and is not necessary, after Jesus left.
So, what are you saying (Focus being the preaching of the good news of the kingdom)?

That message will be handed down until all men either join in, or reject, the kingdom during their own lives and times.
But more will be taught now than in the year 0.
Freedom from sin, and the destruction of the flesh so we can walk in the Spirit, and the total results of a real repentance from sin, are among the new things.

The media reports world events.
When we listen to the truth they present, it is "according to God", since it's fulfillment of Bible prophecy.

The world's news is of the world, and not of God.
If they ever present God's truth, it would probably be by accident.

Jesus said, at Matthew 24:6-8, 33
6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!
So, it is good to pay attention to reports that come from reliable sources, rather than claims from people on internet forums, because they seldom say anything according to God.
Would you not agree?

Don't trust any of them.

Did you disagree with the report? If so, why?

Which report ?
Wars, famines, pestilences, and earthquakes have been happening since the beginning of time.
Live each day like it is the last day.
Judgement cometh.

 

[CoreyD]

Yes, He did say that.

Instead of preaching it in the future tense, now it is preached in the present tense.

Yes. The good news of the kingdom is being preached. Present.
What do you mean by future?

Nope.
As long as you're looking at it from a present tense perspective, instead of a future perspective, we are on the same page.

I haven't worked out what you mean by future. An explanation is pending.

No.
Even if the message has been preached to all of the world, the end need not be instantaneous.

There is no need to suggest an instantaneous end.
Instantaneous wasn't mentioned.

What was mentioned, is

• The good news must be preached as a testimony to all the world, before the end comes. Matthew 24:14
• The good news must be preached up until the end of the world. Matthew 28:19, 20
• The good news must be preached to God's satisfaction - a time allowable, for people to have an opportunity to be saved. 1 Timothy 2:3, 4; 2 Peter 3:9

According to the scriptures, the end does follow the preaching of the good news of the kingdom being preached to all, to God's satisfaction.

I agree.

Interesting concept.
What scriptures do you base that supposition on ?

Do you mean what scripture shows that there are many false prophets, and professed Christians claiming to preach the good news, numbering in the billions?
Matthew 7:13-23; 2 Peter 2:1-3

I'm a bit surprised you aren't aware of this, since the apostles did prophesy this great apostasy, and foretold that even from among Christians would come all these different teachings from people wo would leave.
Acts 20:29, 30; 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12
Paul even referred to these ones as ministers of Satan. In other words, Satan has formed many churches, himself, with many ministers, leading billions on the broad road to destruction.

It doesn't require a "lay" person like you and I to need to go University to know what leaving the Church and forming a "new church" or sect, with different teachings is.

Christian denominations are formed through various processes, primarily driven by theological disagreements, administrative issues, and sometimes political motives. 1 2​

Theological differences are a significant factor in the formation of denominations. Issues such as the nature of Jesus, the authority of apostolic succession, biblical hermeneutics, theology, ecclesiology, eschatology, and papal primacy can separate one denomination from another.​

For instance, a number of movements grew out of spiritual revivals, such as Pentecostalism. Doctrinal issues and matters of conscience have also divided Protestants. Still others formed out of administrative issues; Methodism branched off as its own group of denominations when the American Revolutionary War complicated the movement's ability to ordain ministers (it had begun as a movement within the Church of England). In Methodism's case, it has undergone a number of administrative schisms and mergers with other denominations (especially those associated with the holiness movement in the 20th century).​

Did you think that all the denominations are telling the good news of God's kingdom?

Everything preached by men of God is from the kingdom of God.

What's a man of God?
To follow on from that question, what is a Christian?

But we have gone from it's potential arrival, to life in it now, and how we are to behave in it now.
The message Jesus would be preaching would be the same as Paul, Peter, and John, were preaching.
That being, freedom from sin.

Is that what you think the good news of the kingdom is?
Is that the message Jesus would have been declaring with his apostles, and what he would be preaching if he was on earth today?

That message will be handed down until all men either join in, or reject, the kingdom during their own lives and times.
But more will be taught now than in the year 0.
Freedom from sin, and the destruction of the flesh so we can walk in the Spirit, and the total results of a real repentance from sin, are among the new things.

Many people believe in preaching "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved" message.
Do you believe that is the good news of God's kingdom?

The world's news is of the world, and not of God.
If they ever present God's truth, it would probably be by accident.

Interesting.
You must not be one of those persons who believe God uses doctors, rulers, and the media.
Would I be correct in that assumption?

Don't trust any of them.

Even when they tell the truth that you can see for yourself? Hmm.

Which report ?
Wars, famines, pestilences, and earthquakes have been happening since the beginning of time.

I'm surprised to hear that from one identifying as a Christian, since it usually is said by ridiculers. 2 Peter 3:3, 4
What Jesus said, was not, when a war happens, or when an earthquake occurs, then know that the end is near, so you surprise me with your statement.
Jesus gave a specific sign that would be observable by all, so that none would have an excuse for saying what you just said.
Matthew 24

Live each day like it is the last day.
Judgement cometh.

Jesus did say keep on the watch. Matthew 24:42
Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day on which your Lord will come.

He also said to take note of, or observe the sign. Luke 12:54-59
So, while we live our life with the end in view, we take Jesus' words to heart, and apply them, because we know doing so means our life.

 

[Hoping2]

Yes. The good news of the kingdom is being preached. Present.
What do you mean by future?
I haven't worked out what you mean by future. An explanation is pending.

From Jesus' perspective, (as per the context of my answer), He was preaching about a coming kingdom.
It is here now, in our hearts.
That is what we now preach.

There is no need to suggest an instantaneous end.
Instantaneous wasn't mentioned.

You seemed to combine 'preached to all the world' and 'the end will come' as one event.
I don't.
Some time may elapse between the two events.

What was mentioned, is

• The good news must be preached as a testimony to all the world, before the end comes. Matthew 24:14
• The good news must be preached up until the end of the world. Matthew 28:19, 20
• The good news must be preached to God's satisfaction - a time allowable, for people to have an opportunity to be saved. 1 Timothy 2:3, 4; 2 Peter 3:9

According to the scriptures, the end does follow the preaching of the good news of the kingdom being preached to all, to God's satisfaction.

The end will indeed follow the completion of the preaching to the world, but does that mean the very same day the last person hears of it ?
I don't think so.

Do you mean what scripture shows that there are many false prophets, and professed Christians claiming to preach the good news, numbering in the billions?
Matthew 7:13-23; 2 Peter 2:1-3

No, the "interesting concept", was your juxtaposition of the world already having been testified to, against not having yet been testified to.

I'm a bit surprised you aren't aware of this, since the apostles did prophesy this great apostasy, and foretold that even from among Christians would come all these different teachings from people wo would leave.
Acts 20:29, 30; 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12
Paul even referred to these ones as ministers of Satan. In other words, Satan has formed many churches, himself, with many ministers, leading billions on the broad road to destruction.

I am aware of it, but I don't label those evil ministers as "Christians".
I call them "posers".

It doesn't require a "lay" person like you and I to need to go University to know what leaving the Church and forming a "new church" or sect, with different teachings is.

It depends on if the "church" being left was of God or not.
I left a false one to join the real one.

Did you think that all the denominations are telling the good news of God's kingdom?​

Not at all.
However, some are telling the truth, but contorting it to fit a personal agenda.

What's a man of God?
To follow on from that question, what is a Christian?

The answer to both questions is...one who obeys God in all things.

Is that what you think the good news of the kingdom is?
Is that the message Jesus would have been declaring with his apostles, and what he would be preaching if he was on earth today?

The good news is that Jesus died for our sins.
The follow up, however, is that we can now be free of the flesh and of sin.
That is what the apostles preached in Jesus' name.
So too would Jesus.

Many people believe in preaching "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved" message.
Do you believe that is the good news of God's kingdom?

No, that is a false doctrine.
Though true in a sense, that being that the true believers will be saved on the day of judgement; the follow up to their preaching is anything but of God.

Interesting.
You must not be one of those persons who believe God uses doctors, rulers, and the media.
Would I be correct in that assumption?

Not really.
God can use anyone He wants for anything He wants.
More often than not, though, news casters/media are not being used by God.

Even when they tell the truth that you can see for yourself? Hmm.

As we have no way of knowing when they speak truth, it is superfluous to think that any of it is true.

I'm surprised to hear that from one identifying as a Christian, since it usually is said by ridiculers. 2 Peter 3:3, 4
What Jesus said, was not, when a war happens, or when an earthquake occurs, then know that the end is near, so you surprise me with your statement.
Jesus gave a specific sign that would be observable by all, so that none would have an excuse for saying what you just said.
Matthew 24

If you want to look at every worldly event as an omen, feel free.
I know that until we see Jesus coming in the clouds, with His angels, that life will continue on.

Jesus did say keep on the watch. Matthew 24:42
Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day on which your Lord will come.
He also said to take note of, or observe the sign. Luke 12:54-59
So, while we live our life with the end in view, we take Jesus' words to heart, and apply them, because we know doing so means our life.

Keep watch.
Things will keep getting worse, before the end of time.

 

[CoreyD]

From Jesus' perspective, (as per the context of my answer), He was preaching about a coming kingdom.
It is here now, in our hearts.
That is what we now preach.

Are you saying that the good news about the kingdom, was about the kingdom coming?
Can you show me where that is, in scripture, please.

Also, the Jesus refers to the Kingdom of the heavens. Not the kingdom of the heart.
While there is nothing wrong with holding the kingdom dear to us - "in our heart", the kingdom is not in anyone's heart. It is in heaven - a heavenly kingdom, or government. Psalm 2:6; Luke 22:28-30; John 18:36; Hebrews 12:22

You seemed to combine 'preached to all the world' and 'the end will come' as one event.
I don't.
Some time may elapse between the two events.

Are you asking me, what I am saying, or are you telling me?
Did I say that? Can you show me where I did, please?

I referred to Noah's day, and when God told Noah to enter the ark, and he shut the door, so if you are following, it should have been clear that I am not even thinking what you are saying.
Where in the Bible does it say some time will elapse though.

The end will indeed follow the completion of the preaching to the world, but does that mean the very same day the last person hears of it ?
I don't think so.

Who is saying that, and why are you bringing it up?
What does it matter?

No, the "interesting concept", was your juxtaposition of the world already having been testified to, against not having yet been testified to.

I'm only using the scriptures.
You said you don't think the end has come, which is obvious, so why would you not agree that the good news is still being preached, since Jesus said that as his followers preached, he would be with them until the end of the world?

I am aware of it, but I don't label those evil ministers as "Christians".
I call them "posers".

It depends on if the "church" being left was of God or not.
I left a false one to join the real one.

Not at all.
However, some are telling the truth, but contorting it to fit a personal agenda.

Well, that's why I asked if you disagreed with the report I posted from data provided in the media.

The answer to both questions is...one who obeys God in all things.

That's not much, is it.

The good news is that Jesus died for our sins.
The follow up, however, is that we can now be free of the flesh and of sin.
That is what the apostles preached in Jesus' name.
So too would Jesus.

Thank you for sharing that.
So, either you don't believe Jesus preached the good news of the kingdom, or the good news of the kingdom is a different message to what you believe it is.

The scriptures show the latter is a fact.
Jesus did not preach that Christ died for our sins, but indeed he preached the good news of the kingdom, from the start of his ministry Matthew 4:23, until the time for his ascension. Acts 1:3

Luke 8:1
Soon afterward, Jesus traveled from one town and village to another, preaching and proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with Him,

The messages the apostles preached were not the same, although they were related in some way.
Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip as he preached the gospel of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
See Acts 28:31

The kingdom is something to enter into John 3:5. Not the other way around.

No, that is a false doctrine.
Though true in a sense, that being that the true believers will be saved on the day of judgement; the follow up to their preaching is anything but of God.

Not really.
God can use anyone He wants for anything He wants.
More often than not, though, news casters/media are not being used by God.

More often than not, nobody but his followers are being used by God.
That's little more than 1%

As we have no way of knowing when they speak truth, it is superfluous to think that any of it is true.

That's not an accurate statement.
We can verify reliable sources, by researching multiple sources, and also checking reliability.
There are ways to know the truth.
Don't you research things for yourself. Would you say you do not know the truth, when you do so?

If you want to look at every worldly event as an omen, feel free.

I don't want to do that, and I know you are aware of that.
You know that people make stawmen for a living, right.
They don't need us to do that, you know.

It does look easy to do.
Forums don't need them though.

I know that until we see Jesus coming in the clouds, with His angels, that life will continue on.

For some people, it will.
Millions die every year.
However, it is true, we await the end, where life will go on for a considerable number. So, vast, you can't number them. Revelation 7:9-17

Keep watch.
Things will keep getting worse, before the end of time.

Ah good!
So you do agree with me.

Hoping2 said:

Is it really worse ?
I actually think it is better, now that God's children are here manifesting Father's will and grace.​

I did get the feeling you were just arguing with me, for the sake of argument.
Thanks for keeping my company.

 

[Hoping2]

Are you saying that the good news about the kingdom, was about the kingdom coming?
Can you show me where that is, in scripture, please.

It was the good news, before the kingdom arrived.
Matt 4:17..."From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

Also, the Jesus refers to the Kingdom of the heavens. Not the kingdom of the heart.

There is no difference.

While there is nothing wrong with holding the kingdom dear to us - "in our heart", the kingdom is not in anyone's heart. It is in heaven - a heavenly kingdom, or government. Psalm 2:6; Luke 22:28-30; John 18:36; Hebrews 12:22

Luke 17:20-21..."And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."

Are you asking me, what I am saying, or are you telling me?
Did I say that? Can you show me where I did, please?

Neither, as I misread your words in post #22..."There is no need to suggest an instantaneous end."

I referred to Noah's day, and when God told Noah to enter the ark, and he shut the door, so if you are following, it should have been clear that I am not even thinking what you are saying.

See above...

Where in the Bible does it say some time will elapse though.

It doesn't specifically say it.
I'm not quoting anyone with my POV.

Who is saying that, and why are you bringing it up?
What does it matter?

My misread led me to that comment, which now seems unnecessary.

I'm only using the scriptures.
You said you don't think the end has come, which is obvious, so why would you not agree that the good news is still being preached, since Jesus said that as his followers preached, he would be with them until the end of the world?

It depends on what one thinks is the good news/gospel.

Well, that's why I asked if you disagreed with the report I posted from data provided in the media.

I could not locate that post, so won't comment on it.

That's not much, is it.

That is right.

Thank you for sharing that.
So, either you don't believe Jesus preached the good news of the kingdom, or the good news of the kingdom is a different message to what you believe it is.

The good news of the kingdom is a different message than the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The scriptures show the latter is a fact.
Jesus did not preach that Christ died for our sins, but indeed he preached the good news of the kingdom, from the start of his ministry Matthew 4:23, until the time for his ascension. Acts 1:3
Luke 8:1
Soon afterward, Jesus traveled from one town and village to another, preaching and proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with Him,
The messages the apostles preached were not the same, although they were related in some way.
Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip as he preached the gospel of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
See Acts 28:31

We are talking about two different things

The kingdom is something to enter into John 3:5. Not the other way around..

It is both. Luke 19:20-21..."And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."

More often than not, nobody but his followers are being used by God.
That's little more than 1%

That being the case then, relying on media for news is not a wise move.

That's not an accurate statement.
We can verify reliable sources, by researching multiple sources, and also checking reliability.
There are ways to know the truth.
Don't you research things for yourself. Would you say you do not know the truth, when you do so?

I place no value on the world's reliability.
If I am interested in something, I will do my own research.

I don't want to do that, and I know you are aware of that.
You know that people make stawmen for a living, right.
They don't need us to do that, you know.
It does look easy to do.
Forums don't need them though.

OK.

For some people, it will.
Millions die every year.
However, it is true, we await the end, where life will go on for a considerable number. So, vast, you can't number them. Revelation 7:9-17

That is what is written.

Ah good!
So you do agree with me.

Hoping2 said:

Is it really worse ?​

I actually think it is better, now that God's children are here manifesting Father's will and grace.​

I did get the feeling you were just arguing with me, for the sake of argument.
Thanks for keeping my company.

OK, see you around.

 

[CoreyD]

If Jesus were on earth today, he would have to hide more often than he did, in the first century, from masses of people trying to kill him, because they hated him... not because of any wrong he did, but because he said things they do not like.
Matthew 12:14; Matthew 14:5; Matthew 25:3, 4; Mark 11:18; John 5:18;
John 15:25 - But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated Me without reason.’

The masses of people seeking to kill Jesus, would not be world rulers, who would find no fault in him, but the masses of people trying to kill Jesus would be religious leaders, and their millions of supporters.
John 19:4

Once again Pilate came out and said to the Jews, “Look, I am bringing Him out to you to let you know that I find no basis for a charge against Him.”​

Luke 23:13-16 - ... Neither has Herod, for he sent Him back to us. As you can see, He has done nothing deserving of death. ...

Matthew 16:21

From that time on Jesus began to show His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests, and scribes, and that He must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.​

Foremost among these would be supporters of Christianity today, who would feel threatened by Jesus' words against their teachings, and hypocrisy. Matthew 15:3-14;