If I'm not a Christian, it's because I don't want to deny self, take cross

[Bob8102]

I have been trying to be saved for ten years. Sometimes, I think I have become a Christian, at other times, not. I can totally sincerely tell Jesus that I am accepting Him as Lord and Savior, that I am surrendering, asking Him to "take me." But, partly because of my OCD, I always doubt, shortly. I say "partly," because the other part of the reason to NOT believe I'm a Christian is the lack of it seeming like I am one on a moment by moment, on-going basis.

If I am not willing to live the Christian life, it must be especially that requirement to deny oneself and take up one's cross. I am not fully sure what "deny myself" would mean in my case. I know that part of "deny self" must be to realize that I have an evil, sinful nature, and that following all the impulses of my heart is not good. Any sins of commission or omission are not right. But denying self may involve more than just that.

I read an online article called "Rediscovering Discipleship." It says that a condemned Roman prisoner would take abuse from the crowd on his way to the place of execution. It said that sometimes, prisoners would be relieved to reach the place of execution because of that. So, "taking up one's cross" means more than just being willing to die for Jesus. It means being tortured along the way.

Sometimes, when I "give my life to Christ," I THINK I count the cost, and decide just to trust Him, anyway. But always, in the long run, I am plagued with thoughts that I didn't really mean it when I gave Him my life, that I am a liar/fake/hypocrite. Am I for real or am I fake? That is always the question.

A Christian friend of mine has told me things like I'm too into my self, not looking at Him. And that I should, instead of sitting around and ruminating about my apparent lack of faith, get up off my butt and commit a loving act towards someone. I could guess that committing a loving act might "certify" that I am a Christian. But then, it should not be just one loving act, but a whole life full of them. But even then, I might not be "certified" because one is not saved by works. Was Mother Teresa a Christian? If so, it wasn't because of all the good work she did. It was because at some point, she surrendered her life to Jesus.

This Christian friend says that her favorite, or one of her favorite, authors is CS Lewis. She not long ago suggested that I reread "Mere Christianity." I did so. "Book IV," chapter 7, is entitled, "Let's Pretend." It says that one should, whenever one realizes there is a choice, do the inconvenient thing of doing something good, such as doing something for someone else. It says the more one makes this choice, the more natural it becomes, the more Christlike one grows. It gives the example of "Beauty and the Beast," wherein the girl treated this ugly guy like he was a handsome prince, and then he actually became one. It seemed to me that this chapter is saying, "fake it till you make it." But she says absolutely not; the chapter is telling people who already are Christians to obey, regardless of how they feel.

That's the key: "people who are already Christians." Notes in my David Jeremiah Study Bible on James, "faith without works is dead," say that both Paul and James agreed that good works are not the path to salvation, but the result of it. To me, that begs the question, "What is the path to salvation?" I am obsessed with the "moment of salvation." This may well be because, in at least my subconscious motives/thoughts, I figure that if one can just get saved - and one can get saved in a moment - that there is something of a "free ride" after that. Sure, you're supposed to keep submitting/obeying, but even if you don't, you're still saved. Ah! The Catch-22! If you don't keep up the Christian walk, then there's a good chance you were never saved in the first place.

I can imagine myself in certain biblical scenarios. Jesus could say, "You lazy and wicked servant. By your own words I will judge you." He could say, "Hard, am I? I'll show you how hard I can be..."

If I am not a Christian, I suppose, as I said, my stumbling block is "deny yourself and take up your cross."

Here's another Catch-22-ish consideration. When you give your life to Christ, I suppose you are promising to follow Jesus the rest of your life. What, He BELIEVES you? I suppose then, that my subconscious thought may be I need to fool Jesus (and myself) into believing I intend to trust/follow Him the rest of my life. Then He will save me. Then: free ride!

Someone as cynical as that may be unsaveable. Jesus said to count the cost. Jesus looks into the heart. The problem is, the heart is deceitful and wicked above all else; who can know it? Whether or not one is really a Christian seems to be a tricky, tricky, tricky matter. That's because the human heart/psychology is tricky, tricky, tricky.

 

[pdudgeon]

I have been trying to be saved for ten years. Sometimes, I think I have become a Christian, at other times, not. I can totally sincerely tell Jesus that I am accepting Him as Lord and Savior, that I am surrendering, asking Him to "take me." But, partly because of my OCD, I always doubt, shortly. I say "partly," because the other part of the reason to NOT believe I'm a Christian is the lack of it seeming like I am one on a moment by moment, on-going basis.

If I am not willing to live the Christian life, it must be especially that requirement to deny oneself and take up one's cross. I am not fully sure what "deny myself" would mean in my case. I know that part of "deny self" must be to realize that I have an evil, sinful nature, and that following all the impulses of my heart is not good. Any sins of commission or omission are not right. But denying self may involve more than just that.

I read an online article called "Rediscovering Discipleship." It says that a condemned Roman prisoner would take abuse from the crowd on his way to the place of execution. It said that sometimes, prisoners would be relieved to reach the place of execution because of that. So, "taking up one's cross" means more than just being willing to die for Jesus. It means being tortured along the way.

Sometimes, when I "give my life to Christ," I THINK I count the cost, and decide just to trust Him, anyway. But always, in the long run, I am plagued with thoughts that I didn't really mean it when I gave Him my life, that I am a liar/fake/hypocrite. Am I for real or am I fake? That is always the question.

A Christian friend of mine has told me things like I'm too into my self, not looking at Him. And that I should, instead of sitting around and ruminating about my apparent lack of faith, get up off my butt and commit a loving act towards someone. I could guess that committing a loving act might "certify" that I am a Christian. But then, it should not be just one loving act, but a whole life full of them. But even then, I might not be "certified" because one is not saved by works. Was Mother Teresa a Christian? If so, it wasn't because of all the good work she did. It was because at some point, she surrendered her life to Jesus.

This Christian friend says that her favorite, or one of her favorite, authors is CS Lewis. She not long ago suggested that I reread "Mere Christianity." I did so. "Book IV," chapter 7, is entitled, "Let's Pretend." It says that one should, whenever one realizes there is a choice, do the inconvenient thing of doing something good, such as doing something for someone else. It says the more one makes this choice, the more natural it becomes, the more Christlike one grows. It gives the example of "Beauty and the Beast," wherein the girl treated this ugly guy like he was a handsome prince, and then he actually became one. It seemed to me that this chapter is saying, "fake it till you make it." But she says absolutely not; the chapter is telling people who already are Christians to obey, regardless of how they feel.

That's the key: "people who are already Christians." Notes in my David Jeremiah Study Bible on James, "faith without works is dead," say that both Paul and James agreed that good works are not the path to salvation, but the result of it. To me, that begs the question, "What is the path to salvation?" I am obsessed with the "moment of salvation." This may well be because, in at least my subconscious motives/thoughts, I figure that if one can just get saved - and one can get saved in a moment - that there is something of a "free ride" after that. Sure, you're supposed to keep submitting/obeying, but even if you don't, you're still saved. Ah! The Catch-22! If you don't keep up the Christian walk, then there's a good chance you were never saved in the first place.

I can imagine myself in certain biblical scenarios. Jesus could say, "You lazy and wicked servant. By your own words I will judge you." He could say, "Hard, am I? I'll show you how hard I can be..."

If I am not a Christian, I suppose, as I said, my stumbling block is "deny yourself and take up your cross."

Here's another Catch-22-ish consideration. When you give your life to Christ, I suppose you are promising to follow Jesus the rest of your life. What, He BELIEVES you? I suppose then, that my subconscious thought may be I need to fool Jesus (and myself) into believing I intend to trust/follow Him the rest of my life. Then He will save me. Then: free ride!

Someone as cynical as that may be unsaveable. Jesus said to count the cost. Jesus looks into the heart. The problem is, the heart is deceitful and wicked above all else; who can know it? Whether or not one is really a Christian seems to be a tricky, tricky, tricky matter. That's because the human heart/psychology is tricky, tricky, tricky.

ok, let's make this a little easier.

The real stumbling block is not "deny yourself and take up your cross".
The real stumbling block is this:
"Can you implicitly trust someone you've never met to do something for you that you are incapable of doing for yourself, and in a way that you can't see being done? "

Don't worry, you are in good company!
There are many people who have second and third thoughts about the need to trust in Christ and His abilities, rather than having something solid to count on...like themselves and their own abilities, for instance.
The Apostle, Peter, (our first Pope) was famous for that. But he learned to get over his fear by remembering what Christ had already done for him and for others, that had seemed to be impossible.

When you are faced with those moments of indecision, it is always helpful to remember what Christ has already done for both you, and for others that you know.

And when you remember those times, grab a sheet of paper and write them down!

Keep that sheet of paper somewhere handy and where you can find it, because that is a very good weapon to use in the times when you have doubts.

Every time when Christ comes through and helps with your problems, those are times when you win a victory over your doubts. And winning those victories is what will help you to grow stronger and more confident, because you have the proof that you need right there in your hand.

Try it! And then when you wonder if you have been saved or not, remember that God our Father trusted Christ, and He trusted that Christ would do what was necessary in order to save everyone that needed and asked to be saved, because Christ loves us and He loves God.
Being saved has it's basis in two things only: Our love of God, and our trust in Him.

All the rest has already been covered by Christ in His love, His obedience, His mercy and His compassion.

 

[GaveMeJoy]

I have been trying to be saved for ten years. Sometimes, I think I have become a Christian, at other times, not. I can totally sincerely tell Jesus that I am accepting Him as Lord and Savior, that I am surrendering, asking Him to "take me." But, partly because of my OCD, I always doubt, shortly. I say "partly," because the other part of the reason to NOT believe I'm a Christian is the lack of it seeming like I am one on a moment by moment, on-going basis.

If I am not willing to live the Christian life, it must be especially that requirement to deny oneself and take up one's cross. I am not fully sure what "deny myself" would mean in my case. I know that part of "deny self" must be to realize that I have an evil, sinful nature, and that following all the impulses of my heart is not good. Any sins of commission or omission are not right. But denying self may involve more than just that.

I read an online article called "Rediscovering Discipleship." It says that a condemned Roman prisoner would take abuse from the crowd on his way to the place of execution. It said that sometimes, prisoners would be relieved to reach the place of execution because of that. So, "taking up one's cross" means more than just being willing to die for Jesus. It means being tortured along the way.

Sometimes, when I "give my life to Christ," I THINK I count the cost, and decide just to trust Him, anyway. But always, in the long run, I am plagued with thoughts that I didn't really mean it when I gave Him my life, that I am a liar/fake/hypocrite. Am I for real or am I fake? That is always the question.

A Christian friend of mine has told me things like I'm too into my self, not looking at Him. And that I should, instead of sitting around and ruminating about my apparent lack of faith, get up off my butt and commit a loving act towards someone. I could guess that committing a loving act might "certify" that I am a Christian. But then, it should not be just one loving act, but a whole life full of them. But even then, I might not be "certified" because one is not saved by works. Was Mother Teresa a Christian? If so, it wasn't because of all the good work she did. It was because at some point, she surrendered her life to Jesus.

This Christian friend says that her favorite, or one of her favorite, authors is CS Lewis. She not long ago suggested that I reread "Mere Christianity." I did so. "Book IV," chapter 7, is entitled, "Let's Pretend." It says that one should, whenever one realizes there is a choice, do the inconvenient thing of doing something good, such as doing something for someone else. It says the more one makes this choice, the more natural it becomes, the more Christlike one grows. It gives the example of "Beauty and the Beast," wherein the girl treated this ugly guy like he was a handsome prince, and then he actually became one. It seemed to me that this chapter is saying, "fake it till you make it." But she says absolutely not; the chapter is telling people who already are Christians to obey, regardless of how they feel.

That's the key: "people who are already Christians." Notes in my David Jeremiah Study Bible on James, "faith without works is dead," say that both Paul and James agreed that good works are not the path to salvation, but the result of it. To me, that begs the question, "What is the path to salvation?" I am obsessed with the "moment of salvation." This may well be because, in at least my subconscious motives/thoughts, I figure that if one can just get saved - and one can get saved in a moment - that there is something of a "free ride" after that. Sure, you're supposed to keep submitting/obeying, but even if you don't, you're still saved. Ah! The Catch-22! If you don't keep up the Christian walk, then there's a good chance you were never saved in the first place.

I can imagine myself in certain biblical scenarios. Jesus could say, "You lazy and wicked servant. By your own words I will judge you." He could say, "Hard, am I? I'll show you how hard I can be..."

If I am not a Christian, I suppose, as I said, my stumbling block is "deny yourself and take up your cross."

Here's another Catch-22-ish consideration. When you give your life to Christ, I suppose you are promising to follow Jesus the rest of your life. What, He BELIEVES you? I suppose then, that my subconscious thought may be I need to fool Jesus (and myself) into believing I intend to trust/follow Him the rest of my life. Then He will save me. Then: free ride!

Someone as cynical as that may be unsaveable. Jesus said to count the cost. Jesus looks into the heart. The problem is, the heart is deceitful and wicked above all else; who can know it? Whether or not one is really a Christian seems to be a tricky, tricky, tricky matter. That's because the human heart/psychology is tricky, tricky, tricky.

hey bob it takes big courage to step out and share this. My testimony of how I found the submission and take up your cross element of knowing Jesus was a long road. I spent 25 years as a pastors son doing missions trips and then living the normal Christian wife two Christian kids and football after church American dream life.

I couldn’t figure out why I always felt like there was something missing in my relationship with Jesus. I sought to count the cost and do the right stuff like you are describing but was unhappy and unfulfilled.

two years ago my wife abruptly gave up Christianity, and got in with the world, the divorced me and took my kids. It’s crazy but the pain from this was so severe, and to this day so crushing that the “old/normal” me would have never been able to handle it. But that’s when I met Jesus as my dad. Not just my God, but the daddy who I had to cling to in abject fear and pain, calling out in brokenness and asking him to help me breathe because I lost everything. Through depending on him I realized not what the cost was, but what the GAIN is. I found the joy of my salvation and prayed every day for him to give me joy and peace. And he did! I had fought addictions to sports and tv and food my whole life and failed, always trying to give it up for Jesus and never doing it. Once I found the joy, I quit sports and tv and lost 50 pounds and realized I didn’t want that stuff anymore.

I’m going to leave the list of verses I read often, that i collected that have strengthened me. I hope they help free you from any cost and help you pray for the joy. It’s not an emotion it’s a promise!

I have a thumb drive with 20 sermon MP3’s I listened to that helped me find it. Send me a message if you would like me to mail it to you. My only ask if you do, is that you download them then pass the drive along to someone else looking to grow in joy.
In Christ
J

 

[Sanoy]

OCD is in the body, not the spirit. Take a look at Romans 7. Paul divides us into two beings, it is not the body that is saved, but the spirit inside it who seeks God. It is the seeking of the spirit inside that avails oneself of salvation, not the power to overcome the flesh. The power to overcome the flesh comes not from you, but from the transformative power of the Holy Spirit. That is the real Journey of Christianity, continually availing oneself of God's grace, not through works but through our heart's response and actions toward him. Succumbing to sin is counted to the flesh, while grace is confidently counted to the repentant spirit who seeks to overcome those things. Your OCD is counted to the flesh, Love and believe in God in your spirit. I think that you should also set a time of prayer each day, for years if it takes it, to pray to the Spirit to assure you of your salvation or lead you into it. When the Spirit assures you, it will win over the OCD. If you are not I would begin attending a church where the Love of Christ is seen, praying regularly, removing things and music that are antagonistic to God or your mood, reading scripture regularly: starting with what you can.

 

[Bob8102]

GaveMeJoy

hey bob it takes big courage to step out and share this. My testimony of how I found the submission and take up your cross element of knowing Jesus was a long road. I spent 25 years as a pastors son doing missions trips and then living the normal Christian wife two Christian kids and football after church American dream life.

I couldn’t figure out why I always felt like there was something missing in my relationship with Jesus. I sought to count the cost and do the right stuff like you are describing but was unhappy and unfulfilled.

two years ago my wife abruptly gave up Christianity, and got in with the world, the divorced me and took my kids. It’s crazy but the pain from this was so severe, and to this day so crushing that the “old/normal” me would have never been able to handle it. But that’s when I met Jesus as my dad. Not just my God, but the daddy who I had to cling to in abject fear and pain, calling out in brokenness and asking him to help me breathe because I lost everything. Through depending on him I realized not what the cost was, but what the GAIN is. I found the joy of my salvation and prayed every day for him to give me joy and peace. And he did! I had fought addictions to sports and tv and food my whole life and failed, always trying to give it up for Jesus and never doing it. Once I found the joy, I quit sports and tv and lost 50 pounds and realized I didn’t want that stuff anymore.

I’m going to leave the list of verses I read often, that i collected that have strengthened me. I hope they help free you from any cost and help you pray for the joy. It’s not an emotion it’s a promise!

I have a thumb drive with 20 sermon MP3’s I listened to that helped me find it. Send me a message if you would like me to mail it to you. My only ask if you do, is that you download them then pass the drive along to someone else looking to grow in joy.
In Christ
J

:

hey bob it takes big courage to step out and share this. My testimony of how I found the submission and take up your cross element of knowing Jesus was a long road. I spent 25 years as a pastors son doing missions trips and then living the normal Christian wife two Christian kids and football after church American dream life.

I couldn’t figure out why I always felt like there was something missing in my relationship with Jesus. I sought to count the cost and do the right stuff like you are describing but was unhappy and unfulfilled.

two years ago my wife abruptly gave up Christianity, and got in with the world, the divorced me and took my kids. It’s crazy but the pain from this was so severe, and to this day so crushing that the “old/normal” me would have never been able to handle it. But that’s when I met Jesus as my dad. Not just my God, but the daddy who I had to cling to in abject fear and pain, calling out in brokenness and asking him to help me breathe because I lost everything. Through depending on him I realized not what the cost was, but what the GAIN is. I found the joy of my salvation and prayed every day for him to give me joy and peace. And he did! I had fought addictions to sports and tv and food my whole life and failed, always trying to give it up for Jesus and never doing it. Once I found the joy, I quit sports and tv and lost 50 pounds and realized I didn’t want that stuff anymore.

I’m going to leave the list of verses I read often, that i collected that have strengthened me. I hope they help free you from any cost and help you pray for the joy. It’s not an emotion it’s a promise!

I have a thumb drive with 20 sermon MP3’s I listened to that helped me find it. Send me a message if you would like me to mail it to you. My only ask if you do, is that you download them then pass the drive along to someone else looking to grow in joy.
In Christ
J

hey bob it takes big courage to step out and share this. My testimony of how I found the submission and take up your cross element of knowing Jesus was a long road. I spent 25 years as a pastors son doing missions trips and then living the normal Christian wife two Christian kids and football after church American dream life.

I couldn’t figure out why I always felt like there was something missing in my relationship with Jesus. I sought to count the cost and do the right stuff like you are describing but was unhappy and unfulfilled.

two years ago my wife abruptly gave up Christianity, and got in with the world, the divorced me and took my kids. It’s crazy but the pain from this was so severe, and to this day so crushing that the “old/normal” me would have never been able to handle it. But that’s when I met Jesus as my dad. Not just my God, but the daddy who I had to cling to in abject fear and pain, calling out in brokenness and asking him to help me breathe because I lost everything. Through depending on him I realized not what the cost was, but what the GAIN is. I found the joy of my salvation and prayed every day for him to give me joy and peace. And he did! I had fought addictions to sports and tv and food my whole life and failed, always trying to give it up for Jesus and never doing it. Once I found the joy, I quit sports and tv and lost 50 pounds and realized I didn’t want that stuff anymore.

I’m going to leave the list of verses I read often, that i collected that have strengthened me. I hope they help free you from any cost and help you pray for the joy. It’s not an emotion it’s a promise!

I have a thumb drive with 20 sermon MP3’s I listened to that helped me find it. Send me a message if you would like me to mail it to you. My only ask if you do, is that you download them then pass the drive along to someone else looking to grow in joy.
In Christ
J

 

[Bob8102]

GaveMeJoy: I don't know how to send a private message, here. Thanks for your offer. But 20 MP3 sermons sounds like too much for me to handle, right now. I really appreciate your post and your offer.

 

[d taylor]

Receiving eternal life (salvation) has nothing to do with, (accepting Him as Lord and Savior, that I am surrendering, asking Him to "take me.") or (willing to live the Christian life especially that requirement to deny oneself and take up one's cross. ) or (give my life to Christ)

How to receive Eternal Life: believe that Jesus is the promised Messiah from Old Testament prophecies and trust in Him for His gift of His Eternal Life. That is it, there is nothing you can do, to be more saved than trusting in The Messiah for Eternal Life.

Do you believe George Washington was the first president of The United States. You have never seen George Washington alive you only know of His presidency through history. So if you were asked who was the first president of The United States you would answer George Washington. Why because you believe that George Washington was the first president.

So if you were asked by someone how to have eternal life. Would you say faith in The Messiah (Jesus) for eternal life. Because you believe the promise of God in the Bible that.

John 3:14,15 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should
not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

John 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

John 3:18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

John 5:24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

John 5: 39,40 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

John 6:28,29
Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

John 6: 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

John 6:47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

Do you believe, if so you have Eternal Life no other action is required of God

John 5:46,47 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

 

[Albion]

I have been trying to be saved for ten years. Sometimes, I think I have become a Christian, at other times, not. I can totally sincerely tell Jesus that I am accepting Him as Lord and Savior, that I am surrendering, asking Him to "take me." But, partly because of my OCD, I always doubt, shortly. I say "partly," because the other part of the reason to NOT believe I'm a Christian is the lack of it seeming like I am one on a moment by moment, on-going basis.

If I am not willing to live the Christian life, it must be especially that requirement to deny oneself and take up one's cross. I am not fully sure what "deny myself" would mean in my case. I know that part of "deny self" must be to realize that I have an evil, sinful nature, and that following all the impulses of my heart is not good. Any sins of commission or omission are not right. But denying self may involve more than just that.

I read an online article called "Rediscovering Discipleship." It says that a condemned Roman prisoner would take abuse from the crowd on his way to the place of execution. It said that sometimes, prisoners would be relieved to reach the place of execution because of that. So, "taking up one's cross" means more than just being willing to die for Jesus. It means being tortured along the way.

Sometimes, when I "give my life to Christ," I THINK I count the cost, and decide just to trust Him, anyway. But always, in the long run, I am plagued with thoughts that I didn't really mean it when I gave Him my life, that I am a liar/fake/hypocrite. Am I for real or am I fake? That is always the question.

A Christian friend of mine has told me things like I'm too into my self, not looking at Him. And that I should, instead of sitting around and ruminating about my apparent lack of faith, get up off my butt and commit a loving act towards someone. I could guess that committing a loving act might "certify" that I am a Christian. But then, it should not be just one loving act, but a whole life full of them. But even then, I might not be "certified" because one is not saved by works. Was Mother Teresa a Christian? If so, it wasn't because of all the good work she did. It was because at some point, she surrendered her life to Jesus.

This Christian friend says that her favorite, or one of her favorite, authors is CS Lewis. She not long ago suggested that I reread "Mere Christianity." I did so. "Book IV," chapter 7, is entitled, "Let's Pretend." It says that one should, whenever one realizes there is a choice, do the inconvenient thing of doing something good, such as doing something for someone else. It says the more one makes this choice, the more natural it becomes, the more Christlike one grows. It gives the example of "Beauty and the Beast," wherein the girl treated this ugly guy like he was a handsome prince, and then he actually became one. It seemed to me that this chapter is saying, "fake it till you make it." But she says absolutely not; the chapter is telling people who already are Christians to obey, regardless of how they feel.

That's the key: "people who are already Christians." Notes in my David Jeremiah Study Bible on James, "faith without works is dead," say that both Paul and James agreed that good works are not the path to salvation, but the result of it. To me, that begs the question, "What is the path to salvation?" I am obsessed with the "moment of salvation." This may well be because, in at least my subconscious motives/thoughts, I figure that if one can just get saved - and one can get saved in a moment - that there is something of a "free ride" after that. Sure, you're supposed to keep submitting/obeying, but even if you don't, you're still saved. Ah! The Catch-22! If you don't keep up the Christian walk, then there's a good chance you were never saved in the first place.

I can imagine myself in certain biblical scenarios. Jesus could say, "You lazy and wicked servant. By your own words I will judge you." He could say, "Hard, am I? I'll show you how hard I can be..."

If I am not a Christian, I suppose, as I said, my stumbling block is "deny yourself and take up your cross."

Here's another Catch-22-ish consideration. When you give your life to Christ, I suppose you are promising to follow Jesus the rest of your life. What, He BELIEVES you? I suppose then, that my subconscious thought may be I need to fool Jesus (and myself) into believing I intend to trust/follow Him the rest of my life. Then He will save me. Then: free ride!

Someone as cynical as that may be unsaveable. Jesus said to count the cost. Jesus looks into the heart. The problem is, the heart is deceitful and wicked above all else; who can know it? Whether or not one is really a Christian seems to be a tricky, tricky, tricky matter. That's because the human heart/psychology is tricky, tricky, tricky.

Bob, you obviously are not lacking for "smarts." But because of that you seem to be overthinking the matter.

I have no easy answer to give you, but I do think that you have to come to grips with several things.

For one, doubt is not a failing.

For another, sin is a feature of those who are true believers and non-believers alike, the saved and the unsaved.

And, finally, the mix of belief and works is best understood as a process that shouldn't be analyzed all the time. If you believe in the Lord, you will want to do what he taught, just as a believer in climate control should want to recycle without anguishing over it or counting the pros and cons or second-guessing himself every time he misses the garbage pick-up day.

 

[crossnote]

If I am not a Christian, I suppose, as I said, my stumbling block is "deny yourself and take up your cross."

Your whole post sounds like a confusion between being a Christian and being a disciple.
We are Christians through the new birth.
(A newborn baby doesn't have to ask himself 'am I a human?'
As we grow as Christians our heavenly Father disciplines us, leads and guides us as well as strengthen us.
Once we are His children through the new birth, He doesn't cast us off but keeps dealing with us as His children.
Learn first who you are IN Christ then you will be in a better position to walk in His will.
The Book of Ephesians is great for this.