If I'm an Atheist and I am not a bad person, will I go to hell?

seekingsolace said:

The gift is to all people, it is not pledging allegiance. People make themselves skeptical or ignorant, a person is responsible for their own denial.

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Most people do not have any reason, from their perspective to accept such a gift as likely or true.

Why would a Muslim in Saudi Arabia have reason to prejudice Christianity?

nonbeliever314 said:

If I'm an Atheist and I am not a bad person, will I go to hell?

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If we believe what Jesus said, eternal life is for righteous. If you manage to be righteous atheist, then you get eternal life, if we believe what Jesus told in the Bible.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

It doesn’t sound probable that person who says “God doesn’t exist”, even when he cannot prove that, would be righteous.

I also don’t see how righteous person could say that Jesus is not savior of mankind. I could understand that righteous person says he doesn’t understand or know how that is possible, but saying he is not, is in my opinion heavy claim that doesn’t sound righteous.

It is also interesting that Jesus said that only God is good. Therefore it doesn’t sound very likely that any human is not bad in some way.

Jesus asked him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good, except one-God.
Luke 18:19

Skavau said:

I don't believe in a God(s). There is no choice to me. This is all hypothetical and speculative to me. The objection I have here is that you are endorsing torture and thought-crime all the while calling yourself a citizen of a nation that finds them abhorrent.

It is not surprising thought that to find out underneath it all that you are a nihilist.

Here's a speculative question on that front: If God ordered you to kill someone, would it be right?

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It doesn't matter if you don't believe there is a God. That doesn't excuse you from the truth.
I don't endorse torture. I just believe God. I don't want anyone to go to hell. That is why I am here. You have a choice to make. God doesn't send anyone to hell. People choose hell. You are choosing it right now. You have no right to complain to God when it happens.

Kirsten said:

It doesn't matter if you don't believe there is a God. That doesn't excuse you from the truth.

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It does mean however, that I did not make a choice. That I conclude that God is unlikely to exist based on my understanding of the evidence presented and exposure to argumentation for and against it. I do not, and no-one chooses to go to hell. The idea is complete nonsense.

I don't endorse torture. I just believe God. I don't want anyone to go to hell. That is why I am here.

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Yes you do. If I die tomorrow as a Non-Christian and God sentences me to hell you will endorse my torture as just.

You have a choice to make. God doesn't send anyone to hell. People choose hell. You are choosing it right now. You have no right to complain to God when it happens.

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Belief is not a choice. Belief is a conclusion. I cannot believe 1+1=3 until I am convinced so.

Skavau said:

What evil have I repaid people with? Why do I deserve to be tortured just for "not changing" or not changing in the appropriate way?

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It's more accepting that we do not understand, that the universe is not governed by chance, and ultimately we need some form of divine force. Rejecting that put's reliance on creation rather than creator.

Kirsten said:

It doesn't matter if you don't believe there is a God. That doesn't excuse you from the truth.
I don't endorse torture. I just believe God. I don't want anyone to go to hell. That is why I am here. You have a choice to make. God doesn't send anyone to hell. People choose hell. You are choosing it right now. You have no right to complain to God when it happens.

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God does not order His people to kill anyone. Jesus even went so far as to say that even to hate someone you are guilty of murder. The answer is an emphatic NO. Jesus would never call His people to kill others.

Kirsten said:

God does not order His people to kill anyone. Jesus even went so far as to say that even to hate someone you are guilty of murder. The answer is an emphatic NO. Jesus would never call His people to kill others.

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So murder is objectively wrong to you. You would never murder even if God asked you do so.

Why is murder a red line but torture is not?

nonbeliever314 said:

I don't believe in anything, I only think. I think there is no god, not "believe" there isn't. There is no truth in the Bible at all, or any other religious text for that matter. And when you ask are you willing to risk your eternity, that goes back to my post in here that your religion is based on fear, and that it tries to overcome nihilism by attempting to put meaning and a reason to most things. I will risk it, I already know what it's like to be dead.. I can just imagine what it was like before I was born, nothing. I won't be driven to submission, because there is a supposed divine threat of eternal suffering, I cannot love and fear something absolutely at the same time, it's nonsense. The bible is ancient, and people wrote it I THINK, to keep people in check, and as I said in my other long post, keep people in check in the most subtle, sinister way possible.

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Nonbeleiver, The Bible is the only source of absolute truth. Non-believers cannot understand that truth. Before I became a genuine believer, a Christian, I did not think that the Bible was the truth. Only God Himself can convince you of the truth of His Word, and He will do that for anyone who will earnestly seek after Him. He did that for me and He will do that for you. You will choose your eternity.

Skavau said:

It does mean however, that I did not make a choice. That I conclude that God is unlikely to exist based on my understanding of the evidence presented and exposure to argumentation for and against it. I do not, and no-one chooses to go to hell. The idea is complete nonsense.


Yes you do. If I die tomorrow as a Non-Christian and God sentences me to hell you will endorse my torture as just.


Belief is not a choice. Belief is a conclusion. I cannot believe 1+1=3 until I am convinced so.

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1+1 is always 2. I hope you get it one day.

okmike said:

Please stop making up your own theology. The bible says we are all born sinners. Whether you think you have sinned or not, we have all sinned. Only those who repent and turn to God will be saved. Period. Those who reject Christ will not. Period.

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You believe a child can go to hell? Like I said before it takes god to enlighten a individual that they are a sinner. A child growing up sinning will not send them to hell! If you believe other wise then you are poorly mistaken!

seekingsolace said:

It's more accepting that we do not understand, that the universe is not governed by chance, and ultimately we need some form of divine force. Rejecting that put's reliance on creation rather than creator.

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So that is evil is it?

Who said that I think I know everything about the universe? I don't and have never implied such. You claim to know more about the universe than I do. You claim to have a personal connection with the entity that created it.

Skavau said:

So murder is objectively wrong to you. You would never murder even if God asked you do so.

Why is murder a red line but torture is not?

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Jesus does not order anyone to kill anyone.
God has declared that the wages of sin is death. He makes the rules, not you and not me. It is what it is. I can only suggest you repent.

Kirsten said:

1+1 is always 2. I hope you get it one day.

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You missed my entire argument. I know 1+1=2 and I cannot believe otherwise until I am convinced otherwise.

I hope you get how belief works someday.

nonbeliever314 said:

SOMEONE PLEASE RESPOND TO THIS. I'M COPY AND PASTING IT BECAUSE ITS TOO FAR BACK IN THE THREAD NOW. Here is what I wrote earlier...

First off, I have ears to hear, I heard it, and it is absolutely repulsive that if a generally "good hearted" person (not necessarily saying myself) would burn in hell just because they didn't accept Jesus as their savior. A child in a third world country at this very instant is suffering and dying, and "God forbid" they have never even heard of Jesus, because either they are too young, or it's just not a part of their culture. So their whole life is a living hell, and when that one is over, a new eternal hell begins. That sickens my stomach. AND PLEASE DON'T SAY "OH WELL, GOD WOULD TAKE THEM TO HEAVEN ANYWAY". Christianity, Judaism, and Islam to name a few, rule people by fear. You must absolutely love, and absolutely fear at the SAME TIME the God you hold up so high. You're forced to love a God and accept his son as the savior, not because you want to, but because you have no choice but to, because if you don't, you will suffer for all eternity. In the end there is no other conclusion other than that fear is what drives people to believe. Any reason you give as to why you accept Jesus will ultimately point back to the fear of damnation.

Religions in general, way before Christianity were always there to explain something that people didn't understand, and I find that totally reasonable. But when a religion comes along that attempts to induce total fear in people in the most subtle, sinister way imaginable, that's insane. Instead of a benign belief system, that just says "Hey, the bright light in the sky is [insert name here], that god creates the day", etc. You get one that utterly manipulates people into complete control, through fear, and at the same time makes them think that it's their choice, convinces them it's because some infinitely powerful deity actually "loves" a creation that is infinitely less than itself, and if this creation doesn't "love" it back it will "stick them under a magnifying glass and burn them with sunlight" forever. And lastly, it claims to have the meaning to things that don't necessarily have meaning. It tries to overcome nihilism, at the very least in the existential way.

CGL1023 you don't have to pray for me. Your gesture is appreciated, but at the same time I think (not believe) it is not general act of good will towards me, but a reaction to the deeply rooted fear that you need to be what your God expects you to be. Not praying for me to be saved when you're well aware from my previous post that I will definitely not be unless I have some type of realization would reflect poorly on you in the eyes of your God.

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I don't claim to have answers to all of your questions. As a Christian, I have wrestled with some of the same questions and I will share my thoughts. I would encourage you to read or listen to what others have said on this subject. CS Lewis for example, in "The Great Divorce" addressed some of the issues your are mentioning. Ravi Zacharias writes and speaks at length about the philosophy of religion. His website is rzim.org. He has a podcast that is also broadcast on some radio stations called "Let My People Think" that I recommend.

Back to your questions. Going back to the Garden of Eden when Adam and Eve ate the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, that is where the problem starts. When they ate the fruit, and by extension we were also affected, they became judges of "good and evil" themselves rather than relying on God to tell them what what good and what was evil. So in your opening paragraph you describe a "good hearted" person. That is "good" by your definition, not God's. As far as children going to hell, I think that Jesus addressed that pretty clearly when He said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” Matthew 19:14 So children going to hell really isn't an issue in the Bible as far as I can tell. However, that still leaves people who have never heard of Jesus because they are in a culture that either doesn't allow or hasn't yet heard of Him. I am not a theologian, but here is my take on the subject. First of all, God is just not some mean ogre bent on "sending" people to hell. "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9 People were born and died before Jesus walked the earth so what about them? "For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— to those who were disobedient long ago..." 1 Peter 3:18-20. Hopefully I can explain my reasoning on this clearly. If Jesus preached to those who had died long ago and gave them a chance to choose...wouldn't He do something similar for people today who have never heard? I believe that He is just and that somehow, He has all this worked out. Perhaps He doesn't tell us plainly in the Bible because He wants us (Christians) to have an opportunity to be blessed by ministering to others and sharing our faith. Again, I'm not a theologian, but these are the answers I have come up with in my own wrestlings. I have also heard one story first hand and another second hand, plus countless third hand of individuals in countries that Christianity and/or proselytizing is illegal who God reached when they began seeking "whoever Created all this". One guy was in an Islamic nation and literally learned about Jesus from Encyclopedia Brittanica and then later "bumped into" a missionary. Another man was in communist China and began praying to "something" and later met a missionary who told him the whole gospel. God isn't limited by cultural and political restraints.

As far as the fear tactics, to some degree you have a legitimate beef. I have seen definite fear tactics used to coerce people into accepting Christ. I don't think this is what God intended. God wants us to come to Him voluntarily, not out of coercion. "Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?" Romans 2:4. As I stated in an earlier post, we have free will. I don't think God will force or coerce anyone to go to heaven and worship and fellowship with Him for eternity. However, that said, if you are in a building and the building has a bomb in it and a police officer or fireman comes in and tells you "There is a bomb in this building, please exit immediately" is he using fear tactics? I think that people have the right to know what their choices are, but some preachers go too far and do a lot of arm twisting.

I hope this at least hits on at least some of your questions.

Kirsten said:

Jesus does not order anyone to kill anyone.
God has declared that the wages of sin is death. He makes the rules, not you and not me. It is what it is. I can only suggest you repent.

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Why is murder a red line but not torture? How is torture any better objectively than killing someone?

Skavau said:

So that is evil is it?

Who said that I think I know everything about the universe? I don't and have never implied such. You claim to know more about the universe than I do. You claim to have a personal connection with the entity that created it.

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Why are you making assumptions with no basis?

seekingsolace said:

Why are you making assumptions with no basis?

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What assumption(s)?

Skavau said:

What assumption(s)?

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Who said that I think I know everything about the universe? I don't and have never implied such.
You claim to know more about the universe than I do.
You claim to have a personal connection with the entity that created it.

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These. No such claims were made, read my post carefully please, thank you.