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It's certainly moving that way. Life provides temporary order, but then this is only because we have a net contribution to total disorder.DevotiontoBible said:Does the universe operate in a random, chaotic manner
Yes, but not of the sort you could attribute to an all powerful being. You merely have to look around you to see that there is room for improvement practically every where. It's fairly obvious that we've been designed by circumstance... Natural selection, if you will.or is there a design?
It pumps it into the rest of the body. Why? Because survival of the fittest requires survival for traits to be passed on. If you died, how could you pass on your genes?i.e. does your heart pump blood into a tree or into your liver and why? is it random chance or does it do it for a purpose, a design, in order to cleanse the blood?
I can't imagine any. That's why it doesn't do it.if your heart pumped your blood into a tree what purpose would that serve?
From a physical perspective it's very chaotic. What other perspective is important?you can look at the entire universe and see everthing is not chaotic but has a design.
I could be pedantic here, but I'll let you have that.Your blood flows to your lungs to receive the oxygen given off by trees.
Photosynthesising organisms were here before us. We adapted to the changes in environment caused by oxygen rather than them producing oxygen for us. That's why Eukaryotes took so long to arise; they lacked the oxygen.It is by design that trees feed the air so you can breath their oxygen to feed your blood and not that your blood gets fed into trees.
The design is far better explained by natural selection than by an all powerful creator who produced heavily flawed organisms for the lulz of it. The designer is nature; a powerful but altogether unintelligent entity which lacks the abilities attributed to god.Therefore, in order to have a design you need a designer.
Evolution occuring after changes in environment implies no planning at all.This implies intelligent thought for a design cannot be planned by an accident.
The design of the universe is for life? So why is there so little life in it?Look at the universe and experience Phred, chaos causes destruction but the design of the universe is for life.
The discover of new elements using this method somewhat contradicts your statement.Nothing has ever been made by exploding bombs
And an even more endless supply has not.but an almost endless supply of things have been made by design.
I suggest taking basic chemistry classes, especially ones involving thermodynamics. It may help you get by some of your misunderstandings.The design theory is better science than accidents by random chance theory. Order has a design but, to the contrary, nothing is randomly causing accidents and making order.
FadingWhispers3 said:Does the universe operate in a random, chaotic manner or is there a design?
http://hci.ucsd.edu/102a/readings/Learning%20About%20Life.htm
"Among living systems, there are many examples of decentralized phenomena. As ants forage for food, for example, their trail patterns are determined not by the dictates of the queen ant, but by local interactions among thousands of worker ants. In the immune system, armies of antibodies seek out bacteria in a systematic, coordinated attack--without any "generals" organizing the battle plan. The antibodies are organized without an organizer, coordinated without a coordinator."
Yet again, I strongly suggest reading up on thermodynamics.DevotiontoBible said:Designer does not mean dictator. Even your ants are not randomly floating off into space or exploding accidents but they are each working for a purpose, for a design and that is the survival of the colony. Even your antibodies are working for a design, survival of the organism by destroying the bad bacteria. The ants are not randomly trying to destroy bacteria and neither are anti bodies working for a colony of ants. O-R-D-E-R is the design of the universe not chaos. Chaos cannot cause order, it never has. Why do you want to keep holding onto such a fairy tale as that? If you will accept the fact that everything works by design...for a purpose (not accidents) then you will move toward real science.
DailyBlessings said:Actually, wouldn't the FSM fall under the category of ID? Unless, I suppose, he has no brain.
Make up your mind please. You cannot say there is a design to the universe and say it is also random chance. Either the universe is in order or it is in chaos. It seems obvious you cannot, from a rational mind, admit the universe has no order. But yet you want to hold to the idea that life has no purpose. Why?ThePenguinMafia said:Yes, but not of the sort you could attribute to an all powerful being. You merely have to look around you to see that there is room for improvement practically every where. It's fairly obvious that we've been designed by circumstance... Natural selection, if you will.
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Who says life has no purpse? Maybe an atheist, and not even then in many cases.DevotiontoBible said:Make up your mind please. You cannot say there is a design to the universe and say it is also random chance. Either the universe is in order or it is in chaos. It seems obvious you cannot, from a rational mind, admit the universe has no order. But yet you want to hold to the idea that life has no purpose. Why?
Swing and a miss. He's not saying the universe is designed.DevotiontoBible said:Make up your mind please. You cannot say there is a design to the universe and say it is also random chance. Either the universe is in order or it is in chaos. It seems obvious you cannot, from a rational mind, admit the universe has no order. But yet you want to hold to the idea that life has no purpose. Why?
ThePenguinMafia said:The designer is nature; a powerful but altogether unintelligent entity which lacks the abilities attributed to god.
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ChrisPelletier said:Swing and a miss. He's not saying the universe is designed.
keep up with meGrengor said:Who says life has no purpse? Maybe an atheist, and not even then in many cases.
What makes you think that a universe not created by a God would have to be "random" or "chaotic"? Why does the designer have to be your particular God?DevotiontoBible said:Does the universe operate in a random, chaotic manner or is there a design?
I don't know... its your ridiculous senario, why don't you tell us why our blood doesn't get pumped into trees?DevotiontoBible said:i.e. does your heart pump blood into a tree or into your liver and why? is it random chance or does it do it for a purpose, a design, in order to cleanse the blood? if your heart pumped your blood into a tree what purpose would that serve?
There is plenty of chaos, as well as order. To turn your own argument around, If there is chaos, how can there be a designer?DevotiontoBible said:you ca look at the entire universe and see everthing is not chaotic but has a design. Your blood flows to your lungs to receive the oxygen given off by trees.
Yes, there is a designer, but why must it be intelligent? Why must it be your God's intelligence?DevotiontoBible said:Therefore, in order to have a design you need a designer. This implies intelligent thought for a design cannot be planned by an accident.
No one is saying this but you. You keep confusing natural with random.DevotiontoBible said:Order has a design but, to the contrary, nothing is randomly causing accidents and making order.
How so? the sun is just right to grow trees and give warmth, the atmosphere is just right to protect the earth from too much sun and allow evaporation from the sun to make more rain etc. etc etcThePenguinMafia said:From a physical perspective it's very chaotic. What other perspective is important?
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Hmmmm. The wording seems contradictory to me. Maybe he should clarify his stance. Mr Mafia, do you ascribe to a designer, or that natural selection/evolution is responsible? Or both?DevotiontoBible said:I refer you to his post #22 where he agrees it is designed.
eh?DevotiontoBible said:Make up your mind please.
Natural selection is the complete opposite of random, if that makes things clearer for you.You cannot say there is a design to the universe and say it is also random chance.
It is not perfectly ordered nor is it complete chaos. It is neither and both all at once. It is order moving towards chaos.Either the universe is in order or it is in chaos.
True. Lucky for me I never said that, right?It seems obvious you cannot, from a rational mind, admit the universe has no order.
Why should it have a purpose? Do you know it's purpose? Is there anything to suggest that we have one?But yet you want to hold to the idea that life has no purpose. Why?
Split Rock said:What makes you think that a universe not created by a God would have to be "random" or "chaotic"? Why does the designer have to be your particular God?
I've been perfectly clear. The designer is nature and circumstance; which lacks any form of intelligence and derives change via natural selection. It's more the illusion of design that anything, and can not rationally be called "intelligent".ChrisPelletier said:Hmmmm. The wording seems contradictory to me. Maybe he should clarify his stance. Mr Mafia, do you ascribe to a designer, or that natural selection/evolution is responsible? Or both?
I'm just a little confused as to your use of "designed." Were animals designed by a designer or were they "designed" (i'd use different word choices) by natural selection?
You're doing things backwards again.DevotiontoBible said:How so? the sun is just right to grow trees and give warmth, the atmosphere is just right to protect the earth from too much sun and allow evaporation from the sun to make more rain etc. etc etc
Check the origins of the universe thread for the first bit. I'm a medical student, not a physics grad, and admit to not being able to understand physics to any acceptable degree.DevotiontoBible said:How can something be caused by nothing? Where did you get your intelligence from if the first cause (nature) lacks intelligence in it?
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